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Thread: from a political perspective, I dont have a problem voting for a Mormon like Mitt.

  1. #601
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    you were very clear....that if Newt beat Obama that you would not bother to vote for anyone at all.

    It did not matter how bad a president Obama was...
    It did not matter that one guy running would be a Republican and thus in position to name judges and sign bills supported by other Republicans.....

    You would simply never in a million years support him.

    Thus it should not be surprising to you to then later see now how your same mind set has caught on.....

    Just different names but the same determined mind set.
    Yes, but the reasons for my mindset were very serious. Newt has had ethics violations to the tune of being fined $300,000. He was upset to think that anything that was discussed by the ethics committee would be leaked to the press. He has cheated on not one but two wives. This gave me great pause to consider him.

    I have heard nothing from you as to why you would not consider Romney other than his old stance on social issues and so far, you have given me nothing at all. I am only left to believe that even though you state you would vote for a Mormon, the truth is that you have too much bigotry against them to vote for one as you have not given one real substantial reason for it. If old stances on abortion are enough and even though Mitt's voting record is pro-life, well then, what more can it be then bigotry?
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  2. #602
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    Yes, but the reasons for my mindset were very serious. ......
    Dont care.
    Every person's reasons for stuff like that always seem so good....

    But the truth is that they are only good from their own little private point of view, and if they actually see someone else acting as they act they are the first to point out the flaws in such actions.

    Just watch.....

  3. #603
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    Dont care.
    Every person's reasons for stuff like that always seem so good....

    But the truth is that they are only good from their own little private point of view, and if they actually see someone else acting as they act they are the first to point out the flaws in such actions.

    Just watch.....
    I think my thoughts regarding Newt are widely shared which is why he did so poorly in the GOP elections. And I have never had an affair or had any ethics violations, so I don't point this out as serious because it is my own narrow point of view, but for most people, ethics violations and affairs are serious problems. I am surprised you think otherwise. And I am glad to know that the majority of voters feel the same way I do. I believed that if they didn't--the GOP no longer represented a party with any decency.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  4. #604
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    I believed that if they didn't--the GOP no longer represented a party with any decency.
    The moment you believe that one political Party is more decent than another you set yourself up to be very let down.

    Political parties are not moral creatures.

  5. #605
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    I think my thoughts regarding Newt are widely shared .....
    a moot point.






    Here is something to think about Julie.

    We tend to judge our actions by only the "intention" we had.
    We tend to judge the actions of others with no regard for their intentions.

    Even if the results are the very same final "action".


    So the result/action of not voting (and allowing Obama 4 more years) is seen in ourselves as "taking a stand", because we overlook the damage our actions may cause others because we only look at our "intentions"

    We pat ourselves on the back because we believe our intentions are so good that they outweigh the harm we cause.

    Perhaps we even believe that God supports our stand.


    Then we hear that another person is also not going to vote (thus helping to allow Obama 4 more years) and we act all belligerent to them.

    We call their intentions "bigotry"

    And we don't believe in a million years that God supports their actions.

    We are blind...
    Last edited by alanmolstad; 05-04-2012 at 01:15 PM.

  6. #606
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    a moot point.






    Here is something to think about Julie.

    We tend to judge our actions by only the "intention" we had.
    We tend to judge the actions of others with no regard for their intentions.

    Even if the results are the very same final "action".


    So the result/action of not voting (and allowing Obama 4 more years) is seen in ourselves as "taking a stand", because we overlook the damage our actions may cause others because we only look at our "intentions"

    We pat ourselves on the back because we believe our intentions are so good that they outweigh the harm we cause.

    Perhaps we even believe that God supports our stand.


    Then we hear that another person is also not going to vote (thus helping to allow Obama 4 more years) and we act all belligerent to them.

    We call their intentions "bigotry"

    And we don't believe in a million years that God supports their actions.

    We are blind...
    Not voting for someone because they are dishonest and corrupt (as Newt---it is a proven fact) and then not voting for someone because of an old stand on social issues--well, they are not the same. Try as you like, it is not the same. How would putting someone in who has no ethics improve the situation? Now compare that to not voting for someone because of their old stance on something---one is bigotry, the other is not.

