An Opportunity for Russ

[Snow Patrol]

Originally Posted by Russ

A license to sin would be the heresy known as anti-nomiansim (against the law), which has been denounced long ago.

So, at what point does continuing to sin not become a "license to sin" but rather shows that one wasn't really "born again"?

"He's accepted me and made me a child of God."


How are you ***ured of that? What evidence can we look at to confirm this?


I'm soooo glad you asked that question! Yipee

"I have written these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life."

The ***urance of eternal life comes in that moment when a person knows he's born again.

Ah, so we are supposed to just take your word for it? Where is the evidence. Where is the verifiable proof that is so well loved by BrianH that shows that you were born again?



Here, you must have forgotten about these questions.

He's given me His own Spirit to guide me and help me through this life.

If God made you a new creation, why do you still sin? And how much can you sin before God questions whether you were truly converted?

He's given me the promise of eternal life lived directly in the presence of God.

Come on Russ, you need to give the whole set of beliefs....He's given me the promise of eternal life lived as a featureless humanoid indirectly in the presence of God since God is alreay omnipresent so there is no "special" location that God exists. Aren't you living in the presence of God right now since supposedly He is living in you and all around you?

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Snow Patrol

If God made you a new creation, why do you still sin?

For the same reason you do, Snow.

Original sin. Sin nature.

Paul asked three times that his thorn be taken. God responded "My grace is sufficient for you."

[nrajeff]

Originally Posted by Father_JD

Oh, messy...how many times do you have to be told that Christ's Church is TRANS-DENOMINATIONAL??

--Yeah, that's the mantra you all desperately want to believe--that the artificial big tent that you all agreed includes your favorite churches, just happens to have the exact same boundaries that Jesus Himself would have set if He'd been in charge of drawing them. What are the odds? Nice try, but as Pastor H.E. Fos**** (gotta love that auto-censoring of a Protestant pastor's name) said, If Jesus were to return today and see what p***es for Christianity, He'd wonder whether He Himself were a Christian.

[Snow Patrol]

Originally Posted by Russ

For the same reason you do, Snow.

Original sin. Sin nature.

Paul asked three times that his thorn be taken. God responded "My grace is sufficient for you."

Are you ignoring the rest of my questions? Bulldog from CARM hates it when LDS do that? To bad he isn't here to witness this.

"For the same reason you do?" So are you admitting that I'm saved? I thought you became a new creation in Christ and the old one went away?

[nrajeff]

If God made you a new creation, why do you still sin? And how much can you sin before God questions whether you were truly converted?

--Well, according to the Bible, this is the answer, apparently:

1 John 3:9 (Young's Literal Translation)
9very one who hath been begotten of God, sin he doth not, because his seed in him doth remain, and he is not able to sin, because of God he hath been begotten.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Snow Patrol

Are you ignoring the rest of my questions? Bulldog from CARM hates it when LDS do that? To bad he isn't here to witness this.

"For the same reason you do?" So are you admitting that I'm saved? I thought you became a new creation in Christ and the old one went away?

lol, SNOW! You guys are amazing. From this to that to other topics all around the block. "Are you saying I'm saved?" Where did that come from? (Never mind.)

You asked me why I still sin.

Because of sin nature, the same sin nature which plagues all of us.

It's been fun. Back to Mormonism......

[Snow Patrol]

Actually, I'd like some answers before we move on.....


So, at what point does continuing to sin not become a "license to sin" but rather shows that one wasn't really "born again"?



Ah, so we are supposed to just take your word for it? Where is the evidence. Where is the verifiable proof that is so well loved by BrianH that shows that you were born again?



And how much can you sin before God questions whether you were truly converted?




Come on Russ, you need to give the whole set of beliefs....He's given me the promise of eternal life lived as a featureless humanoid indirectly in the presence of God since God is alreay omnipresent so there is no "special" location that God exists. Aren't you living in the presence of God right now since supposedly He is living in you and all around you?

[Fig-bearing Thistle]

Russ, maybe you missed this, but I asked:

Are you saying that God has already forgiven all your present and futures sins too?

[Fig-bearing Thistle]

Bump.

Russ, maybe you missed this, but I asked:

Are you saying that God has already forgiven all your present and futures sins too?

[Father_JD]

In that gentile Christianity in its worship forms are radically different from 1st Century Jewish practice, I'd say YES, jeff...he'd have a hard time trying to discern the Jewishiness of most churches services.

That MEANS, jeff...Jesus wouldn't recognize ANYTHING from a polytheistic Mormon service!!

[Father_JD]

Originally Posted by nrajeff

--Well, according to the Bible, this is the answer, apparently:

1 John 3:9 (Young's Literal Translation)
9very one who hath been begotten of God, sin he doth not, because his seed in him doth remain, and he is not able to sin, because of God he hath been begotten.

So jeff, how does one harmonize that verse with John's OTHER teaching that "if one says he is without sin, he is a LIAR"??

Now think, jeff...think really hard what John MUST have meant in your "proof-text".

[nrajeff]

Originally Posted by Father_JD

So jeff, how does one harmonize that verse with John's OTHER teaching that "if one says he is without sin, he is a LIAR"??

--Simple:

1. If you say have never sinned, you are a liar because all normal humans, by the time they have reached teen-ager status, will have sinned and therefore are NOT 'without sin.'

