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Thread: from a political perspective, I dont have a problem voting for a Mormon like Mitt.

  1. #101
    alanmolstad
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    clearly our goals are not the same....

    You seem to always be worried about if its easy to drop the health insurance?

    You also seem to always come back to the issue of a hospital tossing out a sick person who has no insurance.
    Time and time again you keep getting to that image of a hospital shutting its doors in the face of need.

    Well....my wife works at a hospital, and let me tell you something, no one that works at the hospital got into the work because they thought that down the line that sort of dark future would be real.

    Lets design a system where that never happens....thats should be our goal.

    Not to toss a few people out on their ****s, watch them die in the street, and hope others, "Learn a lesson"


    My concern is that i want to make growing up with insurance to be a normal way to grow up for everyone.

    I want to make the chances great that the person walking into the ER in the future will have insurance because they always had it from the beginning.

    I actually want to make it 'hard" for a person to drop their insurance.


    You want to make it easy to drop insurance.


    I want it to be that the chance that a person has dropped his insurance to be very rare...

    You want it to be common.

    Well guess what?
    It is already common.....and thats the problem.
    Last edited by alanmolstad; 11-18-2011 at 04:20 PM.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    Im talking about a system that is different than Mitt's system to be sure.
    And my system is based on the idea that we want to make insurance the most easy for every man to have when he walks in the door of the ER.

    My system is completely voluntary...and thats the thing that a lot of Mitt supporters dont know how to deal with about Mitt's past..

    a fact is a fact, and it is a cold hard fact that one of the issues that was the very foundation of the Tea Party is the Clinton, then Mitt/Obama health care push to bring in a mandate.

    This is also the reason for the media being so kind to Mitt, while it tries it's best to destroy anyone who is a challenger to Mitt to leading the ticket.

    The liberal press wants Mitt to win the primary!

    The liberals know that the moment that Mitt wins the primary, the whole health care mandate issue is taken off the table.
    I don't know if I like the idea of a mandate, which is why I like the opt out options, but your idea is worse than a mandate, it is bondage to an insurance company. It is a terrible idea and lures the parent in and then traps the child. I don't know if the press really wants Romney all that bad---it seems they go for the person who is at the "top of the polls" which Newt is right now.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    clearly our goals are not the same....

    You seem to always be worried about if its easy to drop the health insurance?

    You also seem to always come back to the issue of a hospital tossing out a sick person who has no insurance.
    Time and time again you keep getting to that image of a hospital shutting its doors in the face of need.

    Well....my wife works at a hospital, and let me tell you something, no one that works at the hospital got into the work because they thought that down the line that sort of dark future would be real.

    Lets design a system where that never happens....thats should be our goal.

    Not to toss a few people out on their ****s, watch them die in the street, and hope others, "Learn a lesson"


    My concern is that i want to make growing up with insurance to be a normal way to grow up for everyone.

    I want to make the chances great that the person walking into the ER in the future will have insurance because they always had it from the beginning.

    I actually want to make it 'hard" for a person to drop their insurance.


    You want to make it easy to drop insurance.


    I want it to be that the chance that a person has dropped his insurance to be very rare...

    You want it to be common.

    Well guess what?
    It is already common.....and thats the problem.
    You are clearly not seeing my perspective on this. Right now, the problem exists because those who have insurance pay for those who do not have insurance either via medicaid or higher insurance and/or hospitial costs. So, effectively, we have a tax already. The question is, does the government address this tax we are paying in the form of higher medical bills and insurance costs or not.

    Your plan puts someone in bondage TO an insurance company. That gives the insurance company all kinds of leverage to abuse. I have seen this already with cell phone plans---easy in and then a fee to opt out. This is why I personally would rather pay for my phone then to renew my plan with a "free" phone as I have seen the difference when you can say--well, I am done with this company, I am going to go to another and how they treat you versus when you would have to pay a few hundred to opt out. And yet, you want to slap this $20,000 bill to opt out---sheesh. That would be worse than a tax. Imagine the person who is at odds with their insurance company over a bill and would rather go to another insurance company? And that company has a $20,000 bill to hang over their head. Talk about ugly.

