Biblical and historical reasons why Mitt Romney is not a Christian

[neverending]

Originally Posted by Libby

Who gave you the authority to p*** final judgment on anyone?? Certainly, not the Savior. Final judgment is God's, alone.

These things are said because they are TRUE! History has shown us the kind of man JS was....a necromancer, wife stealer which made him an adulterer, vandal when he and a mob broke into the Expositor newspaper office and destroyed it by breaking the type and worst of all, traitor to this great country by calling out for Mormons to join his militia and fight againt the State of Missouri; the LEGAL State Militia. Are these signs of a godly man, a prophet of God?? No, he never lived any kind of life worthy to call himself a prophet. His prophesies failed, so he was a FALSE PROPHET! If even on prophesy didn't come to p***, then that man should not be listened to. These are the many issues that we as Christians here have tried and tried to show the LDS that they follow an ungodly man, a self-proclaimed prophet. It was all a scam, for he learned much from his father who also was a great con artist, lying to neighbors and searching for buried treasure he told these neighbors was there on their properties but we know nothing was EVER found.
Matt. 7:16, "You shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?" JS's fruits were rotten!

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by neverending

Matt. 7:16, "You shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?" JS's fruits were rotten!

While you go through your list of what you think Joseph Smith or what his life was---anyone can take a look at the church today, the people that adhere to its principles and what it stands for. To me, it represents a people who are devoted to God and thereby doing good, famly oriented as well as believing in hard work and kindness. That is my experience. Those are the fruits of the life of Joseph Smith I witness.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

While you go through your list of what you think Joseph Smith or what his life was--

Lying and having a relationship with a 14 year old girl when you are 38 are not high in my book of endearing qualities.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Lying and having a relationship with a 14 year old girl when you are 38 are not high in my book of endearing qualities.

I'll tell you what, you can stay focused on the trash you think you have dug up from the past and I will continue to look at the fruit of today and what is happening today in the church.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

I'll tell you what, you can stay focused on the trash you think you have dug up from the past and I will continue to look at the fruit of today and what is happening today in the church.

BigJ these are facts about Joseph. Character does matter especially for a person who claims to be a true prophet of God. Sometimes truth hurts.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

BigJ these are facts about Joseph. Character does matter especially for a person who claims to be a true prophet of God. Sometimes truth hurts.

Read the OT sometimes and tell me what you think.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Read the OT sometimes and tell me what you think.

What part did you have in mind?

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

What part did you have in mind?

I don't know---how about where the donkey does the correcting?

Read the D&C and see how many times Christ calls on Joseph Smith to repent. Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons) understand that Joseph Smith is not a perfect man. We also understand he is the prophet of the restoration of the gospel of Christ and when we follow the gospel of Christ, we see great fruits.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

. . . (Mormons) understand that Joseph Smith is not a perfect man. . . .

Why not?

1. You are commanded to keep all of the commandments all of the time

2. God doesn't command you to do something that you cannot do.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Why not?

1. You are commanded to keep all of the commandments all of the time

2. God doesn't command you to do something that you cannot do.

We are commandment to love the God with all of our heart, mind, and soul. Do you disagree? If you agree, what does that mean to you?

What does santification mean to you?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

We are commandment to love the God with all of our heart, mind, and soul. Do you disagree? If you agree, what does that mean to you?

What does santification mean to you?

I am happy to answer your questions if you want but this forum is really about your beliefs not mine.

Originally Posted by Billyray

1. You are commanded to keep all of the commandments all of the time

2. God doesn't command you to do something that you cannot do.

Do you believe points 1 and 2 above?

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

I am happy to answer your questions if you want but this forum is really about your beliefs not mine.

I was trying to understand your idea of sanctification because we believe it is a process that will take this lifetime and the next. We believe if our faith was perfect, we would be able to do all things God commands us (such as Peter walking on water.) But faith and obedience leads to more faith and more obedience which we call santification. That is why I asked you about what you believe about santification--not to talk about your faith, but to answer questions about mine. So, Billyray, you have already said that your faith is not perfect---therefore, how does your faith become perfect?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

So, Billyray, you have already said that your faith is not perfect---therefore, how does your faith become perfect?

I don't think I will ever have "perfect" faith in this life. As far as sanctification I have given you this in the past multiple times but I will be happy to give it to you again. This is a process where a person becomes more and more Christ like over time.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

I don't think I will ever have "perfect" faith in this life. As far as sanctification I have given you this in the past multiple times but I will be happy to give it to you again. This is a process where a person becomes more and more Christ like over time.

How does this happen? According to you? How does a person "become more and more Christ like over time"?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

How does this happen? According to you? How does a person "become more and more Christ like over time"?

Through the work of the Holy Spirit.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Through the work of the Holy Spirit.

I agree--and through the work of the Holy Spirit does one do more and more that Christ commands and does that strengthen their faith as they see the "fruits" of their labor?

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by Billyray

I don't think I will ever have "perfect" faith in this life.

Then how much faith is required for salvation?

As far as sanctification I have given you this in the past multiple times but I will be happy to give it to you again. This is a process where a person becomes more and more Christ like over time.

But that is the same claim the LDS have. They believe it is line upon line in obedience to Christ also.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Then how much faith is required for salvation?

What is required? That I place my faith in Christ to save me.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

But that is the same claim the LDS have. They believe it is line upon line in obedience to Christ also.

1. Do you believe that you should obey all of the commandments all of the time?

2. Are you capable of do so?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by theway

I'm sorry I must have missed that definition of a Christian.

Would you OK with me calling myself a Mormon even though I don't believe in the tenets of Mormonism?

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Would you OK with me calling myself a Mormon even though I don't believe in the tenets of Mormonism?

What are you asking? Are you asking if it would be okay to call yourself a Mormon is you don't live by the teachings of Mormonism?

Can you call yourself a Christian if you don't live by the teachings of Christ and think that just saying you believe or have faith is enough?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

What are you asking? Are you asking if it would be okay to call yourself a Mormon is you don't live by the teachings of Mormonism?

If I don't believe/teach/live by the teachings of Mormonism would it be OK to call myself a Mormon?

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

If I don't believe/teach/live by the teachings of Mormonism would it be OK to call myself a Mormon?

No, but by that standard, you should not be calling yourself a Christian either.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

We believe if our faith was perfect, we would be able to do all things God commands us. . .

1 Nephi 3: 7 . . . for I know that the Lord giveth no bcommandments unto the children of men, save he shall prepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commandeth them.

This verse says that you can keep the commandments because God does not give you a commandment that you can't keep.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

1 Nephi 3: 7 . . . for I know that the Lord giveth no bcommandments unto the children of men, save he shall prepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commandeth them.

This verse says that you can keep the commandments because God does not give you a commandment that you can't keep.

Yes---but God understands this is a process called sanctification as we learn to be perfect in Him.