Biblical and historical reasons why Mitt Romney is not a Christian

[Decalogue]

[QUOTE=BigJulie;104059]

Decalogue---your dialogue sounds like it comes from the Salem witch hunts. "...your helping out the Evil one..." Oh brother.

You do not know when to keep quiet do you ? { Or , in this case , when to keep your fingers away from the keyboard. }

Your proper response after reading my post above , would have been for you to do some self-examination . Some soul-searching.

Ask some questions about Joseph Smith's "First Vision Account". Instead of trying to defend Mormonism by insulting Christianity , and hacking away at the words of Holy Scripture , ask yourself why a supposed Angel of "God" would tell fibs about the Christian Churches , when Jesus Christ himself said that "... The gates of Hell will not stand against his Church...."

--- What you should do is like I said before ---> ask/write/call the headquarters building in Salt lake City and ask the Bigshots how many Corporation Board-of-Directors seats that they sit on ? How much money do they make ... while making fun of biblical Christian Pastors for getting paid by their local congregations ?

As for "Salem witch hunts' ... well , the Bible tells us that there were witches and practioners of 'evil' stuff in Bible times , and there are today people who still do that. Look in the mirror . It is you and the mormons on this Board that are doing the will of your "father" , and according to Scripture --- that 'father" is The Evil One. Only the Devil hisself could have invented L.D.S. mormonism.

It is mormonism that teaches that Joseph Smith must be professed as a "Prophet-of-God" before you can get into the Celestial heaven.

Biblical Christianity says that the ONLY way to get to Heaven is by repentance from sin and faith in Jesus Christ ! John 14:6 !

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by Decalogue

Biblical Christianity says that the ONLY way to get to Heaven is by repentance from sin and faith in Jesus Christ ! John 14:6 !

Even that is a partial truth:

Acts2:38--"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

The faith alone have a really difficult time with that one--do they not?

[BigJulie]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Decalogue

You do not know when to keep quiet do you ? { Or , in this case , when to keep your fingers away from the keyboard. }

I don't even know what to say to this.

As for "Salem witch hunts' ... well , the Bible tells us that there were witches and practioners of 'evil' stuff in Bible times , and there are today people who still do that. Look in the mirror . It is you and the mormons on this Board that are doing the will of your "father" , and according to Scripture --- that 'father" is The Evil One. Only the Devil hisself could have invented L.D.S. mormonism.

Yes, I am sure if I lived during the time of the Salem witch trials, you would have burned me at the stake.

Maybe if I had lived 160 years earlier, you would have tarred and feathered me, and been part of the mob sent to "exterminate" the Mormons.

I guess here, you will just have to tell me when to keep quiet. *sigh*

[Novato]

[QUOTE=Decalogue;104173]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

You do not know when to keep quiet do you ? { Or , in this case , when to keep your fingers away from the keyboard. }

Your proper response after reading my post above , would have been for you to do some self-examination . Some soul-searching.

Ask some questions about Joseph Smith's "First Vision Account". Instead of trying to defend Mormonism by insulting Christianity , and hacking away at the words of Holy Scripture , ask yourself why a supposed Angel of "God" would tell fibs about the Christian Churches , when Jesus Christ himself said that "... The gates of Hell will not stand against his Church...."

--- What you should do is like I said before ---> ask/write/call the headquarters building in Salt lake City and ask the Bigshots how many Corporation Board-of-Directors seats that they sit on ? How much money do they make ... while making fun of biblical Christian Pastors for getting paid by their local congregations ?

As for "Salem witch hunts' ... well , the Bible tells us that there were witches and practioners of 'evil' stuff in Bible times , and there are today people who still do that. Look in the mirror . It is you and the mormons on this Board that are doing the will of your "father" , and according to Scripture --- that 'father" is The Evil One. Only the Devil hisself could have invented L.D.S. mormonism.

It is mormonism that teaches that Joseph Smith must be professed as a "Prophet-of-God" before you can get into the Celestial heaven.

Biblical Christianity says that the ONLY way to get to Heaven is by repentance from sin and faith in Jesus Christ ! John 14:6 !

I don't respond much these days to the illiterate ravings of your ilk, however, when I read the unverifiable nonsense you have written here I am prompted to give some form of reply.

The real key here is that the true Gospel was never meant to be found within "biblical Christianity" . The only way to Truth is through the Holy Ghost's witness.

No LDS member would claim that the BoM is the only way to Truth, it is as imperfect as the Holy Bible because it is also the work of men.

Novato

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by Novato

I don't respond much these days to the illiterate ravings of your ilk, however, when I read the unverifiable nonsense you have written here I am prompted to give some form of reply.

The real key here is that the true Gospel was never meant to be found within "biblical Christianity" . The only way to Truth is through the Holy Ghost's witness.

No LDS member would claim that the BoM is the only way to Truth, it is as imperfect as the Holy Bible because it is also the work of men.

Novato

Just one correction here--this was the post of Decalogue--not Julie--whom the post was credited to.

[Libby]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Just one correction here--this was the post of Decalogue--not Julie--whom the post was credited to.