    All I can see is that you distrust Mitt, not on anything he has done as a politician but what you perceive him to be---that is bigotry.

    My distrust of Newt is on something he has done as a politician. I am just glad that the rest of the GOP see it the same way I do. I just couldn't believe it when SC supported him. I thought---if this is the GOP, then they do not represent decency.

    Our reasons our different. Mine are on concrete evidence, yours is on nothing more than an old stance. That is a huge difference.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  7. #607
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    I thought---if this is the GOP, then they do not represent decency.

    .
    If you believe that a political Party represents decency you are going to be in for a big let down.

    Political parties are not moral creatures...

  8. #608
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    they are not the same.
    They are identical

    Please refer to my answer 605 above.

  9. #609
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    They are identical

    Please refer to my answer 605 above.
    I strongly disagree---changing positions on issues is NOT the same as violating ethics and cheating on two wives. I am glad the majority of the GOP agrees with me.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  10. #610
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    C
    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    Alan, I am curious where you stand now that Rick and Newt are effectively out of the race.

    (I am glad that Rick wisened up by the way---and showed he cared more about the 2012 and family more than self.)
    The idea mitt has is that in the general election he does not have to appeal to conservative Republicans because who else could they vote for?
    Mitt thinks all he needs to do is reach out to undecided and more liberal voters and he will win.

    It is my guess that mitt will never draw the leberals and that when push comes to shove the conservatives will just never support mitt.

    I actually think that there is a good chance yet that conservatives will yettry one more time to challenge mitt at the convention.


    Time will tell but I have been listening to many conservative blogs and from Christian writers and there is a lot of planning going on even now about using a few rules at the convention to toss out all of the primary results and allowing all the people at the con the freedom to vote for anyone.

    Remember my home state of north Dakota voted for rick well after it was very clear rick had no chance..think of that for a moment...
    People went out into the cold on a dark night to vote for a guy who had no chance and there knew it!

    There is the p***ion you need to have to win an election that mitt will never have...

    Thus I believe the record is clear- mitt cant win without the supportof the conservatives. And they have been very very very clear in every vote so far that mitt cant count on them...even if he thinks he can..

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    Okay, let me get this straight---we have an electorial process and one person emerges as the lead--Mitt Romney. BUT, you and others think that we should toss out this person and vote in someone who does not have the lead or was unable to prove themselves as a leader in the election process. And you state that a group of "conservative blogs and Christian writers" are working behind the scenes to make this come about. Please, explain how this not a result of bigotry, but good logic?

    Please note that many conservatives are supporting Mitt---which is why he is winning up to this point. Please inform me who you think these "conservatives" are who will not support Mitt?
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  12. #612
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    What people are attempting to do is avoid another Mccain....where a guy not supported by conservatives won the nonmination and dragged the whole party down.
    The best thing to do is always run a person that has strong support with conservatives....

    My guess is....that becauce the only guy left in the race is Ron Paul it will be his name that gets pushed forward....

    Thus I expect that as the convention draws near we will suddenly see Ron Paul's name suddenly shoot up in the polls and there will be a strong attempt to change the rules to allow guys pledged to vote for mitt to be able to switch and vote for Ron Paul....

  13. #613
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    A change in the rules to get the guy in last place to the winner circle? That does not sound like smart politics at all. I think Rubio said it best when he said that a fight at the convention would not be good for the GOP and bad for the elections in November.

    Here is part of Rick Santorum's endorsement of Romney:

    "Santorum said in an unusual late-night statement that the two have differences, but that he came away from a meeting with the ex-M***achusetts governor impressed with Romney's "deep understanding" of economic and family issues central to the campaign.

    "Above all else, we both agree that President (Barack) Obama must be defeated. The task will not be easy. It will require all hands on deck if our nominee is to be victorious," Santorum said."

    Romney has a voting record (in a blue state) that is very conservative. I am not sure who you think all these conservatives are who do not support Romney. He is clearly garnishing the most votes.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  14. #614
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    If a person believes that Mitt can beat Obama without the strong support of the Conservatives?.....then things are going just fine.

    If you believe that Mitt can not beat Obama without the strong support of the Conservatives?.....then you smell "doom" in the air.


