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Thread: Biblical and historical reasons why Mitt Romney is not a Christian

  1. #151
    Administrator Jill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    Jill's comments that Jesus Christ's father was the Holy Ghost is foreign to the Biblical text.

    "Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost." Matt 1:18

    "Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost." Matt 1:20
    How great is the love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God. 1 John 3:1

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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    The sections from the Bible are scripture. Jeffrey's other words are simply his opinions. BTW Jeffery comes across as angry. Did you get that vibe from him?
    No, I did not get anger from him. Interesting that you did. So---then, as members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, it is up to us to pray about the words of the apostle (or sometimes the spirit just witnesses as you listen) and come to a decision regarding the truth of it.

    Now, was it mandatory that Christ suffer alone for our atonement---was that just an opinion? That is up for you to decide between you and God.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    Jill's comments that Jesus Christ's father was the Holy Ghost is foreign to the Biblical text.

    The Bible makes this claim--that Jesus Christ was the Only Begotten Son of God the Father. He never makes the claim that the Holy Ghost was His Father.

    If you or anyone else on this forum has a Biblical p***age where Jesus Christ makes any claim that God the Father really isn't His father--or where the Holy Ghost is His father--then please print it.

    St John20:17-"Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God."
    db: Have you read where it says in Matt. 1:18, "Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost." How can one agrue with this very verse as it is clear to me that Mary begot Christ through the power of the Holy Ghost. And since the Holy Ghost is a member of the Godhead, then we also have to accept that Christ was begotten by God the Father too, begotten by both for they are ONE God.
    There are somethings within the story of Christ that we can't fully understand, this being one of them but we must say that He also had a part in the creation of his physical body. When Christ said, "God is spirit", that included himself too. Yes, I know that this concept is difficult to realize but try and think on it.

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    No, I did not get anger from him.
    He seems so angry. You don't get that from him at all?

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    Now, was it mandatory that Christ suffer alone for our atonement---was that just an opinion?
    Do you mean that there was only one savior and not two? Or are you asking about the part when Christ says "why have you forsaken me"? I am not sure what you are really asking?

  6. #156
    Administrator Jill's Avatar
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    We're getting off-topic here. The discussion is about why Mitt Romney is not a Christian based on historical and biblical proofs.

    Talking about Jesus does not make you a Christian or there wouldn't be a history of Christians defending biblical doctrine against HERESY stretching back 2000 years. Heretics talked about Jesus all the time and even said some interesting things...but their talk was false teaching because their definitions were not biblical.

    The heart of the matter is that Christians have defined Christianity consistently for 2000 years based on the Bible, and just talking nice about Jesus does not make you a Christian. Which Jesus are you talking about? Which God? What definition are you using?

    Joseph Smith Jr. made up his own definitions, and that is why Mormonism is not Christian.
    How great is the love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God. 1 John 3:1

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    The point is that Brigham Young never put his stamp of approval on the Journal of Discourses, nor did the other prophets and apostles. If they had, the Journal of Discourses would have been cannonized as scripture. That is a point that seems to keep going over your head--not sure why.
    Uh, I think it's gone over your head, BigJulie.

    Brigham Young

    "I know just as well what to teach this people and just what to say to them and what to do in order to bring them into the celestial kingdom...I have never yet preached a sermon and sent it out to the children of men, that they may not call Scripture. Let me have the privilege of correcting a sermon, and it is as good Scripture as they deserve. The people have the oracles of God continually." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 13, p. 95)

    "I am here to answer. I shall be on hand to answer when I am called upon, for all the counsel and for all the instruction that I have given to this people. If there is an Elder here, or any member of this Church, called the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, who can bring up the first idea, the first sentence that I have delivered to the people as counsel that is wrong, I really wish they would do it; but they cannot do it, for the simple reason that I have never given counsel that is wrong; this is the reason." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 16, p. 161)

    "I say now, when they [his discourses] are copied and approved by me they are as good Scripture as is couched in this Bible . . . " (Journal of Discourses, vol. 13, p. 264; see also p. 95).
    How great is the love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God. 1 John 3:1