    So, no, I am not talking about it being easy to drop insurance, I am talking about keeping the playing field level between the insurer and the insuree.

    Your idea is terrible and only the naive would adopt it.

    And the reason I bring up hospitals being able to turn down people without a way to pay is because that is total freedom which is what you say is YOUR goal. Total freedom means that not only do you have the choice to do what you want, but so do others so others do not have to pay for your bill if you choose to be irresponsible. The question is---do you want THAT much freedom or not?
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  4. #104
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    I don't know if the press really wants Romney all that bad--
    Rush had something up on his website the other day on this topic.
    Rush was talking about all the attack stories that the Liberal media had going against the others in the race....

    Take MSNBC for example, story after story attacking all the other guys.

    and how many attack stories against Mitt?......none?


    Mitt is the Liberal's dream!

    Mitt will take the Health Care issue off the table....

    Think of that for a moment.

    The very foundation of the Conservative agenda, totally taken out of the election?????

    Obama must get down on his knees every night and thank GOD that "Mitt the Flip-Flopper" is about to be his only opposition in the next election.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    Rush had something up on his website the other day on this topic.
    Rush was talking about all the attack stories that the Liberal media had going against the others in the race....

    Take MSNBC for example, story after story attacking all the other guys.

    and how many attack stories against Mitt?......none?


    Mitt is the Liberal's dream!

    Mitt will take the Health Care issue off the table....

    Think of that for a moment.

    The very foundation of the Conservative agenda, totally taken out of the election?????

    Obama must get down on his knees every night and thank GOD that "Mitt the Flip-Flopper" is about to be his only opposition in the next election.
    Mitt says that the first thing on his agenda is to repeal Obamacare. He says it is bad for our economy and the people don't want it.

    To me, it appears the media always goes after who ever is in the lead--right now it is Newt---so Newt is taking it on the chin. And do you remember on the news Jeffries calling Mitt a member of a cult? Why did the news cover that if they want Mitt to be the contender and there are so many (as N.T. Wright calls them) American paranoid evangelicals who run in fear any time the word cult is mentioned?

    And go look at the front page of CNN today---on the front is a story on Cain's faith, Mitt's faith and Rick Perry's faith. So, tell me that they are attacking Mitt (as well as the others) based on religion.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  6. #106
    alanmolstad
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    Nevermind what we were talking about...

    Julie, did you hear this?
    http://tv.breitbart.com/thrill-is-go...d-not-believe/


    The gum fell out of my mouth when I hear this video....This is Obama's Number 1 guy in the media......

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    Nevermind what we were talking about...

    Julie, did you hear this?
    http://tv.breitbart.com/thrill-is-go...d-not-believe/


    The gum fell out of my mouth when I hear this video....This is Obama's Number 1 guy in the media......
    I saw this earlier, but it wouldn't open---this time it did. (I read Drudge every day, do you?)

    I am glad Chris Matthew finally has the guts to say what even he as a liberal sees as far as this White House. As far as I am concerned, Obama is best at shutting down good companies, giving money to his cronies, and taking vacations.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  8. #108
    alanmolstad
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    I was shocked...totally shocked that the guy spoke up as he did.....

    I never saw this coming....

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    I was shocked...totally shocked that the guy spoke up as he did.....

    I never saw this coming....
    We live in a strange time to say the least.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    We live in a strange time to say the least.
    Alan, if you are around, what do you think about Newt? I just got a recorded phone message from him. I know he has backage. Do you think he can stand up to Obama?
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  11. #111
    alanmolstad
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    Newt has what Mitt lacks...a good conservative track record.

    at this time we all think Newt is running for the top place on the ticket, and this is true for now....

    But the real truth is that Newt is running for the VP position just like everyone else still in the race.


    The only chance Newt has of actually winning the lead on the ticket is if he can win early and get all of the true conservative support of the party.

    This means that I think Newt has to win early, say in Iowa.
    If he can win Iowa, it might cause Rush to support him into the next few weeks and that would be enough to show Mitt's support is wide,but thin deep.

