An Opportunity for Russ

[nrajeff]

Originally Posted by Trinity

Before establishing a list of churches with a %, we should mention on which criteria we could base this %.
Trinity

---The churches are free to get together and decide on the criteria. No one is stopping them except themselves.

[Fig-bearing Thistle]

Russ,

It seems as though everything you speak of in regard to your beliefs is tied to the LDS faith in some way. It's almost as if LDS doctrine is the pivot foot for your own beliefs.

I was just asking for a personal reason for your beliefs and your faith. And it would give you credibility of you could try to make your testimony or personal witness stand on its own, rather than relying upon LDS doctrine for it's very definition.

This is your opportunity. We won't make fun of you, even though we may not agree with it. I sincerely would like to know your story.

[Father_JD]

p.s. And your summary of what the Bible says, does nothing to exclude the LDS interpretation of the Godhead, and these 3 divine persons being united in purpose and of one heart and mind.

In reality, it does NOT because you've RE-DEFINED the terms: God, Jesus, Holy Spirit...the meaning of ONE GOD which has been degenerated by Mormonism to mean only "one in purpose".

To be ONE GOD necessarily entails oneness in BEING...way beyond "purpose". The Jews knew only too well what Jesus meant in John 10:30.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

Russ,

It seems as though everything you speak of in regard to your beliefs is tied to the LDS faith in some way. It's almost as if LDS doctrine is the pivot foot for your own beliefs.

Not a pivot foot at all. Rather, a topic of discussion, exposure and examination in continued hope and aspiration that Jesus will enter the lives of Mormons and that the Holy Ghost will be allowed to enter LDS temples.

I was just asking for a personal reason for your beliefs and your faith. And it would give you credibility....

I have plenty, thanks.

... if you could try to make your testimony or personal witness stand on its own, rather than relying upon LDS doctrine for it's very definition.

My personal witness doesn't rely on LDS doctrine for it's own definition.

This is your opportunity.

I take many opportunities to describe Christian beliefs. John 1:1, John 1:14 and Col. 2:9 await your response.

We won't make fun of you, even though we may not agree with it. I sincerely would like to know your story.

You're looking at it right now.

[Father_JD]

Originally Posted by SavedbyTruth

It took the Christian church fathers over 300 years to agree on what they considered ("considered"....NOT "knew") should be the official interpretation of the "godhead". At that time, anyone who didn't agree with them was tossed out.

Your response is incorrect.

SbT

LOL. Well, just how is my response "incorrect"? Typically "Mormon"...empty ***ertions not backed by squat and founded on IGNORANCE of Christian history and the skewed twistings of LD$, Inc.

They KNEW what they believed. They had to codify WHAT they believed in response to Modalism and Arianism (of which Mormonism is merely a variant).

[Father_JD]

The Bible is very clear there are three separate beings in the Godhead.

No, three distinctions...three "persons" but NOT SEPARATE BEINGS. That would be TRI-THEISM, so the Bible sez YOU'RE WRONG.

[Father_JD]

Not once have I EVER been told which is the most perfectly, in-line with the Bible, Christian church.

Duh. Why historic and orthodox ANGLICAN churches are, snowster. Read the 39 Articles of Religion for a succint summary of BIBLICAL DOCTRINE...or if you're really patient, the Westiminster Confession.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Father_JD

Duh. Why historic and orthodox ANGLICAN churches are, snowster. Read the 39 Articles of Religion for a succint summary of BIBLICAL DOCTRINE...or if you're really patient, the Westiminster Confession.

Did you mean Western Minister?

Best Western, as a hotel?

Or did you mean Westminster?

Sorry, good fadda. I only point out misspellings when they make me smile.

Trinity recently called Helen Keller, Helen Killer

I told him that she wasn't a murderer to my knowledge.

[Father_JD]

Just a typo, Russ. Nothing more!

Yes, WESTMINSTER.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Father_JD

Just a typo, Russ. Nothing more!

Yes, WESTMINSTER.

You're obviously not "perfect" yet, fadda.

I, myself, have never camittted any tipo, ever.

When you coming to AZ? :-)

[Father_JD]

Coming to Arizona, Russ? Probably when I make a road trip through AZ on my way to seeing my brother in L.A.!!

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Father_JD

Coming to Arizona, Russ? Probably when I make a road trip through AZ on my way to seeing my brother in L.A.!!

Great!

See you then... next week?

Or, just let me know when you're heading that way. My wife's kids live in Orange Co.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

Russ,

I don't believe I have ever seen a personal affirmation of faith from you. I saw a general one on your website, but it was obviously copied from other websites as I did a quick google search.

Do you have a personal witness or testimony of your faith? And if so, why do you never share it?

Here's your opportunity.

Either we will rip your testimony and your sincere expression of faith to shreds as you watch, ...or we will congratulate you for mustering enough personal courage to share something personal and sacred, even though we may disagree with it.

Lot's of LDS people have opened up to you. Now is your chance to do the same. I'm curious how I and others will respond when or if you do.

It's an invitation, and the ball is in your court.

Thanks.

