Biblical and historical reasons why Mitt Romney is not a Christian

[neverending]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Are you using "Christian" in terms of "orthodox Christianity" or Biblical Christianity?

db: Orthodox means to be true, and we as Biblical Christians believe what the Bible teaches. So to me, both are the same. Orthodox believe in the Creeds which I have no problems with, for they are scriptural. The Creeds always speak of ONE God, not many. They also believe Christ's atonement was given totally on the cross, not part in the Garden and the rest on the cross as LDS do.

[Sir]

Originally Posted by neverending

They also believe Christ's atonement was given totally on the cross, not part in the Garden and the rest on the cross as LDS do.

Here is a perfect example of what I stated in this thread already. Critics add to the requirements of what it takes to be considered a Christian. Here, neverending is claiming that one MUST believe that the atonement happened TOTALLY on the cross.

Does the Bible say this? No.

Here is God according to the critics here:

God: "Do you believe in the atonement of Jesus Christ?"

MC (mainstream Christian) & LDS: "Yes"

God: "That is good, for the power of my Son's atonement is the power unto salvation." "Where did it happen?

MC: "On the cross."

LDS: "Both on the cross and in the garden."

God: "MC, go to Heaven. LDS, go to Hell."

[neverending]

Originally Posted by Sir

Here is a perfect example of what I stated in this thread already. Critics add to the requirements of what it takes to be considered a Christian. Here, neverending is claiming that one MUST believe that the atonement happened TOTALLY on the cross.

Does the Bible say this? No.

Here is God according to the critics here:

God: "Do you believe in the atonement of Jesus Christ?"

MC (mainstream Christian) & LDS: "Yes"

God: "That is good, for the power of my Son's atonement is the power unto salvation." "Where did it happen?

MC: "On the cross."

LDS: "Both on the cross and in the garden."

God: "MC, go to Heaven. LDS, go to Hell."

Read Romans 5:11 please but know that Christ SHED his blood on the cross. In the Garden it says, his sweat was as it were, great drops of blood. An elephant is as it were a camel, capable of carrying heavy loads. An elephant is not a camel, and blood is NOT sweat!

[Sir]

Originally Posted by neverending

Read Romans 5:11 please but know that Christ SHED his blood on the cross. In the Garden it says, his sweat was as it were, great drops of blood. An elephant is as it were a camel, capable of carrying heavy loads. An elephant is not a camel, and blood is NOT sweat!

(I thought you had me on ignore)??

Anyway, regardless of the blood/ sweat thing, that still doesn't answer to why you have added to the litmus test that one MUST believe it was TOTALLY on the cross to be a Christian.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by neverending

db: Orthodox means to be true, and we as Biblical Christians believe what the Bible teaches.

No you don't. And you won't fare very well in any attempt to match your salvational doctrines up with the Biblical NT.

Any religion claiming that there is not the first obedience to Jesus Christ for His grace unto life has little in common with the Biblical NT.

[neverending]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

No you don't. And you won't fare very well in any attempt to match your salvational doctrines up with the Biblical NT.

Any religion claiming that there is not the first obedience to Jesus Christ for His grace unto life has little in common with the Biblical NT.

db: please show me where the Bible teaches that I must first have obedience to Jesus before I can be saved. John 3:16 doesn't say anything about obedience, it just says, "that whosoever BELIEVES...." nothing about obedience. Also, "for all have sinned and fallen short" Romans 3:23. ALL means ALL, not just a few but ALL...that includes YOU dberrie. God's free gift of salvation is available to anyone who so desires to believe in Him, and salvation to me is not resurrection but Eternal Life! LDS have several types of salvation so when you're discussing with a Christian, you now know what we mean when salvation is mentioned. The LDS hide the meanings from the unsuspecting convert, why do you have to do that?

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by neverending

db: please show me where the Bible teaches that I must first have obedience to Jesus before I can be saved.

Hebrews5:9--"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;"

John 3:16 doesn't say anything about obedience, it just says, "that whosoever BELIEVES...." nothing about obedience.

Please do show where obedience to Jesus Christ is not an integral component of belief.

Whenever one sees terms such as belief, faith, trust, etc--obedience to Christ is understood as an integral component.