2. Those who are TRULY born again and stay that way, STOP sinning.

Conclusion: There are a whole lotta Christians who need to stop claiming they truly have born-again status.

[Snow Patrol]

Originally Posted by Snow Patrol

Actually, I'd like some answers before we move on.....


So, at what point does continuing to sin not become a "license to sin" but rather shows that one wasn't really "born again"?



Ah, so we are supposed to just take your word for it? Where is the evidence. Where is the verifiable proof that is so well loved by BrianH that shows that you were born again?



And how much can you sin before God questions whether you were truly converted?




Come on Russ, you need to give the whole set of beliefs....He's given me the promise of eternal life lived as a featureless humanoid indirectly in the presence of God since God is alreay omnipresent so there is no "special" location that God exists. Aren't you living in the presence of God right now since supposedly He is living in you and all around you?

Bump for Russ.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Snow Patrol

Bump for Russ.

http://www.waltermartin.com/forums/s...=3772#poststop

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

Bump.

Russ, maybe you missed this, but I asked:

Are you saying that God has already forgiven all your present and futures sins too?

http://www.waltermartin.com/forums/s...=3772#poststop

[nrajeff]

Isn't anybody gonna bump for ME? I feel left out.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by nrajeff

Isn't anybody gonna bump for ME? I feel left out.

Okay, bump for you too....



No, I'm bumpin' you.

Uh-uh, bump for you.

Double bumps.

Do I hear three?

Who will give me three?

I now have three, who will give me four?

Do I have four?

Going once, twice, SOLD, to the lady in the polka dot dress in the third row....

[SavedbyTruth]

Originally Posted by Russ

Okay, bump for you too....



No, I'm bumpin' you.

Uh-uh, bump for you.

Double bumps.

Do I hear three?

Who will give me three?

I now have three, who will give me four?

Do I have four?

Going once, twice, SOLD, to the lady in the polka dot dress in the third row....

Russ just used another diversionary tactic!!

[Father_JD]

Originally Posted by nrajeff

--Simple:

1. If you say have never sinned, you are a liar because all normal humans, by the time they have reached teen-ager status, will have sinned and therefore are NOT 'without sin.'

2. Those who are TRULY born again and stay that way, STOP sinning.

Conclusion: There are a whole lotta Christians who need to stop claiming they truly have born-again status.

Almost correct, jeff. Except children SIN long before they're teenagers because we're ALL BORN INTO A SINFUL CONDITION.

Now, we need to look at your second point: You're suggesting that the truly born again will STOP sinning in an absolute way if I'm getting you're drift, right?

Care to clarify??

[Fig-bearing Thistle]

Originally Posted by Russ

http://www.waltermartin.com/forums/s...=3772#poststop

This didn't answer my question.

Are you saying that God has already forgiven all your present and futures sins too?

[Pro-Truth]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

This didn't answer my question.

Are you saying that God has already forgiven all your present and futures sins too?

When a person becomes spiritually born again by Jesus Christ, they become justified before God. Therefore, being justified, a born again Christian's past, present, and future sins are forgiven. So, the answer is yes.

A born again Christian completely byp***es judgment and enters God's eternal Kingdom immediately after their human body dies.

[Fig-bearing Thistle]

Originally Posted by Pro-Truth

When a person becomes spiritually born again by Jesus Christ, they become justified before God. Therefore, being justified, a born again Christian's past, present, and future sins are forgiven. So, the answer is yes.

A born again Christian completely byp***es judgment and enters God's eternal Kingdom immediately after their human body dies.

I'm hoping Russ can answer for himself.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Fig-bearing Thistle

I'm hoping Russ can answer for himself.

Oh, my.

A bit of condescension rears its ugly head.

PT's answer looks good, Biblically speaking.

[nrajeff]

Originally Posted by Father_JD

Almost correct, jeff. Except children SIN long before they're teenagers because we're ALL BORN INTO A SINFUL CONDITION.

---In all likelihood, they sin way before they hit 13, but I gave them the benefit of the doubt.

Now, we need to look at your second point: You're suggesting that the truly born again will STOP sinning in an absolute way if I'm getting you're drift, right?

--I am not suggesting it, I am just quoting what the Bible says.

[Pro-Truth]

Originally Posted by nrajeff

---In all likelihood, they sin way before they hit 13, but I gave them the benefit of the doubt.

Psalm 51:5 clearly teaches that we have sinful nature from birth: "Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me".

--I am not suggesting it, I am just quoting what the Bible says.

There is an enormous difference between having a sinful nature and actually sinning.

A sinful nature is what all human beings have. We are born with it, just as Psalm 51:5 says above. Fortunately, because of Jesus Christ, once a person becomes spiritually born again, their sinful nature is covered by His blood; therefore, making the believer justified before God.

The actual act of sinning is still going to occur whether or not a person is covered by the blood of Christ or not. Think of the blood of Jesus being sort of like putting a band aid on cancer... Sure, the band aid covers the cancer, but, it doesn't mean the cancer isn't still under the band aid.

Once a born again Christian's human body dies, they receive a new glorified spiritual body - a perfect body. With that body, sin is impossible while in Heaven. Our current human bodies need the blood of Christ so we become justified before God - our sinful nature needs to be covered even though our individual sinful nature exists.

Does that make sense?