Did I miss something. I still saw no evidence of this two pages later. I am really wondering where Russ stands with his faith. Where does your faith stand Russ?

I am still waiting for any evangelical, for that matter, from all the postings I have read, to actual state in their own words what they believe and why. I keep hearing talking points, but not anyone's own personal, own words, what they believe, in ways that can be understood, and why.

[SavedbyTruth]

Originally Posted by Russ

I asked if you would worship Jesus as God made manifest in the flesh; the very one and only God of the universe.

Being Mormon, you cannot. Your response reveals such.

Furthermore, you're dodging genuine LDS theology.

If you were to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth regarding LDS theology, you would acknowledge publicly and inform your readers that "Begotten Son of the Father" means God and Mother God "procreated" Jesus, Satan and all of us as spirit-children.

Same old same old from LDS defenders. Just a little bit of the LDS story. (sigh)

Hi Russ,

I just had an epiphany. If the LDS would cite scriptures and the words of others ONLY and not also add their own personal words, you might be able to identify with their responses.

Somehow you are verbally challenged and refuse to see the LDS who respond to you actually have their own thoughts to share in addition to Biblical references. In fact, every LDS is more than happy to share their joy with others. And they are able to use their own words. I find great comfort in that.

Does your church not allow you to speak for yourself?

You are missing so much Russ. I hope your heart is softened some day.

SbT

[Russ]

Originally Posted by SavedbyTruth

Does your church not allow you to speak for yourself?

Exactly!

I only type keystrokes approved by my pastor.

When it comes to driving a car, oy vey, it gets even worse. I can only drive in straight lines, and between the white lines at that. Any turns, left, right, or U, require approval too.

Last week was a real bummer.

I mean, a REAL bummer. You wouldn't believe the predicament.

I had to drive to the store to buy milk. I did the right thing. I took my cell phone with me to make sure that I would have voice contact with the Mother Ship.

I thought for sure the pastor would be in his office to guide me.

I headed out onto the main drag towards the store. I called the pastor at star base Mother Ship to receive authorization to turn left.

The pastor was on vacation!

Can you believe it?!!!

I pulled over to the side of the road, locked the car doors to stay safe, and called for a tow truck.

That was a really, really bad day.

The thinking has been done.

[Pro-Truth]

Originally Posted by Snow Patrol

Fig,

Don't you know that that isn't part of the Christian indoctrination? All they are trained/brainwashed to do is attack and tear down other people's faith and beliefs. I've asked over and over and over for the most perfect Bible believing Christian church out there so that I can investigate and compare their beliefs with mine. Not once have I EVER been told which is the most perfectly, in-line with the Bible, Christian church.

If I were to leave the LDS faith I don't want to waste my time with some "Christian" church only to find out that it is considered heretical or cultish. I want to join up with THE absolute most correct church out there. Since no one has offered up what they believe is the "bestest" Christian church I'm left to think that maybe there isn't one. They are all just "so-so". I've even been told that I don't have to "hook" up with a church at all.

I would also like to encourage Russ, or any other Christian out there, to teach me ALL there is about the gospel they believe in and the faith they have. Maybe they could also inform us which church is the most perfect Biblical Christian church out there.

Thanks

Hi SnowPatrol - nice to see you.

This may be provocative to you: There is absolutely no true Christian "church" on the planet - meaning, no organization, corporation, denomination, non-denominational, nor any building on this planet that is "true" nor the "only true church". None.

There is some good news, though! The only true Church is invisible. Yep! Invisible! In other words, it doesn't contain four walls, a roof, and a floor. The true Church consists of all of the spiritually born again Christians all around the world that have become adopted into the eternal family of God with Jesus Christ as the only High Priest.

So, if you ask: what are church buildings for?

Answer: They exist for the sole purpose to help people come to know the true Jesus Christ so they can hear the Gospel and come to know Him directly, intimately, and personally. The goal is to become born again in Jesus Christ. Once a person is spiritually reborn, they have (present tense) eternal life. Church buildings also are a fantastic place to fellowship with fellow born again Christians and provide for a great resting place from our chaotic world. They also act as an instrument for God to spread the Good News and do philanthropy for giving Him glory (and rightly so).

The key is to come to know Jesus Christ directly, intimately, and personally. To become spiritually reborn (born again) in Jesus Christ. He is the only High Priest and all of the born again Christians all around the world make up the "only true Church".

God is Spirit, right? His "Church" is also; therefore, spiritual.

[SavedbyTruth]

Originally Posted by Russ

Exactly!

I only type keystrokes approved by my pastor.

When it comes to driving a car, oy vey, it gets even worse. I can only drive in straight lines, and between the white lines at that. Any turns, left, right, or U, require approval too.

Last week was a real bummer.

I mean, a REAL bummer. You wouldn't believe the predicament.

I had to drive to the store to buy milk. I did the right thing. I took my cell phone with me to make sure that I would have voice contact with the Mother Ship.

I thought for sure the pastor would be in his office to guide me.

I headed out onto the main drag towards the store. I called the pastor at star base Mother Ship to receive authorization to turn left.

The pastor was on vacation!

Can you believe it?!!!

