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Thread: from a political perspective, I dont have a problem voting for a Mormon like Mitt.

  1. #551
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post

    The more time Santorum has a chance to spout his views, .....
    Rush seems to be saying that Rick is doing better now with the ladies than he was before people started trying to dig up dirt on him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    Rush seems to be saying that Rick is doing better now with the ladies than he was before people started trying to dig up dirt on him.
    Rush seems to be in the pocket of those 150 pastors. He is making himself look s.tupid. This lady is not impressed.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  3. #553
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    Its not an excuse, its what he did.

    and it was not an error on his part, it was a judgement call he made...

    and the result is that we got to pro-Life judges on the court, while at the same time guy's like Mitt were not even sure what position to take on abortion.

    Rick knows what he believes, and he took action to save children.

    I got to hand it to Rick for not being shy about making a deal to save children.
    Its an excuse. And you only mentioned one bill of the many big money bills he voted yes on.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  4. #554
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    Its an excuse. And you only mentioned one bill of the many big money bills he voted yes on.
    oh I think that looking at a guy's voting record is fine...

    It is correct to go over the way congressmen vote and have them talk about why they voted the way they did.

    That would be a correct means to judge their *** performance by.


    Im just saying that Rick did what he felt was the right call to make to help put strong pro-life judges on the high court.
    Rick made a judgement call to try to save lives of kids while in other parts of the country there were other people doing the old flip-flop not knowing what position to take on the issue.

    Rick knew what he was aiming at ...he knew that he needed to try to convince a known Pro-Abortion Senator to help approve a Pro-Life judge.
    I think that Rick made a hard call, but it was the right call too.

  5. #555
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    oh I think that looking at a guy's voting record is fine...

    It is correct to go over the way congressmen vote and have them talk about why they voted the way they did.

    That would be a correct means to judge their *** performance by.


    Im just saying that Rick did what he felt was the right call to make to help put strong pro-life judges on the high court.
    Rick made a judgement call to try to save lives of kids while in other parts of the country there were other people doing the old flip-flop not knowing what position to take on the issue.

    Rick knew what he was aiming at ...he knew that he needed to try to convince a known Pro-Abortion Senator to help approve a Pro-Life judge.
    I think that Rick made a hard call, but it was the right call too.
    Did you miss in the debate where Rick said he went against his beliefs to be a team player (his words)?
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  6. #556
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    Did you miss in the debate where Rick said he went against his beliefs to be a team player (his words)?
    yes...and it is fine to go over how a congreessman votes and have them tell you why they voted the way they did.


    again, that it how we should judge the *** performance of congressman in office.

    Not according to their marriage.
    Not according to their religion
    and not according to their personal life.

    What Im saying is that I really find no fault in RicK supporting a Pro-Abortion senator if part of that deal is in return that Important Senator supports stongly Pro-Life judges to the high court.

    Rick did support the guy.
    The Guy did support the pro-Life judges.

    Yes, this means that you may have to come out looking bad in some people's minds, but that it just part of the deal too....the being willing to suffer so that the cause you fight for gets an important victory..


    As for the comment "Take one for the team" I believe that came up in the debate in connection with the vote to let a few schools off the hook with the NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND requirements.
    And i actually dont have a problem with that vote.
    I know that this vote also was a part of a bigger deal that got the Republicans part of what they were seeking too.

    and that the reason this all is in the news today is the problem poor States like North Dakota have at keeping good teachers in the very smaller towns that lack enough taxes to stay even with the larger metro areas of this country.

    One of the things written-in to the NCLB rules is if a school under-performs that it should be closed and the students moved to better schools.

    That is a great idea if the other school is just up the street,
    but how do you do that if the next High School is a 2 or 3 hours bus ride away?
    Who picks up that gas bill?
    Who wants their kids out in that type of winter driving conditions?

    and in some cases in western ND there simply are no means to bring all the students of a whole High school to other counties...simply no way to do it.
    There is no sense talking about closing down poorer schools in North Dakota because they cant equal the same high standards of New York, if the ND High School is the only one in a 3 or 4 country area.

    Thus I see the point of the Republican and Dem Parties working out a deal with Obama to allow some schools off the hook.

    Yes, this means that to get the vote you have to do a bit of arm-twisting of members of your Party to make a vote that will look like it's going against this key Republican/President Bush plan to make schools better..

    But sometimes you have to face the reality that not every good idea in Washington works out evenly all over.
    Last edited by alanmolstad; 02-26-2012 at 09:29 AM.

  7. #557
    alanmolstad
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    The cornerstone of President Bush's effort to help schools was the NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND law.

    The idea was to hold all kids to the same standard, and to pump money into schools that did not test even with others.

    the problem is that in States where schools are far from each other you really cant say that if a school is constantly under-performing that the students should be transferred and the poor school closed.

    There just are not other schools to bring kids to in vast sections of North Dakota.

    The idea that if a school tests poorly out on the vast open sections of this country and cant equal the same test scores as in the highest taxed areas with the greatest populations would automatically cause the school to close?.....
    That idea nuts.


