Biblical and historical reasons why Mitt Romney is not a Christian

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

I have no idea what sin they have committed but I know that the Bible says that we all sin and fall short of the glory of God and that we all need the atonement in order to be saved.

I know, and God saves the faithful---but how is it a newborn has faith?

Is this why you have stated in the past, you are not sure what happens to the newborn and whether they go to heaven or hell?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

I know, and God saves the faithful---but how is it a newborn has faith?

God can save an infant without faith if he so chooses because that infant isn't old enough to make a decision for Christ. But Christians don't make this claim because it is not spoken about in the Bible.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

God can save an infant without faith if he so chooses because that infant isn't old enough to make a decision for Christ. But Christians don't make this claim because it is not spoken about in the Bible.

Precisely why God provides prophets---so that this rediculous notion of a newborn sinning and whether or not they go to heaven or hell can be put to rest.

You know, it is amazing, because it is there in the Bible for you to understand--but just as you resist the question regarding the water droplet, you resist the truth.

P.S. At this point, I expect you will change the subject.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

You know, it is amazing, because it is there in the Bible for you to understand--

The verses about David's son touch on this but other than that please tell me where this is found in the Bible?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Precisely why God provides prophets---

You have a prophet today? What prophesies has he given you?

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

The verses about David's son touch on this but other than that please tell me where this is found in the Bible?

We already have.

1Cr 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

We already have.

1Cr 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

ESV Study Bible
1 Cor. 15:22 in Adam all die. See Rom. 5:12, 14–15, 17; Eph. 2:1, 5. in Christ shall all be made alive. See Rom. 5:17, 21; 6:4; Eph. 2:5–6. By divine appointment, Adam represented the whole human race that would follow him, and his sin therefore affected all human beings. Similarly, Christ represented all who would belong to him, and his obedience therefore affected all believers (see note on 1 Cor. 15:23).

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

You have a prophet today? What prophesies has he given you?

2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

Prophets don't just give prophecies, they also help us (as Holy Men) understand the scriptures so that we don't walk away misinterpreting them thinking that babies have sinned and may or may not go to hell.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

So no prophesy is that what you are saying? Then why call him a prophet?

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

ESV Study Bible
1 Cor. 15:22 in Adam all die. See Rom. 5:12, 14–15, 17; Eph. 2:1, 5. in Christ shall all be made alive. See Rom. 5:17, 21; 6:4; Eph. 2:5–6. By divine appointment, Adam represented the whole human race that would follow him, and his sin therefore affected all human beings. Similarly, Christ represented all who would belong to him, and his obedience therefore affected all believers (see note on 1 Cor. 15:23).

Yes, Billyray, you have made it clear that your understanding of both your own Bible and your beliefs regarding our beliefs come from commentaries rather than the scriptures themselves. You have also made it abundantly clear that you don't seek the Holy Ghost to understand scriptures which is why you believe newborns sin and may go to hell.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

. . .why you believe newborns sin and may go to hell.

Just so you know that my personal BELIEF is that they don't go to hell. But I don't make claims that I can't back up with scripture.

BTW what do you think that it means to be IN Christ? Do you think that those who don't follow Christ are IN Christ?

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Just so you know that my personal BELIEF is that they don't go to hell. But I don't make claims that I can't back up with scripture.

BTW what do you think that it means to be IN Christ? Do you think that those who don't follow Christ are IN Christ?

As I noted above--time for you to change the subject (as you have done). And as I said, God is not silent on newborns.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

As I noted above--time for you to change the subject (as you have done). And as I said, God is not silent on newborns.

What verse do you base that on?

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

What verse do you base that on?

This is the problem with only relying on commentaries to understand the Bible. When you do not rely on the Holy Ghost, then you become lost and even the scriptures that explain it, you do not see. You also resist answering questions regarding such things as the water droplet as it may lead you on a path to softening your heart and understanding. I can't help you see what you choose not to see Billyray.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

I can't help you see what you choose not to see Billyray.

Read the verses starting at verse 1 until you come to your proof text and then tell me what this section of scripture is all about. Also identify for me which verse is speaking specifically about infants.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

When you do not rely on the Holy Ghost,

Every time you use that phrase I can expect a perversion of what the verses actually say.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Read the verses starting at verse 1 until you come to your proof text and then tell me what this section of scripture is all about. Also identify for me which verse is speaking specifically about infants.

I'll tell you what. Instead of me or Dberrie or any of the others continuing to answer your "unlearned' questions, why not go back and soften your heart and say---hey, this doesn't make sense--why would God call a baby a sinner and say only the faithful (which a baby cannot be) be saved and yet, since you can clearly see that an infant is wonderful and special and hmmm, what did Christ say "suffer the children to come unto me, for of such is the kingdom of heaven." Why not pray and ask God in the name of Jesus Christ and by the power of the Holy Ghost to help you. But let me tell you this Billyray, as long as you remain prideful, you will NOT receive an answer.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

why would God call a baby a sinner and say only the faithful (which a baby cannot be) be saved

Can you quote my post where you think that I made the claim that a baby CAN'T possibly be saved?

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
All infants are born saved--due to the work of the Savior.

Originally Posted by Billyray

Without the sacrifice of Jesus could a baby go to heaven? Or would that baby be condemned? If so why?

No person, regardless of age--could enter into heaven without the work of the Savior.

The reason being--there was no resurrection until the Savior conquered death, and the doors of eternal life was shut to mankind due to sin.

All were condemned due to the Fall. Which is exactly what the scriptures state:

Romans5:18--"Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life."

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Why not pray and ask God in the name of Jesus Christ and by the power of the Holy Ghost to help you.

I have and he has directed me out of the false doctrines of Mormonism.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

All were condemned due to the Fall.

Including infants. So why is a baby condemned?

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Can you quote my post where you think that I made the claim that a baby CAN'T possibly be saved?

You stated that infants are sinners. Which means there has to be a way to deliver that infant as a sinner.

If indeed you believe that infants are sinners--what delivers them as sinners?

For those who have reached the age of reason--they can have faith in Christ. An infant cannot. They do not understand any such principle.

So--if they die--what delivers them as sinners?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Romans5:18--"Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life."

That is correct. We are all condemned. And those who place their faith in Christ will be justified and saved. For children who are unable to make a decision because of their immaturity I trust Christ that he will save them--but I don't have a verse to prove that.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Including infants. So why is a baby condemned?

Billyray--you have started your circling patterns.

I'll tell you what--please give any quote of mine that states that infants are condemned since the Atonement--and we will go from there.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Billyray--you have started your circling patterns.

Because your position doesn't make sense.

What prevents a baby from returning to God without the atonement if there is nothing wrong with that individual baby?