The Calvinist-Arminian debate

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Can a person live a perfect life thus not needing the sacrifice of Jesus for salvation?

ask me that one more time...I dare you.....

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

ask me that one more time...I dare you.....

I dare you to answer the question Alan. It is not a difficult question. You are acting like BigJ now by not addressing my question.

Can a person live a perfect life thus not needing the sacrifice of Jesus for salvation?

[alanmolstad]

They who babble on an internet message forum....
I have ZERO patience for them.

Mostly they are people who have a hard time engaging in real conversations.
They can only follow a mental script that they have for how they wish a conversation to go.

The problem is that their mental image is flawed.
Its flawed for while they are prepared to follow it the script, the other doesn't even know there is a script.
Let alone have even the slightest interest in keeping true to it.

The result?

The result sometimes, (many times) is that a frustration builds up with the other person who simply will not follow the script.

So when someone is asked a question and the "wrong" answer is given, the only way some people know how to handle that is to ask the same question again and again......in the hope that somehow the other person will give the only answer allowed by the script.


over and over they ask....

It does not matter a hoot that the answer to the question is given, they ask it again looking for the hope-for scripted answer because then they will know what to ask next.

The ending of this?
The only way to end this is by BANNING.....

Its the only thing that some people can understand.
You have to see things from their point of view...

Getting their **** banned, or BLOCKED is not in their script at all....far from it.

Its the last thing they expect, and so thats why they acted with such poor manners in the first place...
They never expected to be put on Alan's "IGNORE LIST"

That is why when warned that pay no attention to the warning...

But next time?
Oh heck yes!
Next time they will see it coming a mile away, and act accordingly in a manner that diverts away from that possibility.


Billy , you babble.
I have not got the time for it, and you have made it clear you want me to add your name to my IGNORE list....
so be it.
I will do so....

Take care.

[alanmolstad]

building on what I was talking about on my thread....

We have to keep in mind our human and thereby limited point of view when we look at the salvation question.

from our point of view, there is no list of names of the lost and the saved written yet.
its all completely unknown.

No one knows the result of speaking a word to someone here, a message left there...

This means that when we go out into the world to follow the command of the "Great Commission" we do so thinking that the Whole World can be saved!

we do so thinking that that every person can be saved, that none will be lost.

Thats the point in sending us out to the lost world...we are to bring the message that will save it.

But with this Great Commission to save the world, there carries with it the understanding that man can listen, or man can turn away.

thats the problem with human free will....it means that the church can bring the Good news to people and they can just turn away and remain lost....

its up to them.

this human free will gives us the ability to love God, but it also brings with it the idea that we can and will be held to give account for our actions.

Human free will means we are responsible.

[alanmolstad]

Now there are some teachers who believe that man does not have free will.

They hold to the idea that we are powerless to do anything, and are, well, basically soulless robots with the wrong programing in control of our actions.

This is a silly idea.

If we were robots we would not be in need of salvation,..(robots do not sin)

if we did not have free will we could not be held responsible for our actions.
The wind and the rain does not have free will, and so we cant actually blame it's lack of morals for messing up our hair.

You can gauge how much free will humans have by the amount of responsibility we are called to account for.
We look at the bible and find that the result of being found guilty in the Final judgement is eternal hell.

You look at what forever in Hell will be like, and you come away understanding the tremendous amount of free will needed to justify that amount of punishment.