My Take on Why Mormons Become Athiests

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

There is no evidence that pre-dates Moses that the earth was created in 7 days. Please provide your outside evidence that is was.

I never said that there was evidence that pre dates Moses.

Can you show me evidence that pre dates Moses for the age of the earth being billions of years old?

[Billyray]

Why isn't there any ancient m****cripts for the Book of Mormon.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

I never said that there was evidence that pre dates Moses.

Can you show me evidence that pre dates Moses for the age of the earth being billions of years old?

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/dalr...age_earth.html

There is ample scientific evidence that the earth is billions of years old. Read this site for starters.

Now, you still did not even answer my question regarding whether you agreed with the statement from a christian site that you often refer to. If I were a christian arguing against Mormonism, I would say that you are dodging, running away, ignoring, trying to divert, etc.

Billyray, do you remember what this thread is about. To me, you adamently trying to back your beliefs against science is no different than me trying to back my beliefs against your "proof." Why then would someone, when they leave Mormonism, go to athiesm. Because in destroying the faith of other religions, you destroy faith in christianity. Now, you can argue until you are blue in the face that it is not the same--but the fact of the matter, it doesn't matter if you think it is the same or not it matters if THEY think it is the same.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Why isn't there any ancient m****cripts for the Book of Mormon.

Why isn't there any ancient m****cripts from Abraham? Did Moses make the whole thing up?

I can show you many m****cipts of the Book of Mormon is you would like---I have many of them lying around my house as we speak--if having multiple copies of a scripture makes them true and in 2,000 years, my m****cripts will be just as old, thus proving that they are true (according to you.)

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/dalr...age_earth.html

There is ample scientific evidence that the earth is billions of years old. Read this site for starters.

I never argued the age of the earth J so this is a red herring.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

I never argued the age of the earth J so this is a red herring.

Another tactic thrown around. I asked you if you agree with the Christian site you often refer to.

"it becomes apparent that the Bible teaches the earth to be about 6000 years old, give or take a few hundred years."

Do you agree with this statement Billyray?

See, you can't prove that the earth was created in 7 days and you will not even acknowledge whether or not these christians (who you often quote) are right or not.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Because in destroying the faith of other religions, you destroy faith in christianity. .

That is absolutely false. Faith in Christianity is based on existing evidence. The Book of Mormon has no evidence to support it that predates Joseph. This is a huge difference between Mormonism and Christianity.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Another tactic thrown around. I asked you if you agree with the Christian site you often refer to.

"it becomes apparent that the Bible teaches the earth to be about 6000 years old, give or take a few hundred years."

Do you agree with this statement Billyray?

See, you can't prove that the earth was created in 7 days and you will not even acknowledge whether or not these christians (who you often quote) are right or not.

First the Bible doesn't say how old the earth is nor did I argue the age of the earth so this is a straw man.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

That is absolutely false. Faith in Christianity is based on existing evidence. The Book of Mormon has no evidence to support it that predates Joseph. This is a huge difference between Mormonism and Christianity.

Okay...I am not going to argue with you anymore. It is clear that you are criticizing the mote in my eye and ignoring your own beam. You keep believing whatever you want Billyray.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Okay...I am not going to argue with you anymore. It is clear that you are criticizing the mote in my eye and ignoring your own beam. You keep believing whatever you want Billyray.

The point is that you are wrong J. I asked you specifically about ancient Book of Mormon m****cripts. How can this argument be used against Christians?

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

The point is that you are wrong J. I asked you specifically about ancient Book of Mormon m****cripts. How can this argument be used against Christians?

It is obvious that you don't get it Billyray. I have tried to show you why, but then you start using the same defenses that Mormons use and you still don't get it. *sigh*

I'll tell you what, go find a Mormon who became an athiest and argue it out with them.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

It is obvious that you don't get it Billyray. I have tried to show you why, but then you start using the same defenses that Mormons use and you still don't get it.

I do get it. You believe in a book that claims to be a historical record of people living in the Americas but there is absolutely not evidence for this. Compare this to the Bible which claims to be a historical record and you can find that people, places, artifacts, ancient m****cripts etc that actually existed. There is simply no comparison.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

I can show you many m****cipts of the Book of Mormon is you would like---I have many of them lying around my house as we speak--

Any date prior to Joseph?

Compare this to the NT m****cripts where we have thousands of ancient copies, in fact we have one that dates as far back as 125AD known as P52

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rylands...ry_Papyrus_P52

[Russianwolfe]

Originally Posted by Billyray

It is critical in context.