    So knocking down Mitt in the early contests is key.

    on the other hand, if Mitt comes in a close 2nd in Iowa, and then wins the next States its all over....


    The race right now is to see who will get the most support from the tea party type conservatives?
    Right now its between Cain and Newt....

    and Cain and Newt are in a race to see who will get the VP position should Mitt win...

    The guy who delivers the conservative vote in the first States is in the best position to bring to a Mitt ticket what Mitt needs to win.

    Right now....without the Tea Party type conservatives, Mitt cant win.

    and based on his own track record there is no way for Mitt to improve his standing with such conservatives.
    Mitt needs to cover himself with a blanket like Cain or Newt that people will see....

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    Newt has what Mitt lacks...a good conservative track record.

    at this time we all think Newt is running for the top place on the ticket, and this is true for now....

    But the real truth is that Newt is running for the VP position just like everyone else still in the race.


    The only chance Newt has of actually winning the lead on the ticket is if he can win early and get all of the true conservative support of the party.

    This means that I think Newt has to win early, say in Iowa.
    If he can win Iowa, it might cause Rush to support him into the next few weeks and that would be enough to show Mitt's support is wide,but thin deep.

    So knocking down Mitt in the early contests is key.

    on the other hand, if Mitt comes in a close 2nd in Iowa, and then wins the next States its all over....


    The race right now is to see who will get the most support from the tea party type conservatives?
    Right now its between Cain and Newt....

    and Cain and Newt are in a race to see who will get the VP position should Mitt win...

    The guy who delivers the conservative vote in the first States is in the best position to bring to a Mitt ticket what Mitt needs to win.

    Right now....without the Tea Party type conservatives, Mitt cant win.

    and based on his own track record there is no way for Mitt to improve his standing with such conservatives.
    Mitt needs to cover himself with a blanket like Cain or Newt that people will see....
    On one hand, it appears you think Mitt has it hands down--in the next line, you say that he can't win the support of the conservatives, which he needs.

    I don't see Cain in the running at all--he is out. He has too much backage coming forward that just doesn't look good. I do not know Newt well enough to form an opinion, but I will keep my eyes open to see if he is someone I could support.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  13. #113
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    On one hand, it appears you think Mitt has it hands down--in the next line, you say that he can't win the support of the conservatives, which he needs.

    Yes..this is true...But I should have added a word to make my point more clear...

    I believe that Mitt has the Republican nomination won hands down...

    However I don't think Mitt can win in the general election against Obama unless he has strong conservative voter support.

    The problem then is based on his past record of stabbing conservative issues in the back, he will nevr get the amount of support he needs to win.


    So, alone Mitt cant win.

    I dont believe that just because the country os going down hill now as for ***s that that alone will be good enough to get Mitt elected.

    Mitt needs the conservatives....he needs guys like me...and so far i dont really see Mitt as a guy i would want to vote for.

    This makes it clear to me that Mitt should be watching the primary's very close as to what name gets the Tea Party members vote.....

    thats the person he will need as his VP.


    so right now the whole rest of the primary is all about going for the VP slot on the ticket...

    Mitt cant pick a no-name.

    Mitt has to pick a name that right away smacks everyone as a strong tea party type conservative.

    If Mitt picks a no-name like how McCain picked Sarah alin, he might as well give up .

    There are just too many recordings of Mitt making strong pro-Abortion statements , and in the general election these will be played non-stop on PBS and MSNBC and in time Mitt can just forget about beating Obama...

    Without the correct VP to stand next to him, Mitt dont have a chance....
    Last edited by alanmolstad; 11-29-2011 at 07:25 PM.

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    Yes..this is true...But I should have added a word to make my point more clear...

    There are just too many recordings of Mitt making strong pro-Abortion statements , and in the general election these will be played non-stop on PBS and MSNBC and in time Mitt can just forget about beating Obama...