  8. #158
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    Julie,
    I watched the video.....Holland came across quite humble as he spoke of the Savior. My problem is this, Christ leads HIS Church today......HE promised he would never leave us nor forsake us. There is NO NEED for apostles or your self proclaimed prophet who has NEVER prophesized about anything, nor has his performed miracles of any kind. NO! He is only a figure head running a corporation, not a church. Is this what Christ would have wanted for HIS Church? Christ didn't care about money, he cared about making disciples and sending those disciples out into the world to preach HIS gospel, not the LDS made up gospel, which is another gospel spoken in Gal. 1:8-9, "But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under Godís curse! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under Godís curse!" That is how strongly God feels about anyone preaching anything other than what Jesus taught. Mormonism is under this curse for your doctrines do not follow what Christ taught; your apostles are fake and do nothing but give lip service for they know that Mormonism is a lie but they love the money, power and prestige it alllows them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jill View Post
    "Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost." Matt 1:18

    "Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost." Matt 1:20
    Amen ! and Amen ! Jill.

    How is it that the Mormon Tabernacle Choir can sing those beautiful Christmas hymns of the Christian Faith , and yet the mormons reading this website do not know the verses that you posted ?

    The L.D.S. folks reading this need to break open a Bible and turn over to Matthew 1 , and read it. Next , Luke chapter 1 and 2 . Plain as day folks. That's why your parents sent you to school - so you could learn to read. Mary asks the Angel Gabriel some questions. Open the Bible and see the words for yourself.

    Jill ; You posted the correct answer and it is what I was going to use as a reply after a L.D.S. member quoted and posted to me. { page 3 iirc. }

    I was trying to "cool down" before I went on a full ****n rant. My blood pressure almost spiked reading the disgusting blasphemy that these modern-day mormons are posting on this Thread. They are advocating physical incest between God the Father with a young jewish girl in the Dividic family line. They have bought into the filth of Joseph Smith's adulterous mindset. His Deputy - Brigham Young added onto the mental sludge of Joseph Smith with his statements which you correctly posted from his sermons ( Discourses ).

    Shameless blasphemy.
    Last edited by Decalogue; 11-09-2011 at 08:47 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    He seems so angry. You don't get that from him at all?
    Not at all---sorrowful, sad--in pain, but not angry.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jill View Post
    Uh, I think it's gone over your head, BigJulie.

    Brigham Young

    "I know just as well what to teach this people and just what to say to them and what to do in order to bring them into the celestial kingdom...I have never yet preached a sermon and sent it out to the children of men, that they may not call Scripture. Let me have the privilege of correcting a sermon, and it is as good Scripture as they deserve. The people have the oracles of God continually." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 13, p. 95)

    "I am here to answer. I shall be on hand to answer when I am called upon, for all the counsel and for all the instruction that I have given to this people. If there is an Elder here, or any member of this Church, called the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, who can bring up the first idea, the first sentence that I have delivered to the people as counsel that is wrong, I really wish they would do it; but they cannot do it, for the simple reason that I have never given counsel that is wrong; this is the reason." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 16, p. 161)

    "I say now, when they [his discourses] are copied and approved by me they are as good Scripture as is couched in this Bible . . . " (Journal of Discourses, vol. 13, p. 264; see also p. 95).
    All from the Journal of Discourses--which you know was not written by Brigham Young, right? Your argument becomes circular if you rely on the Journal of Discourses to prove the validity of the Journal of Discourses as scripture. Clearly, one can observe that we do not use the Journal of Discourses as our scripture and that makes the point alone.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Decalogue View Post
    Amen ! and Amen ! Jill.

    How is it that the Mormon Tabernacle Choir can sing those beautiful Christmas hymns of the Christian Faith , and yet the mormons reading this website do not know the verses that you posted ?

    The L.D.S. folks reading this need to break open a Bible and turn over to Matthew 1 , and read it. Next , Luke chapter 1 and 2 . Plain as day folks. That's why your parents sent you to school - so you could learn to read. Mary asks the Angel Gabriel some questions. Open the Bible and see the words for yourself.