Yeah, the software has been glitchy like that. I noticed it in some of my posts and others.

Edit: Btw, I agree with Novato that scripture cannot replace a real experience of God.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Libby

Yeah, the software has been glitchy like that. I noticed it in some of my posts and others.

Edit: Btw, I agree with Novato that scripture cannot replace a real experience of God.

I also agree that scripture is for the purpose of teaching us how to reach God---scripture is not there to replace God.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

I also agree that scripture is for the purpose of teaching us how to reach God---scripture is not there to replace God.

Yet the scripture is God word. And because God changes NOT.. The scripture then is the same now as it has always been and reflects the salvation of God as He first explained it.. Because it is His word it is as dependable as if he were standing before us telling us of Himself and his ways to our face.. IHS jim

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Yet the scripture is God word. And because God changes NOT.. The scripture then is the same now as it has always been and reflects the salvation of God as He first explained it.. Because it is His word it is as dependable as if he were standing before us telling us of Himself and his ways to our face.. IHS jim

Yes, agree--the Bible is God's word---but anybody paying attention can see that the way the Bible has been read or what is meant by it has changed over the years which is why the Journal of Jewish Studies has an article which states that the belief that creation came from nothing is a belief that was influenced by Islam and Christianity after the death of Christ and is not historically a Jewish belief.

It is also why Catholism changed to Protestantism, etc.

[Libby]

Bibliolatry vs believing in Christ by Marcus Borg

http://afreshperspective-chuck.blogs...e-as-lens.html

Excerpt:

One semester, a very bright Muslim engineering student took the course. A senior, he did so because he needed another humanities course for graduation and the cl*** fit his schedule. One day, after witnessing Borg’s interaction with the more conservative students, he said to him, “I think I understand what’s going on. You’re saying the Bible is like a lens through which we see God, and they’re (the inerrantists) saying that it’s important to believe in the lens.”

That is a good ****ogy. When I am asked if I believe the Bible my response is: As a Christian I believe (I trust in) in Jesus of Nazareth, the living Christ who is my Lord. I use the Bible as a means to nurture a transformative relationship with God, whom I know through Jesus. The Bible is a lens through which I see God and Jesus.

Good article.

I like Borg. He makes a lot of sense.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Yes, agree--the Bible is God's word---but anybody paying attention can see that the way the Bible has been read or what is meant by it has changed over the years which is why the Journal of Jewish Studies has an article which states that the belief that creation came from nothing is a belief that was influenced by Islam and Christianity after the death of Christ and is not historically a Jewish belief.

It is also why Catholism changed to Protestantism, etc.

Please show where the meaning of the scripture has been changed in any way.. I deny that it has, there is no proof I have ever seen that confirms such a denial of the promises of Jesus.. Such a statement is akin to saying that the Church was ever abandon by God and allowed to be lost to the world.. For Jesus made a promise that His word (And He is God so all the Bible is His word) would never p*** away, and that He would be with us until the very end of the age. How can a church deny that the promises of Jesus were kept and still call it's self a Christian church? More PROOF that mormonism is NOT Christian..

You again use the knowledge and wisdom of men to show your anti Christ teaching that Jesus was nothing but a liar. A Journal of Jewish studies is just that the opinions of mere men.. The Bible says that Jesus made all things visible and invisible, things that are in heaven, and that are in earth, thrones, dominions, principalities, and powers: all things were created by Him, and for Him (Col 1:16).. What is there that exists that is not included in ALL things? So go ahead and use your references from the heart of mere men. I will rely on His word.. IHS jim

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Libby

Bibliolatry vs believing in Christ by Marcus Borg

http://afreshperspective-chuck.blogs...e-as-lens.html

Excerpt:



Good article.

I like Borg. He makes a lot of sense.

Yes you would like someone that removed the powers of God from the Lord Jesus.. After all He isn't the only God in your mind We are all just as much God as he was right? This is why I doubt your salvation, your membership in His Church.. IHS jim

[BigJulie]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Please show where the meaning of the scripture has been changed in any way.. I deny that it has, there is no proof I have ever seen that confirms such a denial of the promises of Jesus

The proof can be seen in history that while the words of the Bible remain the same, how they are understood has changed. Do you still do infant baptism? Do you still have a bishop come confirm you with the Holy Ghost? These are all part of the Catholic church and yet, it has changed. Likewise, now we have some who believe that baptism means of the spirit only and not of water while others believe that the Biblical text supports woman pastors and others do not, etc. etc. etc.

..

Such a statement is akin to saying that the Church was ever abandon by God and allowed to be lost to the world.. For Jesus made a promise that His word (And He is God so all the Bible is His word) would never p*** away, and that He would be with us until the very end of the age.

Actually, Christ's comment is that not one jot or ***tle of the law shall p*** away that they won't be fulfilled--acknowledging that the transcribers have not been perfect or read perfectly, but He will not forget what He has said. The proof of this can be seen in those transcribers denying Him as Jesus Christ. They wrote the law, but they did not comprehend the law. They had lost the living WORD for the word.