    Without the correct VP to stand next to him, Mitt dont have a chance....
    I can see his more liberal leanings could be a problem especially in this day and age where everything has been recorded. That said, do you think a politician always stays the course? I mean, Perry was a democrat. Reagan was a democrat. Are people not allowed to grow and change?
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  15. #115
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    do you think a politician always stays the course? ....

    a 'politician understands that they will NEVER free themselves of the name "Flip-flopper" if they go from one extreme to the other.


    Thus you do not see many real politicians changing their views once they start answering questions.

    The other thing that is important is that when a person does change their mind, we have to be carefull as to how quickly the person did.
    by this I mean that we got to look at such things with a bit of doubt.....

    We have to always look at a politician's claim to have 'seen the light" and changed their mind on an issue with the eye that they might not be telling the full story.



    I can understand a person changing their mind on a issue after years of soul-searching and after a slow movement to a different position.

    But I do not really have much trust in a person if they have a lifetime of being on one side of an issue, then suddenly after talking to one person, or seeing something on Tv or reading one paragraph of a book , they have a 180 flip of a position, and now they are all 100% in support of the other way.

    Yes, history has shown us that every once in a while God meets a Saul on the road....But is that what I take Mitt's story to be about his many flips over the last few years?....

    Nope!, not for a second

    To me that sounds like one of 2 things.

    #1 - it sounds fake.

    By this I mean it sounds like the politician just knew he needed to switch positions on a issue that no longer was as popular as it once was, and so they say"I see the light" and flip positions.

    or...

    #2 - it a sign of being without a rudder

    By this I mean that the person seems to be saying that can be 100% behind one position, and then be ****n to the other position after just a little work.
    In that case, it really does not matter what position the guys claims now, it's moot because in a week he could be back to the original position , and week after that flipped again...



    because even right now, even as i write this Mitt is in the middle of flipping his positions on all the problems he has with Conservatives such as myself.

    I was sent an email with some of the concerns that Christians have about Mitt, http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=361029 and they are REAL concerns!

    And in every case i see listed, Im watching now Mitt is flipping on the issue to make it less of a damage to him.

    That's one of the differences between him in a more conservative person.
    a conservative would have a strong starting position that is who they are at their core....

    The conservative person's core becomes the foundation of the strong house they are as a person.


    I dont think Mitt has a core that he is....

    Mitt is more like a wind sock .....



    So while the fact that Mitt now 'claims' to be against Abortion, I still don't believe his story behind this flip and all the other flips that he is sending up the flag pole this election.
    the story Mitt tells, is well... to me it just sounds "aimed' at me.

    Like a person wanted me to believe that Mitt had a "Saul, Saul' moment and came away changed from it.
    It seems too much aimed at Christians.....too much in-line with what we are supposed to respond to.
    Last edited by alanmolstad; 11-29-2011 at 09:52 PM.

  16. #116
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    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    a 'politician understands that they will NEVER free themselves of the name "Flip-flopper" if they go from one extreme to the other.


    Thus you do not see many real politicians changing their views once they start answering questions.
    I've actually seen this many times...haven't you? The last that was made public was on the debt ceiling when Obama changed his mind (and his vote) from supporting it to not supporting it.

    The other thing that is important is that when a person does change their mind, we have to be carefull as to how quickly the person did.
    by this I mean that we got to look at such things with a bit of doubt.....

    We have to always look at a politician's claim to have 'seen the light" and changed their mind on an issue with the eye that they might not be telling the full story.
    Agreed, but Mitt's voting record was pro-life when he was the governor of M***. and so this change did not come about when he was running for president.


    Yes, history has shown us that every once in a while God meets a Saul on the road....But is that what I take Mitt's story to be about his many flips over the last few years?....
    What are the flips you see? You have mentioned abortion--what others?


    because even right now, even as i write this Mitt is in the middle of flipping his positions on all the problems he has with Conservatives such as myself.

    I was sent an email with some of the concerns that Christians have about Mitt, http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=361029 and they are REAL concerns!