    Jill ; You posted the correct answer and it is what I was going to use as a reply after a L.D.S. member quoted and posted to me. { page 3 iirc. }

    I was trying to "cool down" before I went on a full ****n rant. My blood pressure almost spiked reading the disgusting blasphemy that these modern-day mormons are posting on this Thread. They are advocating physical incest between God the Father with a young jewish girl in the Dividic family line. They have bought into the filth of Joseph Smith's adulterous mindset. His Deputy - Brigham Young added onto the mental sludge of Joseph Smith with his statements which you correctly posted from his sermons ( Discourses ).

    Shameless blasphemy.
    No--this filth was not brought in by us, but first by your "filth"y mind and second by Billyray and others. What we have said is that we don't know how Christ is the Son of God, the only begotten Son of God---but we know that He is the Son of God.

    How do you describe Christ being the Son of God? Do you, like Billyray, see this as just more a figure of speech than real?

    And while Matthew states that Mary's child was of the Holy Ghost---Christ himself clearly states that He is not the Son of the Holy Ghost, but of the Father.

    We are all waiting patiently for Jill to point us to the scripture where Christ declares Himself the Son of the Holy Ghost.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jill View Post
    We're getting off-topic here. The discussion is about why Mitt Romney is not a Christian based on historical and biblical proofs.

    Talking about Jesus does not make you a Christian or there wouldn't be a history of Christians defending biblical doctrine against HERESY stretching back 2000 years. Heretics talked about Jesus all the time and even said some interesting things...but their talk was false teaching because their definitions were not biblical.

    The heart of the matter is that Christians have defined Christianity consistently for 2000 years based on the Bible, and just talking nice about Jesus does not make you a Christian. Which Jesus are you talking about? Which God? What definition are you using?

    Joseph Smith Jr. made up his own definitions, and that is why Mormonism is not Christian.
    Yes, Jill, but the real irony is that not that many years ago, you would have killed on account of your heresy--so I find it almost laughable that someone who belongs to a Protestant religion who reads the Bible in English sees herself as defending "christianity"--as those who came before you who saw themselves as doing the same would see you as the heretic.

    As I said, you are just one in a long line of many who have done the same all thinking that they know best.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Decalogue View Post
    Amen ! and Amen ! Jill.

    How is it that the Mormon Tabernacle Choir can sing those beautiful Christmas hymns of the Christian Faith , and yet the mormons reading this website do not know the verses that you posted ?

    The L.D.S. folks reading this need to break open a Bible and turn over to Matthew 1 , and read it. Next , Luke chapter 1 and 2 . Plain as day folks. That's why your parents sent you to school - so you could learn to read. Mary asks the Angel Gabriel some questions. Open the Bible and see the words for yourself.

    Jill ; You posted the correct answer and it is what I was going to use as a reply after a L.D.S. member quoted and posted to me. { page 3 iirc. }

    I was trying to "cool down" before I went on a full ****n rant. My blood pressure almost spiked reading the disgusting blasphemy that these modern-day mormons are posting on this Thread. They are advocating physical incest between God the Father with a young jewish girl in the Dividic family line. They have bought into the filth of Joseph Smith's adulterous mindset. His Deputy - Brigham Young added onto the mental sludge of Joseph Smith with his statements which you correctly posted from his sermons ( Discourses ).

    Shameless blasphemy.

    Dec: All I can say to you is AMEN! And my blood pressure spikes every time I come here. What a vile thing to say about how our Savior came to be......totally disgusting! No wonder they have no comp***ion about our Savior's death if they can speak about his conception like they do. They don't give any real thought to what Hell is all about. Mormon's concept of Hell is not being allowed to progress and not being in god's presence, so anything short of exaltation would be Hell to them. They do not believe in the Lake of Fire even though it is written right there in Revelations. I don't want to see anyone face eternity being cast into that nightmarish place. Thank you for your comment and God bless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by neverending View Post
    Dec: All I can say to you is AMEN! And my blood pressure spikes every time I come here. What a vile thing to say about how our Savior came to be......totally disgusting! No wonder they have no comp***ion about our Savior's death if they can speak about his conception like they do. They don't give any real thought to what Hell is all about. Mormon's concept of Hell is not being allowed to progress and not being in god's presence, so anything short of exaltation would be Hell to them. They do not believe in the Lake of Fire even though it is written right there in Revelations. I don't want to see anyone face eternity being cast into that nightmarish place. Thank you for your comment and God bless.
    All I see is a bunch of critics of the LDS faith chasing windmills--making up their own fantasies regarding our beliefs and then being repulsed by them. *sigh*
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    -making up their own fantasies regarding our beliefs
    BigJ I don't think quoting from your own leaders is making up fantasies. Do you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    BigJ I don't think quoting from your own leaders is making up fantasies. Do you?
    It is when those quotes are taken out of context away from our understanding and scriptures and something that is recognized today as not supported by scriptures--but merely discussion.

