Biblical and historical reasons why Mitt Romney is not a Christian

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Libby

I read that article awhile back. It's a good one. I always read Dr. Peterson's articles. They're almost always insightful.

"Critics often accuse us of deceptively claiming to be traditional Christians"

Libby do you think this statement Danny is insightful or deceptive?

[Libby]

Originally Posted by Billyray

"Critics often accuse us of deceptively claiming to be traditional Christians"

Libby do you think this statement Danny is insightful or deceptive?

It's truthful. It's very common for Christians to accuse Mormons of trying to "appear" mainstream. There is often talk about how the church deceives people by trying to look like "traditional" Christianity.

But, the bottomline is that Mormonism gets rejected by some, in traditional Christianity, based on criteria and standards from traditional Christianity, which LDS have never claimed. That does not, however, exclude LDS from the broader umbrella of Christianity.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by Billyray

"Critics often accuse us of deceptively claiming to be traditional Christians"

Libby do you think this statement Danny is insightful or deceptive?

Just a note here. When one states "traditional" or "orthodox" Christianity--that has to be defined in order to reflect a correct relationship of meaning.

That is usually a meaning that reflects the commonly accepted beliefs of Christianity today--not Biblical Christianity.

Sects such as faith alone cannot match their theology with Biblical Christianity, but they are accepted as the orthodox or traditional state of Christianity.

What is taught and practiced within the Biblical NT--the LDS hold in common those doctrines. The faith alone do not.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

What is taught and practiced within the Biblical NT--the LDS hold in common those doctrines.

Like temple marriage?

Like becoming a god?

Like working your way to heaven?

Like a temple for the NT church?

Like Aaoronic and Melchizedek priesthood among members of the NT church?

Like a mother in heaven?

Like you being the brother of Jesus and Satan?

Etc.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Libby

It's truthful. It's very common for Christians to accuse Mormons of trying to "appear" mainstream. There is often talk about how the church deceives people by trying to look like "traditional" Christianity.

The whole reason that Christians say that Mormons are not Christian is because they don't resemble any of the mainstream Christian churches and doctrine.

[Libby]

Originally Posted by Billyray

The whole reason that Christians say that Mormons are not Christian is because they don't resemble any of the mainstream Christian churches and doctrine.

That's not really true. There are plenty of parallels. Some Christians just do not wish to acknowledge them.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Libby

That's not really true. There are plenty of parallels. Some Christians just do not wish to acknowledge them.

Come on Libby who do you think you are kidding?

If Mormonism was close to Christianity then Christianity would welcome them but they don't and the reason they don't is because Mormonism teaches a completely different gospel and a completely different god.

[Libby]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Come on Libby who do you think you are kidding?

If Mormonism was close to Christianity then Christianity would welcome them but they don't and the reason they don't is because Mormonism teaches a completely different gospel and a completely different god.

Did I say anything about being "close" to traditional Christianity?? You do have a way of twisting words, Billy. That's not a good thing.

I said, there are some parallels...and there ARE. LDS follow and believe in the same Jesus in the Bible that you do...the Jesus who was born in Bethlehem and who suffered and died on Calvary..(whether you want to acknowledge that or not). Same Jesus, with some different beliefs about him.

[Libby]

If Mormonism was close to Christianity then Christianity would welcome

Many conservative Christians don't even accept Catholicism as "Christian", Billy. Some are, notoriously, very narrow in their definition of Christianity.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Libby

Many conservative Christians don't even accept Catholicism as "Christian", Billy.

And how many Christians accept Mormons as fellow Christians?

And why is that do you think?

[Libby]

Originally Posted by Billyray

And how many Christians accept Mormons as fellow Christians?

And why is that do you think?

Christians or Conservative Christians?

Why? Because LDS (and others) do no agree with their basic understanding/interpretation/definition of Christianity.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Libby

Why? Because LDS (and others) do no agree with their basic understanding/interpretation/definition of Christianity.

Because Mormonism and Christianity are polar opposites.

[Libby]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Because Mormonism and Christianity are polar opposites.

Some big differences, yes, but not polar opposites, at all. And, yet, LDS, given their big differences with mainstream, still do not deny their (mainstream's) Christianity. Why do you think that is?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Libby

Some big differences, yes, but not polar opposites, at all.

You may not think they are polar opposites but I do.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Libby

And, yet, LDS, given their big differences with mainstream, still do not deny their (mainstream's) Christianity. Why do you think that is?

I am not sure what you mean can you rephrase it?

[Libby]

Originally Posted by Billyray

I am not sure what you mean can you rephrase it?

All I'm saying, Billy, is that the LDS Church allows others the ***le of "Christian"....they don't try to say that, those with whom they disagree, are not Christian. At least, not the contemporary LDS Church. I'm sure you can dig something up from the past that will have someone saying differently.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Libby

All I'm saying, Billy, is that the LDS Church allows others the ***le of "Christian"....they don't try to say that, those with whom they disagree, are not Christian.....

1 Nephi 14
10 And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the ***** of all the earth.

[Libby]

Originally Posted by Billyray

1 Nephi 14
10 And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the ***** of all the earth.

Yes, I think we've had that conversation, already. The First Counselor in my Ward said that the Church of the Lamb includes many who are not currently LDS....and the church of the devil may very well include those who are currently LDS. (in a nutshell)

I know for a fact that LDS do recognize other Christian denominations as Christian.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Libby

Yes, I think we've had that conversation, already. The First Counselor in my Ward said that the Church of the Lamb includes many who are not currently LDS....and the church of the devil may very well include those who are currently LDS. (in a nutshell)

I know for a fact that LDS do recognize other Christian denominations as Christian.

1. Which church is the Church of the lamb of God?

2. Which churches fall under the church of the devil?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Libby

and the church of the devil may very well include those who are currently LDS.

So some LDS belong to the church of the Devil?

[Libby]

Originally Posted by Billyray

So some LDS belong to the church of the Devil?

According to what I was taught, yes. Those who follow and obey Christ belong to the Church of the Lamb. Those who do not, belong to the other.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Libby

According to what I was taught, yes. Those who follow and obey Christ belong to the Church of the Lamb. Those who do not, belong to the other.

So every person on this board belongs to the Church of the lamb of God and we are all going to be exalted?

[Libby]

Originally Posted by Billyray

So every person on this board belongs to the Church of the lamb of God and we are all going to be exalted?

Within Mormon theology that is a distinct possibility.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Libby

Within Mormon theology that is a distinct possibility.

If that is the case then why do you think that they had Lucifer hiring a Christian minister to convert people to his religion in the temple ceremony pre-1990?

[Libby]

Originally Posted by Billyray

If that is the case then why do you think that they had Lucifer hiring a Christian minister to convert people to his religion in the temple ceremony pre-1990?

I never, personally, witnessed that, but I would guess that the reasoning was that, once you have the "fulness", only satan could cause you to go to something less.