    And in every case i see listed, Im watching now Mitt is flipping on the issue to make it less of a damage to him.
    List please.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

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  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    Watching:

    1) Protecting the M***. abortion laws.
    2) I have heard the whole time-table speech, Mitt basically said that everybody should know their goals. He didn't say to telegraph it--that is a misrepresentation.
    3) Mitt has not changed his stance on global warming as far as I am aware.
    4) His stimulus package was much smaller than what was p***ed. The stimulus is good economics. Basically, our laws are set that when a recession hits, an automatic stimulus goes into effect for unemployment and medicaid. This is a safety net for people.
    5) His TARP statements are correct and he has not gone back on this. The banks cannot function, by law, without a certain amount of reserves. Had TARP not p***ed, banks would have shut down and no longer been able to loan. Our country would have seen a lot worse of a recession.
    6) I haven't seen his gun laws completely.
    7) Immigration policy clearly changed after 9/11 and now were seen as a possible threat. Immigration also changed based on the recession and our symbiotic relationship that we had in the past.
    8) We have discussed the mandate issue. I am not sure if Romney has changed his stance on this.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

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    Another video to watch. Tell me what you think.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWKTO...ature=youtu.be
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  20. #120
    alanmolstad
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    See Julie, the pro-abortion statements he has already made will mean that conservatives will NEVER in a million years support him.

    It doesn't matter what he says now..

    The fact that he might have claimed to have flipped on the issue is moot.

    This means that Mitt has to wrap himself with a VP pick that no conservative will question.

    The healthcare mandate statements, are also enough to drive conservatives like myself away...


    This is why the conservatives want so much for anyone else to win...
    Mitt is not a conservative and i want to vote for a conservative.

  21. #121
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    this is why, when I look at the videos I have posted dealing with Mitt, Im just so fed up with him!

    If it were up to me, Mitt would drop out now...

  22. #122
    alanmolstad
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    The fact that he is not a Christian?...well.....when i put that on top of the rest of this pile...it sure doesn't help his case....


    The key will be if Mitt has a loss early and the conservatives gather around the other name....

    Iowa is moot,
    Iowa does not matter, as long as Mitt is close.

    But over the following few contests we do find the make-or-break moment for Mitt.

    Mitt has to win big in NH or the whole Party will turn on him like you wont believe.

  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    See Julie, the pro-abortion statements he has already made will mean that conservatives will NEVER in a million years support him.

    It doesn't matter what he says now..

    The fact that he might have claimed to have flipped on the issue is moot.

    This means that Mitt has to wrap himself with a VP pick that no conservative will question.

    The healthcare mandate statements, are also enough to drive conservatives like myself away...


    This is why the conservatives want so much for anyone else to win...
    Mitt is not a conservative and i want to vote for a conservative.
    Hmmm, when I listened to the tape, it said that he would not change the M***. laws regarding abortion. He was also the governor when a more liberal abortion law came to his desk and he did not support it.

    Did you watch the other video regarding Newt? Curious what you think.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    The fact that he is not a Christian?...well.....when i put that on top of the rest of this pile...it sure doesn't help his case....


    The key will be if Mitt has a loss early and the conservatives gather around the other name....

    Iowa is moot,
    Iowa does not matter, as long as Mitt is close.

    But over the following few contests we do find the make-or-break moment for Mitt.

    Mitt has to win big in NH or the whole Party will turn on him like you wont believe.
    Did you watch the video on Newt? What do you think about his lobbying and making so much money off of Freddie and Fannie? Or that he also supports mandates and global warming? I think the "christians" are putting up another John McCain---long term politician with little business experience.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  25. #125
    alanmolstad
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    actually Christian conservatives like myself were totally against Mccain.

    and he never once tried to seek my vote.

    and he lost.

    That's the lessen to be learned here.

    Christian conservatives are the heart of the Party, and if you want to win the general election, you better pack your team with people that speak to my issues with the words I use.

    McCain had stabbed in the back every cause I believe in.
    Mitt also has stabbed in the back every cause I believe in.

    The thing Mitt has to do if he wins the Primary is pick a real winner for a VP....and also drop a few names of strong Christian conservatives as the people he will bring to Washington with him.

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