    So Julie, do you believe that Mitt can win without the strong support of conservatives?

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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    If a person believes that Mitt can beat Obama without the strong support of the Conservatives?.....then things are going just fine.

    If you believe that Mitt can not beat Obama without the strong support of the Conservatives?.....then you smell "doom" in the air.


    So Julie, do you believe that Mitt can win without the strong support of conservatives?
    I guess the big question now is whether or not "conservatives" will sit this one out with Obama being in support of gay marriage. Would you still not vote for Mitt if he is the nominee with this new announcement?
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  16. #616
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    see that?

    What you just said....


    thats the thinking that Bob Dole had.

    that's the same thinking that McCain had...
    and now Mitt and his supporters have the same idea too!

    They all think that they dont need to make any special appeal to the conservatives at all.

    They believe that all they need to do is sit back and watch the conservatives come to them because there is no one else but (Dole/McCain/Romney) to stop the pro-gay liberals....


    Thats the thinking Mitt actually has right now.
    thats the "Plan" of his staff.....

    They think that when push comes to shove that "Who else will the Conservatives vote for?"


    Thats the thinking Bib Dole had.....and lost with.

    Thats the thinking McCain had.....and lost with.

    and thats the thinking of the supporters of Mitt have........

  17. #617
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    What exactly would Mitt need to change to appeal to you?
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  18. #618
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    There were 4 pro-life conventions held across the country during this election so far..

    All of the people in the Republican race attended, even if they were not officially in the race, they attended and gave their voice to the issue....

    Except for one guy.......

    One guy made a point of not being there each time.

    All the other people stood up and gave a strong voice to the issues I care about.....

    and one guy had an empty chair represent his message to the conservatives.

    The meaning was not lost on this conservative.....not lost at all....

  19. #619
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    There were 4 pro-life conventions held across the country during this election so far..

    All of the people in the Republican race attended, even if they were not officially in the race, they attended and gave their voice to the issue....

    Except for one guy.......

    One guy made a point of not being there each time.

    All the other people stood up and gave a strong voice to the issues I care about.....

    and one guy had an empty chair represent his message to the conservatives.

    The meaning was not lost on this conservative.....not lost at all....
    Okay, so the ONE thing you would change is that Mitt would show up to pro-life conventions. Anything else?
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  20. #620
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    Okay, so the ONE thing you would change is that Mitt would show up to pro-life conventions. Anything else?
    I dont think you caught my point...

    Let me try again:

    When I was just a little kid I can remember one time my mom and dad took my brother and I into town on Halloween to do trick-or-treat with the city kids.

    There was one house of a lady that my parents knew so we make a special trip over to her house and knocked on the door.

    But when she came out the lady told us that she did not give out candy on Halloween because it was Satan Worship, but that if we came back the next night she would give us candy.

    We walked away.....

    I remember as we walked away my parents did not know what to say to us...but my little brother spoke up what we all felt.

    "Who in the world wants to knock on doors for candy when it's not Halloween?"...."That's dumb"

  21. #621
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    I dont think you caught my point...

    Let me try again:

    When I was just a little kid I can remember one time my mom and dad took my brother and I into town on Halloween to do trick-or-treat with the city kids.

    There was one house of a lady that my parents knew so we make a special trip over to her house and knocked on the door.

    But when she came out the lady told us that she did not give out candy on Halloween because it was Satan Worship, but that if we came back the next night she would give us candy.

    We walked away.....

    I remember as we walked away my parents did not know what to say to us...but my little brother spoke up what we all felt.

    "Who in the world wants to knock on doors for candy when it's not Halloween?"...."That's dumb"
    You're right---I don't get your point and now I don't get it even more. Are you saying that you won't vote for Romney because he hurt your feelings and didn't show up to your convention? Is this the ONLY thing you would change about Romney, or is there more?
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  22. #622
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    ..... Is this the ONLY thing you would change about Romney, or is there more?
    .......hmmmm....you keep thinking that I want Mitt to change?....

    I dont think any conservatives want Mitt to change.

    I have never heard of any well-known conservatives that have called for Mitt to change.