    Thus the reason that there has been a lot of arm-twisting and horse trading in order to allow some schools to not have to be held to standards that they simply will never be able to reach.

    Yes, this means that for some congressmen, they are going to have to 'take one for the team" and vote to allow schools to not meet standards that 8 years ago seemed like it was the only way to make schools accountable.

    Yes, it's likely handing an issue to members of the opposition.


    All i can say about this issue is that:
    Some times what appears to be a great idea in Washington DC, turns out not work all that well in real life.

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    Okay, you go ahead and support the guy that went against his convictions (politically, not religiously) to support the team (Santorum) and I will vote for the guy who, after learning more about an issue (abortion) changed his mind and voted with his convictions against his team (Romney).

    You go with the guy who, when he lost his position, went on to lobby for millions of dollars (Santorum) and I'll go with the guy who charged his state one dollar for his services while in government (Romney).

    You go with the guy who sees education as a way to brainwash people (Santorum) and I will go with the guy who sees education as a way to prosper (Romney).

    You go with the guy that went along with the team so much that it threw our country into further debt and obligation (Santorum) and I will go with the guy who took his state's credit rating and improved it (Romney).
    Last edited by BigJulie; 02-26-2012 at 02:07 PM.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  9. #559
    alanmolstad
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    I will go with the guy who I think gives the best voice to the views that I hold to.


    (as I have always said I would...)

  10. #560
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    What do you think about Rick robo-calling democratics to get them to vote for him? What excuse do you think Rush will come up for this bad behavior?
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  11. #561
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    What do you think about Rick robo-calling
    While I actually think that making an appeal to Dems is a very good idea, and is one of the means to bring new people into the Party by getting them used to voting Republican....

    Yet, Im not really a guy who likes to get robo-calls myself, and I tend to vote against people interrupt my day with such things....


    But appealing to Dems to come out and vote for you is a VERY GOOD THING, not only for Rick, but also for the future of the Party as a whole....

  12. #562
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    ..... What excuse do you think Rush will come up for this bad behavior?
    I dodnt think that appealing to Dems is a bad thing to do at all....I wish more Republicans would do the same...

    Appealing to Dems, like the Pro-Life Dems is one way to get some Liberals over the 'hump" of voting for a Republican.

    Its a lot more easy to draw Dems to the republican party if you get them to vote for a Republican in a Primary election.

    Its only human nature to support later in the general election the same person you voted for in the primary....

    Give credit to Rush, this is a very smart idea...and should be part of every Republican Primary.

  13. #563
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    I dodnt think that appealing to Dems is a bad thing to do at all....I wish more Republicans would do the same...

    Appealing to Dems, like the Pro-Life Dems is one way to get some Liberals over the 'hump" of voting for a Republican.

    Its a lot more easy to draw Dems to the republican party if you get them to vote for a Republican in a Primary election.

    Its only human nature to support later in the general election the same person you voted for in the primary....

    Give credit to Rush, this is a very smart idea...and should be part of every Republican Primary.
    It is one thing for Rush to do this; it is another for a candidate. It smells of desperation from the guy who touts himself as the "conservative."
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  14. #564
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    It is one thing for Rush to do this; it is another for a candidate. It smells of desperation from the guy who touts himself as the "conservative."
    from the Parties point of view its a very good idea and I wish a lot more Conservatives would make a clear statement of reaching-out to Dems who on some issues might share more with the Republicans than with the pro-Abortion Liberals.

    Does it smell of desperation?...oh yes..thats clear.

    and personally I dont actually like any types of robo-calls, so Rick did not win any points with me for that part of this.

    But the idea to try to get Dems to vote for you is not only smart, its a very 'good" thing for the Party to see happen.

    What we always have to remember is that there are a LOT of conservative Dems out there,,,,,they are the Dems who came out strong for Ronald Reagan.

    Thus Rick has strong historical support for attempting to bring some more Conservative Dems out to vote for a Republican....

    I hope that idea catches on....

  15. #565
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    In the general election, yes, we hope many democrats vote republican. In the primaries...well, here is what I see. To win a presidential election anymore, it doesn't just take a person with an idea, but it takes organization. We can see this already briefly in the primaries. Newt and Rick did not get on the ballot for lack of organization. In the primaries, this may not come across as that big of a deal, but lack of organization can kill you. My view on Rick is that this primary is a good practice run for him just as it was for Mitt last time through. He is seeing where his mistakes are both in organization and what he should not be talking about. For example, he keeps saying things that speak to inexperience and lack of knowledge.

    So, this idea of Rick's may sound good, but while he may win the battle (trying to undo his lack of organization with a strategy to get the dems to vote for him), I think it will ultimately loss the war as he is not prepared.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  16. #566
    alanmolstad
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    at this point in time...Rick is mostly playing for the open convention....same as Newt.

    That is their only hope at this point.

    The fact is that while Mitt cant just coat to victory, , all Mitt has to do at this point is not screw up, or have anything come up that screws up his walk to victory.