[Libby]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Yes you would like someone that removed the powers of God from the Lord Jesus..

He hasn't done that, James. That would be impossible.

[Libby]

They had lost the living WORD for the word.

Yes, exactly.

[Decalogue]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Yet the scripture is God word. And because God changes NOT.. The scripture then is the same now as it has always been and reflects the salvation of God as He first explained it.. Because it is His word it is as dependable as if he were standing before us telling us of Himself and his ways to our face.. IHS jim

James --- Amen ! Isaiah 40:8

Not one jot nor ***le ... Matthew 5:18

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Decalogue

James --- Amen ! Isaiah 40:8

Not one jot nor ***le ... Matthew 5:18

Actually--learning Hebrew, I can definitely attest that one jot or ***tle has been lost from the scriptures we have today, but they have not been lost to God; and that is the point.

Do you realize that there are words that have a vav instead of a jot and do you know that the Torah has both the vav and the jot (prints the word) twice because it is not known which one is right? (And it is from this, that we get our other translations.)

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Please show where the meaning of the scripture has been changed in any way..

Anyone who has a religion that teaches that there is no obedience to Jesus Christ necessary for His grace unto salvation has not only changed the meaning of the scriptures--they have revised them to fit the very design of satan himself.

I deny that it has, there is no proof I have ever seen that confirms such a denial of the promises of Jesus.. Such a statement is akin to saying that the Church was ever abandon by God and allowed to be lost to the world..For Jesus made a promise that His word (And He is God so all the Bible is His word) would never p*** away, and that He would be with us until the very end of the age.

When you refer to "us"--would that be the Catholics, the Lutherans, the Baptists--who?

How can a church deny that the promises of Jesus were kept and still call it's self a Christian church?

And how can one read the Bible and get out of it that God had dozens of different denominations teaching conflicting doctrines without the foundation of the living apostles of Christ? Just where do you find that in the Bible NT?

[Decalogue]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Do you realize that ...

Do you not realize that you just keep talking yourself into a Christless eternity ?

I mentioned Matthew 5:18 --- spoken by The Lord Jesus Himself... and true to your L.D.S. upbringing , you have just called The King of Kings a liar.

Choose this day whom ye shall serve !

The Blessed Messiah who was nailed to a cross to pay for your sins , or will you continue to follow the lies of a of a blasphemer , water-witcher and buried treasure digger and serial adulterer ?!?

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Decalogue

Do you not realize that you just keep talking yourself into a Christless eternity ?

I mentioned Matthew 5:18 --- spoken by The Lord Jesus Himself... and true to your L.D.S. upbringing , you have just called The King of Kings a liar.

Choose this day whom ye shall serve !

The Blessed Messiah who was nailed to a cross to pay for your sins , or will you continue to follow the lies of a of a blasphemer , water-witcher and buried treasure digger and serial adulterer ?!?

I am not calling Christ a liar at all---just realizing that you misintrepret His words. His point is that HE knows what He has said regardless of the accuracy of the recording. In fact, based on what I have learned regarding the "jots" and "vavs"---Christ's words ring all the more true.

[Mesenja]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

I am going to ask all of the Mormon posters on here--and any poster for that matter, to read 2 Timothy chapter 2. In fact,it is good to read all of 2 Timothy--then pray about it and decide if you still want to post here.

Jill wants to define our faith in Jesus Christ for us. She wants to define Mitt Romney's faith for him. I say, let us all act according to what we read and pray about and act on that.

2 Timothy 2:16-17 But shun profane [and] vain babblings:for they will increase unto more ungodliness. And their word will eat as doth a canker...

And I hope that those who vote for our president,do so with prayer.

Yes it's truly frightening

“There is nothing more frightful than ignorance in action.” Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Mesenja

Yes it's truly frightening

What is truly frightening?

[Mesenja]

Here's a good article BigJulie

Mormons not Christian? That's a fallacy of equivocation Published:Thursday,Oct. 20,2011 5:00 a.m. MDT By Daniel C. Peterson,For the Deseret News

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Mesenja

Here's a good article BigJulie

Here is a quote.

"Critics often accuse us of deceptively claiming to be traditional Christians, and puzzled outsiders sometimes ask why we claim to be Christians while rejecting certain doctrines and traditional creeds."


We know that you guys don't claim to be traditional Christians. Why would you because you believe in different gods, a different gospel, and you believe that you can become a god which is foreign to traditional Christianity.

[Libby]

I read that article awhile back. It's a good one. I always read Dr. Peterson's articles. They're almost always insightful.

Excerpt:

After endorsing Rick Perry at the "Values Voter Summit" earlier in October, Baptist pastor Robert Jeffress defended his denunciation of Mormonism with a pretty typical specimen of equivocating language: Mitt Romney, he said, is "not a Christian" because he "doesn't embrace historical Christianity."

His denunciation presumes, falsely, that "Christianity" and "historical Christianity" (the Christianity defined at Nicea and other councils) are synonymous, and that to reject the latter entails rejecting the former, too.