My Take on Why Mormons Become Athiests

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Without the Book of Mormon and your faith based based on the B of M would you find the Bible reliable or unreliable?

I would still find the Bible reliable based on how I draw my conclusions that make it reliable which is faith, spiritual experiences, and the proof of my life--which is what I concluded earlier. But, the Book of Mormon reinforces my faith in the Bible; which was my point.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Yes, I am sure out of context it might appear that way, which is why you need to continue reading and put it in context.

It is critical in context.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

I would still find the Bible reliable based on how I draw my conclusions that make it reliable which is faith, spiritual experiences, and the proof of my life--which is what I concluded earlier.

What you are saying is that without your faith in the Book of Mormon to support your belief in the Bible you find the Bible unreliable.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

What you are saying is that without your faith in the Book of Mormon to support your belief in the Bible you find the Bible unreliable.

Read it again Billyray. I refuse to keep answering your same questions put in a different way to see if I will say something different.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Read it again Billyray. I refuse to keep answering your same questions put in a different way to see if I will say something different.

I read it again and it is clear that to you the Bible is not sufficiently reliable on its own for you.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

I read it again and it is clear that to you the Bible is not sufficiently reliable on its own for you.

Billyray, one of the things you do when trying to make your point is that you decide what you THINK we believe (as noted with this post) rather than try to understand us and then keep pecking away at that point (like a hen).

So, this thread is about why Mormons become athiests. Can I just add another thought to this. Is it possible that Mormons become athiests because once their faith is destroyed by such tactics as this that they also do not want to ***ociate themselves with a group that uses such tactics?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

So, this thread is about why Mormons become athiests. Can I just add another thought to this. Is it possible that Mormons become athiests because once their faith is destroyed by such tactics as this that they also do not want to ***ociate themselves with a group that uses such tactics?

And your point was the Bible is not sufficiently reliable for you that is why faith in the Book of Mormon helps you with your faith in the Bible.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

And your point was the Bible is not sufficiently reliable for you that is why faith in the Book of Mormon helps you with your faith in the Bible.

As noted, the pecking continues. Peck, peck, peck.

[neverending]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Billyray, one of the things you do when trying to make your point is that you decide what you THINK we believe (as noted with this post) rather than try to understand us and then keep pecking away at that point (like a hen).

So, this thread is about why Mormons become athiests. Can I just add another thought to this. Is it possible that Mormons become athiests because once their faith is destroyed by such tactics as this that they also do not want to ***ociate themselves with a group that uses such tactics?

BJ: Could it also be that since all LDS are taught that their church is the only TRUE CHURCH and all other faiths are frowned upon because of this teaching, that when a Mormon does leave the fold, they leave bewildered and very often end up atheists? It makes me very sad when I hear that that has happened to someone....to totally turn your back on God is certainly not the right way to go. And, why doesn't your Church do more to reach out to those members who are inactive and find out why they've become so? This problem isn't only in your Church but affects all faiths, as fewer and fewer people find a need to attend church. Isn't this also a sign of the times?

[neverending]

Originally Posted by Sir

Um, okay. I guess if you consider my OP to be angry and violent, who am I to say you cannot hold such an erroneous position? It does tell me a little about how you perceive things, though.



Um, okay. I never called your post a "tirade", so if that is your argument it again confirms to me how you [mis]perceive things.



That's fine. My thread is not devoted to you specifically, so if you felt the need to personalize it and then call it disingenuous because you don't fit the description, who am I to tell you you cannot feel that way?




I'm sorry that you missed that. Maybe it was too subtle. Here it is in Cliff-notes version: when critics attack the LDS church but refuse to share what they believe they have as truth, if someone leaves the LDS faith because of the critic they do not have anything to replace their lost faith since the critic's only objective was to tear down.




Thanks for sharing your opinion.

Sir,
When I am wrong I admit it. You didn't call my post a tirade but a diatribe which still was insulting. So, now a Christian has actually admitted they were wrong.....see, we're not all evil Anyway, my post was not angry nor violent but had something very important that I wish you had taken time to read so I am going to repost it:

Sir,
So sorry the kidding is ALL YOURS! For you live a lie everyday, following a false prophet a man who'd steal the coppers off a dead man's eyes. A liar, a great con artist, a traitor to our country and a man who couldn't even get it straight as to who he saw in his proclaimed visions. I proclaim the falsehoods of Mormonism for knowing the truths about it, and knowing that ALL Mormons with their strange doctrines are doomed to the Lake of Fire, I can not and will not stand by idly and not try to tell people, to warn them. An example: say I was going for my daily morning walk. You happen to be one of my neighbors. It's early around 6 am on a sa****ay. As I approach your house I see smoke and flames pouring out of one window. Do I just walk on by or do I call 911? What you're saying is that you'd rather I walk on by then call for help. How very sad indeed. After all, you wouldn't want me to disturb your sleep because I wanted to save your life and the life of your family; is this using good wisdom?

"God's wisdom is so far above our human understanding that we consider it foolishness. For centuries, humanity has tried to make sense of this world with philosophies and theories, because it could not grasp the Truth of God. Only God's wisdom will lead us on the right path. "For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God" (1 Corinthians 1:18).

Human wisdom may show us the problems of life, but it fails to give us the solutions. The root of all of our problems is sin, which humanity refuses to acknowledge. The unrepentant heart justifies and explains away sinful behavior.

