My Take on Why Mormons Become Athiests

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

And you said the the same arguments that I use against Mormonism could be used against Christianity. Yet you have yet to validate this claim. I never once asked you about the 6 days of creation How about stepping up to the plate and proving your claim?

I am asking you do think a little deeper here Billyray. I am asking you why YOU believe what you do regarding the creation. You said that faith is based on evidence remember---so I am asking you to provide your evidence regarding this belief.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Okay---so--are you now saying that you can provide absolutely no proof regarding the creation? ?

Nor can anyone give us an eyewitness account of the creation of the universe. Do you think science gives us a eyewitness account of creation of the universe?

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

There is no doubt that there are eye witness accounts. The issue is whether or not a person believes those accounts. The same goes for an eye witness on the stand. He can give us his testimony and it is up to each person to decide if they believe that witness or not.

Okay, so---what do you do when someone questions these eye-witness accounts based on the scholarly works of others. Is that the only reason you believe is because of eye-witness accounts?

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Nor can anyone give us an eyewitness account of the creation of the universe. Do you think science gives us a eyewitness account of creation of the universe?

Okay---so, why do you believe the Biblical version of the creation as you have no proof to it--no eye-witnesses, nothing.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

I am asking you do think a little deeper here Billyray.

I asking you to back up your bogus claim. What arguments have I used that if used against Christianity would destroy it?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Okay---so, why do you believe the Biblical version of the creation as you have no proof to it--no eye-witnesses, nothing.

I have already told you on more than one occasion J.

Now who on earth can give you eyewitness testimony of the creation of the universe? What a bogus argument.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

I have already told you on more than one occasion J.

Now who on earth can give you eyewitness testimony of the creation of the universe? What a bogus argument.

Billyray---so, if no one can give an eye-witness, why do you believe it? And is the only reason you believe the Bible is the eye-witness accounts given later?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Billyray---so, if no one can give an eye-witness, why do you believe it?

You request is bogus because not a single person on this earth can give a eyewitness account of the creation of the universe.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

You request is bogus because not a single person on this earth can give a eyewitness account of the creation of the universe.

Billyray, I am asking YOU why you believe it? Why do you believe the Bible account of the creation? You readily admit it can't be because of an eye-witness account and so why do YOU believe it?

I am asking you, why do you have faith in the account of the creation?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Billyray, I am asking YOU why you believe it?

Give me a single person who has an eyewitness account of the beginning of the universe.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

I am asking you, why do you have faith in the account of the creation?

I have already told you why I believe it. If you are interested you can go back and read it again.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Give me a single person who has an eyewitness account of the beginning of the universe.

Billyray, as you readily acknowledge that NO ONE can have an eye-witness account of the Biblical creation, why do YOU believe it is true?

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

I have already told you why I believe it. If you are interested you can go back and read it again.

You said because of eye-witnesses who give an account of Christ and Christ tells us it is true, right?

But, now try to understand a person who also tries to understand something by an "eye-witness" account...what happens to that person when they are not sure about these "eye-witness" accounts because scholars using historical documents including ****ysis of the Bible say they are not accurate. What do you tell that person? Is the only thing they have to rely on eye-witness accounts?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Billyray, as you readily acknowledge that NO ONE can have an eye-witness account of the Biblical creation, why do YOU believe it is true?

Do scientists have an eyewitness account? No. As I said you request is a bogus one. And I have already given you my answer--go back and read it.

[Billyray]

Now when are you going to back up your bogus claim that the arguments that I have used can be used to destroy Christianity?

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Do scientists have an eyewitness account? No. As I said you request is a bogus one. And I have already given you my answer--go back and read it.

Billyray, are you pretending to be d.ense, or do you really not understanding what I am asking? I am not saying that scientists have an eye-witness account. I am not saying that anyone has an eye-witness account. What I am asking you is BECAUSE there are no eye-witness accounts, why do you believe it?

I believe you said it was because of the eye-witness accounts of Jesus Christ. BUT, what about those who question these accounts and believe the argument of scholars (such as I showed you.) Do you have no other way in which a person can believe the creation other than the eye-witness accounts of Christ?

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Now when are you going to back up your bogus claim that the arguments that I have used can be used to destroy Christianity?

I am trying to get you to answer a simple question and have not even succeeded at that yet.

My question is, if someone questions the reliability of an eye-witness account of Christ, do you have anything else in which a person can gain a testimony of the Biblical creation?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

I believe you said it was because of the eye-witness accounts of Jesus Christ. BUT, what about those who question these accounts and believe the argument of scholars (such as I showed you.) Do you have no other way in which a person can believe the creation other

Any eye witness gives a testimony and each person has to determine if they believe that testimony. There is no doubt that we have eye witness testimony of Jesus. Some will believe these witnesses and some will not. I happen to be one who believes that testimony.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Any eye witness gives a testimony and each person has to determine if they believe that testimony. There is no doubt that we have eye witness testimony of Jesus. Some will believe these witnesses and some will not. I happen to be one who believes that testimony.

So, what makes the difference between one who believes the testimony and the one who doubts these testimonies based on the scholarship of others? Why do you not believe scholars when they say that these testimonies give an inaccurate picture of history based on their ****ysis?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Why do you not believe scholars when they say that these testimonies give an inaccurate picture of history based on their ****ysis?

Each critic has a specific reason so it depend on the specific critic. Pick one and we could talk about it. For example one critic would be the Mormon church itself. They claim plain and precious things have been removed. I disagree. Prove your case.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Each critic has a specific reason so it depend on the specific critic. Pick one and we could talk about it. For example one critic would be the Mormon church itself. They claim plain and precious things have been removed. I disagree. Prove your case.

I asked you why you don't believe the critics (scholars) regarding the accuracy of the history of the Bible. Why believe one critic over another? Why ignore the ones you do?

That is the question I asked and one you have yet to answer. What do you tell the person who questions the eye-witness account and believes the critic over you? What makes you choose to ignore these critics regarding the Bible?

You said "prove you case." I am asking you how you do the same. How do you prove your case when you have scholars criticizing the Bible as historically accurate and you have no eye-witness of the creation--in fact, you have no record until Moses. So, how do you direct the person who believes the critic of the Bible? What do you tell them?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

I asked you why you don't believe the critics (scholars) regarding the accuracy of the history of the Bible. Why believe one critic over another?

Each critic has a different claim. Let's start with the LDS church which is a big critic of the reliability of the Bible. Make you claims as to why you believe the NT is inaccurate and then I will respond.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Each critic has a different claim.

Yes, so why do you believe one critic over another? That is the question you have yet to answer.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Yes, so why do you believe one critic over another? That is the question you have yet to answer.

I am more than happy to answer J. Let's start with the critic you are most familiar with and that is the Mormon church. Do you want to know why I don't believe your claims with respect to criticism of the Bible? let's talk about it OK?

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Yes, so why do you believe one critic over another? That is the question you have yet to answer.

Just because they expose different he****s of mormonism doesn't mean that they are in conflict on any area of their study.. Just that they have more to say on one subject than an other..

Some point out the problem with eternal marriage. Others the idea of God being a created being. I think it's better to know all you can about the total error that in mormonism.. So which one do I believe.. All who have approached mormonism from a scholarly position.. IHS jim