I pulled over to the side of the road, locked the car doors to stay safe, and called for a tow truck.

That was a really, really bad day.

The thinking has been done.

Wow Russ,

And you think I am lost.

SbT

[Fig-bearing Thistle]

Originally Posted by Russ

My personal witness doesn't rely on LDS doctrine for it's own definition.

I've never seen evidence for that.

Originally Posted by Russ

I take many opportunities to describe Christian beliefs. John 1:1, John 1:14 and Col. 2:9 await your response.

"describe Christian beliefs"?

What about relating your own experience. The reason you find for believing. They reason you are a disciple of Christ. What He has done for you personally? How he has changed you for the better.

All these elements are part of a true Christian's testimony, IMO.

1 Pet. 3: 15
15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

I've never seen evidence for that.



"describe Christian beliefs"?

What about relating your own experience. The reason you find for believing. They reason you are a disciple of Christ. What He has done for you personally? How he has changed you for the better.

All these elements are part of a true Christian's testimony, IMO.

1 Pet. 3: 15
15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

Pay closer attention to 10 years of posts which contrast LDS theology with that of Biblical, historic Christianity.

[Fig-bearing Thistle]

Originally Posted by Russ

Pay closer attention to 10 years of posts which contrast LDS theology with that of Biblical, historic Christianity.

All I really know is what I've read from your past 3 years, Russ. Are you saying that if I go back further, I might find more personal expressions of your 'own' faith, instead of the constant tearing down of another's?

What about today...the here and now?

What about relating your own experience. The reason you find for believing. They reason you are a disciple of Christ. What He has done for you personally? How he has changed you for the better.

All these elements are part of a true Christian's testimony, IMO.

1 Pet. 3: 15
15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

All I really know is what I've read from your past 3 years, Russ. Are you saying that if I go back further, I might find more personal expressions of your 'own' faith, instead of the constant tearing down of another's?

What about today...the here and now?

What about just last month?

http://www.waltermartin.com/forums/showthread.php?t=210

That's a fantastic vs. from I Pet. that you provided. Love it.

Your religion being included in such conversations which disagree that the the LDS church is built on a foundation of Jesus Christ is no doubt distressing for you. I only hope that you'll honestly weigh the evidence. If after reviewing everything you still must remain Mormon, then you that's what you have to do.

The message remains: Jesus is real; He, being God, desires that none should perish (that includes you) and ... Nephites never lived.

[Fig-bearing Thistle]

Originally Posted by Russ

What about just last month?

http://www.waltermartin.com/forums/showthread.php?t=210

Thanks, Russ. That's a start. I'll post what you wrote a month ago here for the benefit of the readers.
****
Russ wrote:
He's forgiven all my sins.

He's accepted me and made me a child of God.

He's given me His own Spirit to guide me and help me through this life.

He's given me the promise of eternal life lived directly in the presence of God.

****

Originally Posted by Russ

That's a fantastic vs. from I Pet. that you provided. Love it.

Thanks, Russ.

I hope your faith will someday be defined by Jesus Christ, instead of being defined by your anti-ism.


Now, regarding the statement that God has forgiven all your sins: Are you saying that God has already forgiven all your present and futures sins too?

[Snow Patrol]

Russ, is the whole gospel to you? If so, why haven't you given ALL of the information?

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

He's forgiven all my sins.

Past, present, and future? So you have a license to sin? Please tell everyone that.

He's accepted me and made me a child of God.

How are you ***ured of that? What evidence can we look at to confirm this? Even though you don't fit in with the intellectual legalistic requirements of believing in the Nicean defined Trinity? You don't fit in when you believe that Jesus is the Father incarnate.

He's given me His own Spirit to guide me and help me through this life.

If God made you a new creation, why do you still sin? And how much can you sin before God questions whether you were truly converted?

He's given me the promise of eternal life lived directly in the presence of God.

Come on Russ, you need to give the whole set of beliefs....He's given me the promise of eternal life lived as a featureless humanoid indirectly in the presence of God since God is alreay omnipresent so there is no "special" location that God exists. Aren't you living in the presence of God right now since supposedly He is living in you and all around you?

[Father_JD]

Originally Posted by mesenja

Does your Bible also inform you which church has Jesus Christ as its head?


Ephesians 5:23


For the husband is the head of the wife,even as Christ is the head of the church:and he is the saviour of the body.

Oh, messy...how many times do you have to be told that Christ's Church is TRANS-DENOMINATIONAL??

Think outside of the Mormon-mind-conditioned "box", dude.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Snow Patrol

"He's forgiven all my sins."

Past, present, and future? So you have a license to sin? Please tell everyone that.

A license to sin would be the heresy known as anti-nomiansim (against the law), which has been denounced long ago.

"He's accepted me and made me a child of God."


How are you ***ured of that? What evidence can we look at to confirm this?

I'm soooo glad you asked that question! Yipee

"I have written these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life."

The ***urance of eternal life comes in that moment when a person knows he's born again.


There are four spiritual laws.

May you find peace that you know your sins are forgiven, past present and future and may you find the ***urance of eternal life through Jesus Christ. Amen.