Is it dishonest to tell the truth?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Sir

Ahhh.....the old dodge, duck, evasion and, in this instance, DISHONEST answer since I asked for YOUR tax return and knowing this you changed my request to simply asking for 'a' tax return.

No duck at all I have never once asked you about an individual member's tax return or their contribution. This is about the Church organization not individuals. I provided you with the Samaritan's Purse Tax return. Care to provide the same from your organization?


http://www.samaritanspurse.org/pdf/2010_Form990.pdf

[Sir]

Originally Posted by Billyray

No duck at all....

It's really okay, billyray. I don't really want to see your tax returns. I just wanted to make my point clear, and you did such a good *** for me. YOU may not call it ducking, but anyone reading this thread is probably shaking their head and wondering if you really believe the things you say and do and how you can say and do them and turn around and say you AREN'T doing them.

And you want to have a discussion about being honest?

LOL

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Sir

It's really okay, billyray. I don't really want to see your tax returns.

Can you point out where I even once talked about individual tax returns or individual donations. And can you tell me what on earth my tax returns or your tax returns has anything to do with how the LDS spends it's money?

This is simply a diversion on your part to take the heat off of the LDS church. Anyone reading this thread will see your tactics.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Sir

LOL

Did you look at the tax return for Samaritan's Purse?

Does the LDS church provide any tax returns for us to look at?

[Sir]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Can you point out where I even once talked about individual tax returns or individual donations. And can you tell me what on earth my tax returns or your tax returns has anything to do with how the LDS spends it's money?

This is simply a diversion on your part to take the heat off of the LDS church. Anyone reading this thread will see your tactics.

My tactic should be plain for all to see, of course!

You want to see the financial records of someone who you have no business with, which since it's none of your business your request is moot.

I have no business with your finances, so to be fair to your request, I would like you to provide your financial records to me.

The OBVIOUS point that you CHOOSE to avoid is that you are a hypocrite for demanding that others show you their money (of which you have no business with) when you are unwilling to do the same when asked of you.

You call it a diversion. I call it showing how "honest" you are being in your "honesty" thread.

[Sir]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Did you look at the tax return for Samaritan's Purse?

Does the LDS church provide any tax returns for us to look at?

I don't have any interest (business or otherwise) with that group so I don't have a reason to look at their finances. i don't care.

That's the point.

You have no business with the LDS finances, so the fact that you care what they do with their money shows some kind of problem you have.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Sir

You want to see the financial records of someone who you have no business with, which since it's none of your business your request is moot.

So this justifies the Mormon church in your mind to hide where the money goes?

Why do other churches offer to show where their money goes and yet the LDS church does not?

[Sir]

Originally Posted by Billyray

So this justifies the Mormon church in your mind to hide where the money goes?

Why do other churches offer to show where their money goes and yet the LDS church does not?

So why do some people show their tax returns, but you do not?

(like shooting fish in a barrel)

[Snow Patrol]

Bottom line is that the LDS believe ***hes and offerings are really the Lord's money. What the Lord and His servants want to do with the money is up to them. Who am I to tell the Lord what to do with His money and require that He report back to me on His stewardship with that money?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Sir

So why do some people show their tax returns, but you do not?

Because it has nothing to do with the individual but with the organization.

What purpose is there to show my taxes or your taxes. I don't quite follow you reasoning here.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Snow Patrol

Bottom line is that the LDS believe ***hes and offerings are really the Lord's money. What the Lord and His servants want to do with the money is up to them. Who am I to tell the Lord what to do with His money and require that He report back to me on His stewardship with that money?

For a large organization to hide where they spent their money simply raises a big red flag.

[Snow Patrol]

Well, why don't you tell us what church you go to so we can all find things to nit-pick about your church.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Sir

Sure.

Simply saying that Mormons believe Jesus and Satan are brothers without explaining the context.....

The context is that Satan wants to be seen as being equal to god...that's his dream, that's his goal, that what he has wanted from the beginning.

To be seen as being equal to god.

But the problem is that none of the angels, fallen or faithful, actually will ever believe for a second that Satan is equal to god.
So this means that Satan has to appear equal to God to men.
Angels are not fooled, but men are always easy to fool if they don't know the Bible.

Thus Satan has been able to reach his goal of appearing equal to god within the Mormon church.
The moment the Mormons started to teach that Jesus and Satan are brothers, it was the same as saying that Satan is equal to god, (the reason being that Jesus is God)


This is why I think that not only is Mormonism wrong, it's evil.

[theway]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

The context is that Satan wants to be seen as being equal to god...that's his dream, that's his goal, that what he has wanted from the beginning.

To be seen as being equal to god.

But the problem is that none of the angels, fallen or faithful, actually will ever believe for a second that Satan is equal to god.
So this means that Satan has to appear equal to God to men.
Angels are not fooled, but men are always easy to fool if they don't know the Bible.

Thus Satan has been able to reach his goal of appearing equal to god within the Mormon church.
The moment the Mormons started to teach that Jesus and Satan are brothers, it was the same as saying that Satan is equal to god, (the reason being that Jesus is God)


This is why I think that not only is Mormonism wrong, it's evil.

Once you err not knowing the scriptures....
Satan's sin was not that he wanted to be equal to god.

Back to the books.... Or should I say The Book.

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by theway

Once you err not knowing the scriptures....
Satan's sin was not that he wanted to be equal to god.

Back to the books.... Or should I say The Book.

What was Satan's sin?

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

What was Satan's sin?

I think it was Pride...

Remember RealFakehair- that Satan wants to be equal with God.

Now clearly he knows that there is only one God, and that he will never actually be God, so this points us to the answer that Satan wants to be seen as God.

That is the form of equality with God that Satan seems after with his statement - "I will be like the Most High"

So that is why I believe that within the teachings of Smith we see Satan actually reach the goal he has been seeking all this time.
The moment the Mormons started teaching that Satan and Jesus were brothers, it was just what Satan wanted to hear..

because as we all know, Jesus is God almighty, when the Mormons made Satan the brother of jesus they made Satan equal with God Almighty.

[alanmolstad]

The Mormon Jesus is just the brother of Satan......its a fact.....

and Billy is correct to point this fact out to all in the beginning of any conversation he sees fit

[Christian]

Originally Posted by Sir

That's my point.

As a Mormon, I couldn't care less where your church, or any other church spends its money or how much it brings in, or on what the money is used. Why? Because it does not concern me at all.

And yet, Mormon-critics often attack the church for their financial practices.

And funnier still, the people that actually actively and cheerfully give money to the church don't even care. Why? Because we have faith the money is in the care of honest stewards of it. And if not, that is on them, not me.

To say that people don't care where the money they spend goes is ludicrous. Mormons OFTEN attack us by telling us we have bankrupt churches and they don't. . .MONEY claims. . .so why should you whine when WE bring the subject up.

BTW even the faithful CATHOLICS have shown concern for their religion's misspending of THE MONEY THEY GAVE being used to pay for legal costs arising from their HIDING OF PEDOPHILE PRIESTS.

Mormons are no different. THEY are human beings too, and MANY of them are just as sinful as anyone else. So your bishop, stake president and others are just as likely to steal from the kitty as Judas was.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by Billyray

2. Is it dishonest to hide things from people like secret ceremonies, deeper doctrine, ...

You tell us, Billyray:


Revelation 2:17----King James Version (KJV)

17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

You tell us, Billyray:


Revelation 2:17----King James Version (KJV)

17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

The whereabouts of Mr Billy are a mystery to many here...
I have asked around but there is no word....perhaps he might get a notice email that someone has responded to something he once posted and he might answer?