    Jill and the rest of you would have the rest of the world believing that we go to church and use the Journal of Discourses and Bruce R. McConkies "Mormon Doctrine" as our scriptures. We don't. They are discussed very little and often only a small tidbit might be recited when something said supports the scriptures and our current understanding.

    As I said this dialogue---this is meant to sensationalize my beliefs and the best guess I can come up with someone doing this is the same reason Christopher Hitchens writes his books and essays---because there is a paranoid "christian/republican right' out there that will believe anything sensational and it makes money. Just look at how worked up people are getting just on this site alone. The truth of our religion is far more boring.

    As a note: The Kingdom of the Cults (now in the vicinity of some 750000 copies sold ), and Walter Martin has written many other books against many religions. Jill maybe can answer what happened to the money made from these books? Was it all donated to a '"church"--which church, etc?
    Last edited by BigJulie; 11-09-2011 at 09:35 PM.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    No--this filth was not brought in by us, but first by your "filth"y mind and second by Billyray and others. What we have said is that we don't know how Christ is the Son of God, the only begotten Son of God---but we know that He is the Son of God.

    How do you describe Christ being the Son of God? Do you, like Billyray, see this as just more a figure of speech than real?

    And while Matthew states that Mary's child was of the Holy Ghost---Christ himself clearly states that He is not the Son of the Holy Ghost, but of the Father.

    We are all waiting patiently for Jill to point us to the scripture where Christ declares Himself the Son of the Holy Ghost.

    BJ, what you just said to Decalogue is reportable! And as for how Christ came to be conceived, it WAS by the Holy Ghost as it says in Matt. This is your problem for NOT understanding the trinity. God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, all three in ONE GOD! Not three beings in purpose as your doctrines teach. If you don't like what the Bible teaches, that again is your problem and is sad. You can fall back on your Article of Faith that lets you off the hook with saying, "as long as its translated correctly." I will say again, ALL THREE of the Godhead were involved in the conception of Christ. Christ helping to create his own physical body. If Jesus is the Christ and is God, then there should never be any argument, for his word is true....God does not lie, at least mine doesn't but what about yours?

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    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by neverending View Post
    BJ, what you just said to Decalogue is reportable! And as for how Christ came to be conceived, it WAS by the Holy Ghost as it says in Matt.
    Yes, but the details of this are left out. The only thing is that we know is that this conception resulted in the birth of the Son of the Father--not of the Holy Ghost.

    This is your problem for NOT understanding the trinity. God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, all three in ONE GOD!
    Then why does Christ distinguish the Father from the Holy Ghost or even the Son when declaring who His Father is?

    Not three beings in purpose as your doctrines teach.
    This concept is not only taught of the Godhead, but also of the marriage of a man and a woman where they become "one."

    If you don't like what the Bible teaches, that again is your problem and is sad. You can fall back on your Article of Faith that lets you off the hook with saying, "as long as its translated correctly."
    I do like what the Bible says---but even when you all post the long list of translations, it becomes obvious that to understand it, one must have access to the Holy Ghost.

    I will say again, ALL THREE of the Godhead were involved in the conception of Christ.
    All three? I suppose if I was saying that as a Mormon, you would come up with a way to sensationlize that and put you "filthly" spin on it too.