Human wisdom asks, "Who needs the Cross when we are good people?" However, human intellect cannot save us from an eternity in hell. "There is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end it leads to death" (Proverbs 16:25).

People consider the Cross foolishness because admitting their sinfulness and the need for Christ's redemption means they must also surrender to God. They must give up their own wisdom and glory for God's. And most people are unwilling to admit God's ways are better than theirs". (http://www.leadingtheway.org/site/Ne...ews_iv_ctrl=-1)

I so hope you took the time to read my post. My being here is not to be entertained as some have admitted but to come and share what I have learned and hopefully show people my love for my Savior. Forgive me when I do show anger but I am not perfect, no one can be in these earthly bodies. If I have failed then it is my sin and it rests on my shoulders.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by neverending

BJ: Could it also be that since all LDS are taught that their church is the only TRUE CHURCH and all other faiths are frowned upon because of this teaching, that when a Mormon does leave the fold, they leave bewildered and very often end up atheists? It makes me very sad when I hear that that has happened to someone....to totally turn your back on God is certainly not the right way to go. And, why doesn't your Church do more to reach out to those members who are inactive and find out why they've become so? This problem isn't only in your Church but affects all faiths, as fewer and fewer people find a need to attend church. Isn't this also a sign of the times?

One, I am not sure about your hypothesis as I have not left the church; I can only speak of what I see here happening which is that sites like this do more to destroy faith in Christ in general first by their tactics and second by their tactics. Meaning, the tactics used to destroy the Mormon's faith also destroy faith in Christianity in general and second, the tactics used are so unchristian that they may put a negative ***ociation with christianity.

Lastly, we do try to reach out to those who are leaving or have become inactive. We care a lot. If you know the amount of prayers and help offered (at least in my experience), you would not say such a thing. But ultimately, we don't force anything and God allows everyone to choose for themselves.

The reason I think fewer and fewer people attend church is the direct result of WM and those that do as he has done. When a door is opened (can I call it arrogance and hypocricy) to criticize other churches, it opens the door for all churches to be criticized. What a parent models to his/her child is mocking/laughing/belittling/criticizing another's beliefs. Am I at all then suprised that the next generation after the Martinians would leave church all together? NO.

This makes me curious---how are your own children when it comes to christianity? Are they all strong in the faith?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Meaning, the tactics used to destroy the Mormon's faith also destroy faith in Christianity in general

You have said this now a couple of times can you elaborate for me what you mean?

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

You have said this now a couple of times can you elaborate for me what you mean?

Any tactic you use to criticize us can be turned on you as you likewise believe what you do based on faith. Or do you not believe what you do based on faith?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

The reason I think fewer and fewer people attend church is the direct result of WM and those that do as he has done.

WM or the WM board?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Any tactic you use to criticize us can be turned on you as you likewise believe what you do based on faith.

OK let's test your theory. One of the reasons that I don't believe the book of Mormon is that there is no ancient m****cript evidence.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Any tactic you use to criticize us can be turned on you as you likewise believe what you do based on faith.

One reason that I don't believe Mormonism is that it's teachings are not consistent with teachings in the Bible.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

OK let's test your theory. One of the reasons that I don't believe the book of Mormon is that there is no ancient m****cript evidence.

Wait--are you saying that you don't believe the Bible based on faith, but on evidence?

Show me evidence that the earth was created in 7 days if you want to use scientific "evidence" to support your beliefs.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

One reason that I don't believe Mormonism is that it's teachings are not consistent with teachings in the Bible.

I believe they are. In fact, when you show me how you read the Bible (which you even admit disagrees with what other christians at times say), then I don't look to the way you read the Bible to provide "proof" of what is right or not.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

WM or the WM board?

The tactics used by Walter Martin and those like him has unleashed acceptance of these types of unchristian tactics in Christian homes. Hence, what goes around, comes around.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Wait--are you saying that you don't believe the Bible based on faith, but on evidence?

Faith is based on evidence.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Faith is based on evidence.

Hbr 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Okay, since you believe that faith is based on evidence---please provide your evidence that the world was created in 7 days as taught in the Bible.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Show me evidence that the earth was created in 7 days if you want to use scientific "evidence" to support your beliefs.

Sure. Jesus is God and he validated the truthfulness of the OT scriptures. We have evidence of Jesus and his claims via the NT records.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Sure. Jesus is God and he validated the truthfulness of the OT scriptures. We have evidence of Jesus and his claims via the NT records.

Circular argument. Please provide proof outside of the scriptures that the world was created in 7 days.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

I believe they are.

Lets test your claim.

Where does the Bible teach that there is a heavenly mother?

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Lets test your claim.

Where does the Bible teach that there is a heavenly mother?

I am providing the test for my claim.

What is your evidence, that is not circular and from within the scriptures, that show that the world was created in 7 days.

If your criticisms of me stem from the Bible, then you must first prove to me that the Bible is correct. (Remember, we are discussing why Mormoms become athiests and I said that the same tactics used against my faith can be used against yours.--so in this test, you cannot use your beliefs to attack mine, you must see if yours will stand up to the same scrutinty.)

So, once again, what is your proof that the earth was created in 7 days.

Personally, I think you bring up an old attack because you realize that you can't defend your faith using the same tactics you use against mine.

Come on Billyray, you said that to you "faith is based on evidence." Where is your evidence?