For example:

Term--house

Integral components: roof, walls, foundation, windows, etc.

Word term: car

Integral components: Engine, transmission, seats, wheels, etc.

Word term: belief

Integral components: trust, obedience, following Christ, faith, etc.

James2:26--"For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."

Also, "for all have sinned and fallen short" Romans 3:23. ALL means ALL, not just a few but ALL...that includes YOU dberrie. God's free gift of salvation is available to anyone who so desires to believe in Him, and salvation to me is not resurrection but Eternal Life!

Me also. When I state salvation--that means eternal life.

Yes, I sin. And that is the reason God has given us repentance and water baptism:

Acts2:38--"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

If Eternal Life were free--why was everyone commanded to repent and be baptized for the remission of sins?

Eternal Life, as an opportunity is a free gift to all men--but the personal reception of Life is dependent upon obedience to Jesus Christ for His grace unto life.

1 John1:7--"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."

LDS have several types of salvation so when you're discussing with a Christian, you now know what we mean when salvation is mentioned. The LDS hide the meanings from the unsuspecting convert, why do you have to do that?

I'm not hiding anything--when we talk about salvation--eternal life is my point. Why would I "hide" any other meaning?

[neverending]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Hebrews5:9--"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;"



Please do show where obedience to Jesus Christ is not an integral component of belief.

Whenever one sees terms such as belief, faith, trust, etc--obedience to Christ is understood as an integral component.

For example:

Term--house

Integral components: roof, walls, foundation, windows, etc.

Word term: car

Integral components: Engine, transmission, seats, wheels, etc.

Word term: belief

Integral components: trust, obedience, following Christ, faith, etc.

James2:26--"For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."




Me also. When I state salvation--that means eternal life.

Yes, I sin. And that is the reason God has given us repentance and water baptism:

Acts2:38--"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

If Eternal Life were free--why was everyone commanded to repent and be baptized for the remission of sins?

Eternal Life, as an opportunity is a free gift to all men--but the personal reception of Life is dependent upon obedience to Jesus Christ for His grace unto life.

1 John1:7--"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."




I'm not hiding anything--when we talk about salvation--eternal life is my point. Why would I "hide" any other meaning?

db: your last sentence is not true! There are many terms LDS use for salvation. Your doctrines teach a general salvation which is given to ALL men because that is only resurrection. You also teach in a personal salvation or individual or conditional and you call it, exaltation. This salvation comes by grace PLUS baptism plus works. Talmadge says in your Articles of Faith, "Redemption from personal sins can ONLY be obtained through obedience to the requirement of the Gospel and a life of good works." Now think about the thief of the cross as he was dying. Thank God, Christ was there and not Mr. Talmage, or the thief would have been forever lost. This man never did anything good or why would he be called a thief but he DID BELIEVE in Christ and nothing else. No works, no baptism, just belief!

This obedience idea comes only from your doctrines. To be saved requires one thing; BELIEF in Christ. Again, John 3:16. And answer me this, who is EVER obedient? Who EVER does good? We are all sinners so we will fail at some point no matter how hard we try to be a good person....it is part of our sin nature which we can not change. If you fails in ONE POINT, YOU ARE GUILTY OF ALL! (James 2:10) Even ONE failure will condemn you or I but having been saved through the SHED blood of Jesus Christ, I now have been wrapped in His righteousness and that is what God will see when someday I stand before Him. My wish is for all LDS to understand this concept and be saved. God bless and have a good day today.

[Sir]

Originally Posted by neverending

db: please show me where the Bible teaches that I must first have obedience to Jesus before I can be saved. John 3:16 doesn't say anything about obedience, it just says, "that whosoever BELIEVES...." nothing about obedience.

Taht's it? All you have to do is believe? Even the devil believes. And here, too, is this sleight of hand, where the critic says, "The Bible only says to believe and you are saved, nothing about obedience." THe LDS then respond that they believe in Jesus. Then the critic then starts the litnay of conditions, qualifications, and variables that are also required in order to claim you believe in the right Jesus.

The LDS hide the meanings from the unsuspecting convert, why do you have to do that?

The critics hide the meaning of "believe in Jesus" and do not reveal all of the other details that they claim are required for salvation. Why do you have to do that?