    Christ helping to create his own physical body. If Jesus is the Christ and is God, then there should never be any argument, for his word is true....God does not lie, at least mine doesn't but what about yours?
    Christ helping to create his own body? Okay--so, now lets talk real stuff here. As Christ was fully man, where did the extra 23 chromosomes come from that make him a man? Are they the same as with Adam who was created, but is not begotten?
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    All I see is a bunch of critics of the LDS faith chasing windmills--making up their own fantasies regarding our beliefs and then being repulsed by them. *sigh*

    BJ: I'd like you to CFR just one thing, just one doctrine of yours that can be supported by the Bible. As for making up fantasies, those are your own with belief in JS, a false prophet. Your fantasy in a belief in a false god, and Jesus Christ! I know what the LDS teach about how Mary conceived Christ. It was taught to me that it happened just as it does for men and women, having intercourse. That is what is vile and disgusting. That is what is repulsive and it is not our fantasy, blame your own leaders for their vile ideas....they're not ours.

    Your own Prophet Benson said this concerning the conception of Christ, "
    • President Ezra Taft Benson stated, "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints proclaims that Jesus Christ is the Son of God in the most literal sense. The body in which He performed His mission in the flesh was fathered by that same Holy Being we worship as God, our Eternal Father. Jesus was not the son of Joseph, nor He begotten was by the Holy Ghost. He is the Son of the Eternal Father!" (Benson, p. 4). (Encyclopedia of Mormonism, Vol. 2, p. 725, 1992; The Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p. 7)
      Ancient and modern scriptures use the ***le Only Begotten to emphasize the divine nature of Jesus Christ. Latter-day Saints recognize Jesus as literally the Only Begotten Son of God the Father in the flesh (John 3:16; D&C 93:11; Moses 6:52). This ***le signifies that Jesus' physical body was the offspring of a mortal mother and of the eternal Father (Luke 1:35, 1 Ne. 11:18). It is LDS doctrine that Jesus Christ is the child of Mary and God the Father, "not in violation of natural law but in accordance with a higher manifestation thereof" (Jesus The Christ, James E. Talmage, p. 81; Encyclopedia of Mormonism, Vol.2, page 729)
      These name-***les all signify that our Lord is the only Son of the Father in the flesh. Each of the words is to be understood literally. Only means only; Begotten means begotten; and Son means son. Christ was begotten by an Immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers. (Mormon Doctrine, Bruce R. McConkie, p. 546-547)

    • God the Father is a perfected, glorified, holy Man, an immortal Personage. And Christ was born into the world as the literal Son of this Holy Being; he was born in the same personal, real, and literal sense that any mortal son is born to a mortal father. There is nothing figurative about his paternity; he was begotten, conceived and born in the normal and natural course of events, for he is the Son of God, and that designation means what it says. (ibid, p. 742)

      What say you now? Are these Christian fantasies? NO! It is your leaders who have made Christ's conception a vile and disgusting thing. And Pres. Benson denying what is written in the Bible is more proof of how off your leaders are when it comes to anything written in God's word. Your Bible is Chinese for you can choose from column A, or B or C, for the things that only support your doctrines, anything else is excluded. Either you accept what is written within the pages of the Bible or DON'T have it as one of your standard works!

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    [quote=BigJulie;101973]
    Yes, but the details of this are left out. The only thing is that we know is that this conception resulted in the birth of the Son of the Father--not of the Holy Ghost.

    Then why does Christ distinguish the Father from the Holy Ghost or even the Son when declaring who His Father is?

    This concept is not only taught of the Godhead, but also of the marriage of a man and a woman where they become "one."

    I do like what the Bible says---but even when you all post the long list of translations, it becomes obvious that to understand it, one must have access to the Holy Ghost.

    All three? I suppose if I was saying that as a Mormon, you would come up with a way to sensationlize that and put you "filthly" spin on it too.

    Christ helping to create his own body? Okay--so, now lets talk real stuff here. As Christ was fully man, where did the extra 23 chromosomes come from that make him a man? Are they the same as with Adam who was created, but is not begotten?

    BJ: I don't find your thoughts to be rational! You insult me by accusing me of putting a "filthy spin on Christ's conception? That is in your mind......and I have no issue with how Christ was conceived. We know that Mary was overshadowed by the "Holy Spirit". It is you and your leaders that have made it into some filthy thing, making it incestuous! I have already shared with you the very comments made by Pres. Benson who came right out and said that Christ was conceived literally like a man and woman conceive a child. This is FACT! Try and disclaim it.

