The Thief

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Truly amazing that you don't understand my response. The only thing required is faith. BTW I don't consider the thief's actions as works.

Billyray---the only thing required is grace (as a young infant can die and go to heaven without faith our works). I think we agree on that.

As such, the discussion is not what it takes to be saved---but more whether or not one can have faith without works. That said, would Christ have saved the thief if the thief hung on the cross and did nothing instead of what he did which was 1) defend Christ, 2) confess he was a sinner, and 3) ask Christ to remember him. Would Christ have given his grace to the thief if the thief hung there silent. A simple yes or no is all it takes Billyray.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Billyray---the only thing required is grace (as a young infant can die and go to heaven without faith our works). I think we agree on that.

If the only requirement is grace then everyone should be exalted.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

If the only requirement is grace then everyone should be exalted.

No, without grace, none could be exalted---so, grace is an absolute requirement for salvation. Don't you agree.

That said, who does Christ give his grace to? Does He give it to those with dead faith or living faith? Would He give His grace to the thief if the thief hung on the cross and said nothing? You still have not answered this question.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

No, without grace, none could be exalted---so, grace is an absolute requirement for salvation. Don't you agree.

Faith is required, with the exception of infants and the mentally challenged.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Faith is required, with the exception of infants and the mentally challenged.

Billyray--once you make the exception, it is like saying--it is required, except when it is not.

Do you agree, that without grace--no one would be saved. It would not matter if you have faith, it would not matter if you have works--without grace, salvation is impossible. Would you agree?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Billyray--once you make the exception, it is like saying--it is required, except when it is not.

We are saved by the grace of God when we place our faith in Christ. That is what is required.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

It would not matter if you have faith, it would not matter if you have works--without grace, salvation is impossible.

Sure it would matter because if a person has faith in Christ he will be saved and this is by the grace of God.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Billyray--once you make the exception, it is like saying--it is required, except when it is not.

It doesn't change the requirement only that God has mercy on those that are incapable to make that decision on their own. For example it is against the law to take a candy bar from the store. An able bodied person will be charged for theft but an infant will be let off the hook because they were incapable to to know better. This doesn't mean the law is not in effect.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

It doesn't change the requirement only that God has mercy on those that are incapable to make that decision on their own. For example it is against the law to take a candy bar from the store. An able bodied person will be charged for theft but an infant will be let off the hook because they were incapable to to know better. This doesn't mean the law is not in effect.

Yes, but doesn't it show that ultimately, the law is in the hand's of the Master and that ultimately, it is always His grace as to whether the penalty of the law is enforced or not?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Yes, but doesn't it show that ultimately, the law is in the hand's of the Master and that ultimately, it is always His grace as to whether the penalty of the law is enforced or not?

And he has told us what is required. Those who place their faith in him will be saved. Work do not contribute FOR salvation.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

And he has told us what is required. Those who place their faith in him will be saved. Work do not contribute FOR salvation.

And do you believe what is required of Him is to believe Him and then do nothing regarding what He tells you to do? Is that faith to you?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

And do you believe what is required of Him is to believe Him and then do nothing regarding what He tells you to do? Is that faith to you?

I believe that faith is required by us FOR salvation. Works do not contribute FOR salvation.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by Billyray

And he has told us what is required. Those who place their faith in him will be saved. Work do not contribute FOR salvation.

Then neither does faith:

James2:26--"For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Then neither does faith:

Faith is required.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Faith is required.

If faith is required--then how does one exclude obedience to Jesus Christ from that term:

James2:26--"For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."