    At this point Rick is really thinking about only one thing....the VP spot.

    Rick needs to cause as much damage to Mitt in the next few weeks to show it's worth getting him on the ticket so as to bring in the conservative vote.


    What we have learned in the last 3 weeks is that Mitt is going to lose against Obama big time...that Mitt cant even get the support of a minor percent of the Conservative vote, and without it he has ZERO chance of beating Obama.

    Mitt has just dont nothing to imprive his odds of getting the support of the conservatives, and each day that p***es he sinks more away from where he should be.

    You want to know what Mitt needs to do?
    Mitt needs to be on a stage standing next to Sarah Palin.....


    thats about the best chance he has right now....

  17. #567
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    Yes, and I think it would be rediculous to put someone in during an open convention who received less support in the general population than the leader did.

    I question the mindset of "hey, the leader didn't get enough votes, let's put in the second or third place guy and see if he can do better?" (And why would they do better if they did not do well in the primaries?)
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  18. #568
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    Yes, and I think it would be rediculous to put someone in during an open convention who received less support in the general population than the leader did.

    I question the mindset of "hey, the leader didn't get enough votes, let's put in the second or third place guy and see if he can do better?" (And why would they do better if they did not do well in the primaries?)
    I think that the people that are really pushing to get the the convention, open it up to get rid of Mitt, and pick a new guy..have no intention of picking Rick or Newt.....

    My views of this are the following..

    Mitt has won the states that he had to win....yes, he did not win by much, but he still knew he had to win them and he did...

    Thus I do not se any chance right now of an open convention....I just dont see it getting the big push it needs because Mitt won when he had to and thats-that.

    While Rush and others in the conservative wing are still talking about an "Open Convention"...I dont see that happening unless something rather stunning happens to the Mitt campaign.

    Right now I see the following...

    Ron Paul
    is in this to try to work a back-room deal to get his son on the ticket

    Newt
    is in this to pay-back Mitt for Iowa, and to have a center role at the convention.

    Rick
    is in this to get the VP spot.





    However...I have always felt that Huntsman will get the VP spot....

  19. #569
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    I




    However...I have always felt that Huntsman will get the VP spot....
    With Mitt? I can't see it. I think he would go for someone we haven't seen at all yet.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  20. #570
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    With Mitt? I can't see it. I think he would go for someone we haven't seen at all yet.

    Before this race started...before anyone had announced they would run....when the top of the media list was only Sarah Palin...I wrote the two names that i guessed would lead the Republican ticket.

    mitt for pres
    Huntsmen for VP

    I believe that huntsment brings the two things to the office of VP I look for in a guy right now.

    #1 - he knows the Chinese, and the fact is that China is where America gets it's cash, and if China ever got mad at us and held back from borrowing us the cash we need, this country would close in 24 hours....

    #2 - he hates Mitt on a personal level....They have had words in the past and dont like each other personally at all...and this means he will NEVER be a "yes man" to Mitt....he will say whats on his mind...and Mitt will need that from the way i have watch Mitt's team screw up even easy calls like the tax return issue...clearly Mitt has too many Yes Men around him

    I Mitt/Huntsman team would be good....


    The problem with this is that Huntsman was just ****py in the debates....whereas Rick is well practiced at being in a debate...and when the two VP's debate all we want to see is our guy not screw up.......

    I worry that because Huntsman is so bad at being in a debate he could **** the whole election...

  21. #571
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    Before this race started...before anyone had announced they would run....when the top of the media list was only Sarah Palin...I wrote the two names that i guessed would lead the Republican ticket.
    He won't pick Huntsman because there is more going on than just China.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  22. #572
    alanmolstad
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    I think he will...If you have been watching the news you would notice that Obama is moving all our ships and fleets to Southeast asia.....

    We also are closing bases in the middle east and starting to build bases in Asia....

    I think what Obama sees going on is that china is building up to start taking an active role in that whole area...and America is going to counter this so as to try to keep Free China free.....

    There is also the North Korea situation....

    Im thinking that Mitt will actually need help in this area...and the most likely name at the top of the list is Huntsman...

  23. #573
    alanmolstad
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    or rather I should say that on paper Huntsman looks like a good pick.

    The problem is again that Huntsman does not help him get elected at all.

    the guy had a lot of issues with conservatives, and right now if Mitt wants to get elected hi has to consider a name for VP that brings the conservatives to his side....

  24. #574
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    Well, Mitt certainly won't be picking Santorum. I don't think those pastors did their homework when getting together and deciding by vote that they would all try to use their influence to back Santorum.

    "One of the top donors to Santorum's charity was also the beneficiary of an $8 million Santorum-sponsored federal earmark, according to published reports."

    http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/santor...ry?id=15287424

    I was reading the news this morning and a poster was posting some of Santorum's ethics problems and so I looked into it further (Santorum has a slew of them.) It appears that Santorum was selling his influence.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  25. #575
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    Well, Mitt certainly won't be picking Santorum. ......
    we shall see....No one knows the future right now, or how things will work out.

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