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    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by neverending View Post

    BJ: I don't find your thoughts to be rational! You insult me by accusing me of putting a "filthy spin on Christ's conception? That is in your mind......
    No, that is in YOUR mind---you project your filth onto what you think are my beliefs.
    and I have no issue with how Christ was conceived. We know that Mary was overshadowed by the "Holy Spirit".
    Yes, I agree. But the details of how the Mary's egg was fertilized to impregnate Mary, we do not know. I have stated this many times---it is you who want to insist that we believe something more.

    It is you and your leaders that have made it into some filthy thing, making it incestuous!
    Nope, you again. Now, if someone wants to discuss this or think sex was involved (which we have no scripture regarding)---I don't think of sex as a bad or disgusting thing. Do you?

    I
    have already shared with you the very comments made by Pres. Benson who came right out and said that Christ was conceived literally like a man and woman conceive a child. This is FACT! Try and disclaim it.
    I haven't seen the quote, but regardless,

    ... just for good measure, I will repeat this quote: (Oh, I just saw the quote--nothing of it says what you think it does---it basically speaks to the fact that Jesus Christ is the begotten Son of God the Father which means he shares physical attributes and is the Son of God the Father. This does not state how He is the Son, but that He is the Son.)

    Critics of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints sometimes proclaim that the LDS believe that God had sex with Mary, resulting in the conception of Jesus. This is simply not true. While some members of the Church may have speculated concerning the conception of Jesus, the Church has never had a teaching concerning this event. This can easily be seen in a letter written by President Harold B. Lee to a brother in Logan, Utah. The letter is reproduced below. An edited version is also quoted in The Teachings of Harold B. Lee (Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1996), 14.

    http://www.fairlds.org/Misc/Did_God_...with_Mary.html
    Last edited by BigJulie; 11-09-2011 at 10:15 PM.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  23. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by neverending View Post
    [What say you now? Are these Christian fantasies?
    Yes, they appear to be fantasies. Please highlight and quote which part you think states
    "They are advocating physical incest between God the Father with a young jewish girl in the Dividic family line.
    In all the quotes you gave--I don't see it. So, yes this seems to be the result of YOUR filthy mind, not mine.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  24. #174
    dberrie2000
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    Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    Jill's comments that Jesus Christ's father was the Holy Ghost is foreign to the Biblical text.

    The Bible makes this claim--that Jesus Christ was the Only Begotten Son of God the Father. He never makes the claim that the Holy Ghost was His Father.

    If you or anyone else on this forum has a Biblical p***age where Jesus Christ makes any claim that God the Father really isn't His father--or where the Holy Ghost is His father--then please print it.

    St John20:17-"Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God."

    Quote Originally Posted by neverending View Post
    db: Have you read where it says in Matt. 1:18, "Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost." How can one agrue with this very verse as it is clear to me that Mary begot Christ through the power of the Holy Ghost.
    And I believe the scriptures are clear that we become children of God through the power of the Holy Ghost--but nowhere does it say that the Holy Ghost is our father, or we are sons of the Holy Ghost.

    Jesus Christ did not ever claim the Holy Ghost as His Father, but He did claim that God the Father was.

    How do you reconcile that? Was God the Father and the Holy Ghost the same personage?

    I'm trying to understand the idea that the Holy Ghost is the Father of Jesus Christ--and Jesus was the Son of the Holy Ghost.

    And since the Holy Ghost is a member of the Godhead, then we also have to accept that Christ was begotten by God the Father too, begotten by both for they are ONE God.
    But not the same personage, even if what you state is true.

  25. #175
    dberrie2000
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    Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    Jill's comments that Jesus Christ's father was the Holy Ghost is foreign to the Biblical text.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jill View Post
    "Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost." Matt 1:18

    "Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost." Matt 1:20
    And just where in that scripture does it state that Jesus was the Son of the Holy Ghost--or the Holy Ghost was His Father?

    I believe the scriptures state we are all conceived as children of God through the Holy Ghost--but that does not mean our Father is the Holy Ghost.

    So--question for you--where do you find that Jesus claimed He was the Son of the Holy Ghost? Surely He would know?

    Do you believe that God the Father and the Holy Ghost are the same personage?

    Why would you distinguish Mitt Romney as non-Christian for believing that Jesus Christ was the Son of God the Father, which was the claim of Jesus Christ Himself?

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