    We dont want him at all....



    perhaps you have once again missed my point...
    It's like this Julie , I remember back to when Bob Dole was criticized in the media for his lack of any support among conservatives.
    Dole's response was that in the general election he expected the conservatives to "come around" because they will see the many things at stake if they dont support him.

    The numbers after the election are interesting.
    Yes, Bob Dole did get a very high percent of the vote from the conservatives, but what we have to keep in mind is the real lack of the conservative turn-out in that election..

    So the fact that Dole got over 80% of the vote of the conservatives is rather meaningless when you consider that most conservatives did not bother to vote...


    next up...McCain
    John McCain ,who also had really no support among conservatives during the primary.

    McCain won the Primary just like Mitt won this time, due to the split vote of the conservatives and really made no attempt to draw close to conservatives.

    Once again when asked about the lack of support he had among conservatives it was said by the leader of McCain's election staff that "Who else would the conservatives vote for?"

    So the idea the leadership of the Republican ticket had is that they never needed to reach out to the conservatives because sooner or later they felt all the Republican base conservatives would turn out to vote for McCain because there was no one else.

    They felt that "Obama will scare them to the polls"

    The result of thinking that the conservatives will "come-around'....is to lose.

    As we learned in the SC primary, the conservatives would rather support a bag of dirt for President, than Mitt.

    But once again the campaign staff of Mitt Romney was on the TV news shows last Sunday morning talking about the lack of support they had among conservatives.

    and once again we heard the "They will come-around" answer given.

    This is the type of answer that makes the liberals like the head of Obama's election staff smile from ear to ear.

    They LOVE to hear the answer "Oh dont worry, the Conservatives will come around to support us in the election"



    The underlining truth is more simple to see and understand.

    The truth is that the conservatives never wanted Bob Dole....and so Dole lost.

    The truth is that conservatives never wanted McCain...and so McCain lost.

    and the results of the SC Primary make it very clear what the conservatives think of Mitt Romney.



    But didn't Rick come out in support of Mitt?

    Well sorta,
    I mean he did send out an email in the middle of the night...
    an email that talked on and on about beating Obama, and near the end indorsed Mitt.

    But in reality, I have spread jam on my morning toast that was thicker than Rick's endorsement of Mitt.....LOL


    and we all know why dont we?
    Rick has to support the leader of the ticket in this election, to be in a position to draw them same supporters of Mitt in the next election.

    All the people that support Mitt in this election, Rick wants them same people to support him in the election in 4 years.
    Last edited by alanmolstad; 05-10-2012 at 04:24 AM.

  23. #623
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    So, what do you think it would take for Mitt to get the enthusiatic support of ALL the conservatives? Since "coming around" cannot be expected--what do you think Mitt should do to garner your support? (As you noted that he should not change any of his positions.)

    I have yet to hear the reason you don't want him at all other than he didn't show up to your conventions. Is that it?
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  24. #624
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    ....-what do you think Mitt should do to garner your support? ....
    "do"?

    This is a word that i think is going to come up more and more as the fall vote draws closer and the polling numbers for Mitt simply dont reflect what he and his campaine staff had bet would be the case.

    I think that right around mid-summer the polling numbers will show that Mitt needs the strong showing of the conservative base that he always had expected to be there for him,,,but now seems to have dissolved into thin air.

    I expect a lot of Republicans on Mitt's team will sit around the table and start to ask about something that Mitt might 'do' to fire up the conservatives into supporting him.

    Perhaps Mitt will make a few statements....perhaps Mitt might have a few people over to his house to talk...
    perhaps Mitt might name this or that person to a position that he thinks might make the conservatives happy.

    Yes, Julie, im sure that before this summer is over that Mitt will try to "do' something to make conservatives support him.


    Im just saying that its moot.

    Wont matter....
    would be seen as being fake,,,
    would be seen as almost an attempt to buy votes of conservatives.

  25. #625
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    Is this your answer?

    I don't see an answer here?

    I only see these points:

    1) There is nothing about Mitt's political positions you would change.
    2) That you were upset (as well as other conservatives) that he did not go to your pro-life conventions.
    3) That anything he did do would be considered fake.

    So, according to you, Mitt's political positions are fine and yet there is nothing he could do to gain your support. Why is that?
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

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