It was critical of the tactics of using history and archeaology to prove the spiritual truths of the Bible. When you examine the current evidence and current thinking of the scholars, the Bible is less reliable than you think. But when you accept the spiritual truths in the Bible and live by them, then you, as Christ points out:

John 7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

will find the the real truth of the Bible. The historical accuracy of the Bible does not dimish or increase its reliability in the realm of spiritual truth. But you can only realize the spiritual truths of the Bible or any scripture for that matter by living the truths not by researching the history of the Bible.

The spiritual truths of the Bible are wasted on those who think it is only good history.

Marvin

[Russianwolfe]

Originally Posted by Billyray

What you are saying is that without your faith in the Book of Mormon to support your belief in the Bible you find the Bible unreliable.

BUZZ!! Thanks for playing. Your unfounded conclusion has disqualified you from playing further. Good luck in the future and may God be with you.

Marvin

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Russianwolfe

BUZZ!! Thanks for playing. Your unfounded conclusion has disqualified you from playing further. Good luck in the future and may God be with you.

Marvin

By all means don't tell us what you do mean just play your silly games.. IHS jim

[Billyray]

Why do some Mormons leave and become atheists IMO?

1. They are not Christian as a Mormon and they remain non Christian when they leave

2. They are trained to believe that they belong to the only true church and when they start to see the inconsistencies in the doctrine they lose faith in all religion because they start from the false ***umption that if the LDS church is the only true church and it is false then all religions are false.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Why isn't there any ancient m****cripts from Abraham? Did Moses make the whole thing up?

I can show you many m****cripts of the Book of Mormon is you would like---I have many of them lying around my house as we speak--if having multiple copies of a scripture makes them true and in 2,000 years, my m****cripts will be just as old, thus proving that they are true (according to you.)

Show one of them.. Show any BofM m****cripts that predate Joseph Smith.. You state that as if it were true.. The only m****cripts you would have are those you copied yourself from the pages of the BofM.. There are no m****cripts of the BofM from ancient times, There were no Nephite people to write them EVER!! Did Moses speak to God? There is extrabiblical evidence that the story of the Exodus is true. And you have ZERO evidence for the BofM coming from antiquity.. IHS jim

[neverending]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Why isn't there any ancient m****cripts from Abraham? Did Moses make the whole thing up?

I can show you many m****cipts of the Book of Mormon is you would like---I have many of them lying around my house as we speak--if having multiple copies of a scripture makes them true and in 2,000 years, my m****cripts will be just as old, thus proving that they are true (according to you.)

BJ: you speak about these m****cripts as if they are grocery store adds, "lying around my house as we speak." If you truly have such things, I would think that your church would want them so they could be locked away for safe keeping. Please do show us all, just one of these so called m****cripts you possess. I think if you have anything at all, it is some kind of fake copy. We all know there was never a language called, reformed Egyptian. NO WHERE has anyone found any tablet or papyrus with such writtings. No one can prove the existance of even one city mentioned in your BoM, why is that? Yet the cities mentioned in the Bible are still in existance and even archeologists have found the area where Sodom and Gomorrah once was located. Found on the southeastern tip of the Dead Sea.

[Sir]

Originally Posted by neverending

No one can prove the existance of even one city mentioned in your BoM, why is that?

Another one of those misrepresentations, neverending. You know, the ones you always claim never happen in your posts.

Jerusalem is mentioned in the Book of Mormon many times.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Sir

Another one of those misrepresentations, neverending. You know, the ones you always claim never happen in your posts.

Jerusalem is mentioned in the Book of Mormon many times.

Why do you think that there are no ancient m****cripts for the Book of Mormon that pre date Joseph and why haven't they found any cities in the Americas that are ancient Book of Mormon cities.

[Sir]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Why do you think that there are no ancient m****cripts for the Book of Mormon that pre date Joseph and why haven't they found any cities in the Americas that are ancient Book of Mormon cities.

Your question (?) doesn't follow my post.

Stay on topic!

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Sir

Your question (?) doesn't follow my post.

Stay on topic!

If you are honest with yourself you can only conclude that the Book of Mormon is not what it says it is but rather is religious fiction.

[Sir]

Originally Posted by Billyray

If you are honest with yourself you can only conclude that the Book of Mormon is not what it says it is but rather is religious fiction.

Well of course I wouldn't expect you to say anything different. It's the typical "Unless you see things as I do, you are the blind one that is lying to himself".

Thanks for opining!

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Sir

Well of course I wouldn't expect you to say anything different. It's the typical "Unless you see things as I do, you are the blind one that is lying to himself".

Thanks for opining!

Why should I believe that the Book of Mormon contains REAL history?