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Thread: Watch How Easy This Is

  1. #126
    Libby
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    Quote Originally Posted by neverending View Post
    MAN.....you just don't read very well. I was talking about my mother's idea that God couldn't put someone back together once they had been cremated. I had always been told that the LDS didn't think highly of people being cremated. So my ideas of god came from my mother and I found her reasoning a might silly.

    From and Aug. 1991 Ensign article an ***ociate professor of Church History and Doctrine asked the question about cremation.....
    "Where do Latter-day Saints fit into this picture? We reaffirm the perspective that the body is good and, as a creation of God, is to be respected. But as the Church has moved into nations other than the United States, there has been recognition that cultural practices differ. Generally, Latter-day Saints in the Western world have felt that nothing should be done which is destructive to the body. That should be left to nature. Church leaders have counseled that only in unusual circumstances or where required by law should cremation take place.
    Ultimately, after consultation with the Lord and with priesthood leaders, the family must decide what to do. If the person has been endowed, some special instructions are available for the family from local priesthood leaders. Even if a body is cremated, a funeral service may be held if the ashes are buried or deposited in a mausoleum.
    Where there is no overriding reason to cremate, burial is still the preferred method of handling our dead. In the end, however, we should remember that the resurrection will take place by the power of God, who created the heavens and the earth".

    You will have to excuse my mother, bless her soul since she's been gone 10 years now and I think she was a might confused at times.
    That at***ude has definitely changed. I served four years as Comp***ionate Service Leader, and I did a lot of funerals. Many LDS, today, are cremated. They do a "viewing" in the casket, for the funeral, and then they are cremated afterwards.

    The idea that the body should not be cremated was also a Christian belief. My grandparents and even my dad, along with most of my older relatives, were very anti-cremation.and none of them are LDS.

  2. #127
    Sir
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianH View Post
    I understand that you would kill your wife if you thought God told you to. You said so yourself. Yet you complain to the mod when I point out what YOU said. ....-BH

    .


    Ah ah ah......that's not being honest.

    (mod edit - NO BAITING)

  3. #128
    Sir
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    Quote Originally Posted by neverending View Post
    MAN.....you just don't read very well. I was talking about my mother's idea that God couldn't put someone back together once they had been cremated. I had always been told that the LDS didn't think highly of people being cremated. So my ideas of god came from my mother and I found her reasoning a might silly.
    I read fine. i know you said it was your mom's opinion. But before that you also said:

    "Sir, there is a great difference between the God you believe in as he couldn't even put a person back together after they were cremated."
    See? You were dishonest in claiming that the God I believe in is incapable of restoring a cremated person.

    Your mother's opinion has no bearing on what my God can do.


  4. #129
    BrianH
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libby View Post
    Where is it made clear that God would never ask that of someone? He did, in fact, ask that of someone.
    Where is it made clear that God asked anyone to kill their wife, Libby?

    Would you? And would you kill yourself if you thought God told you to?

    -BH

    .

  5. #130
    BrianH
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir View Post
    Ah ah ah......that's not being honest.
    So when YOU ask questions like this its "honest" but when I do its not?

    Thanks for proving my point, "Sir"!

    If you notice what "the mod" edited, it was these two comments you made:

    She felt you were baiting and taunting. You know, being divisive and provocative.
    Does your religion NOT teach you that you are a God?

    It had nothing to do with you repeating my answer that I would do whatever God commanded me.

    You were just dishonestly trying to whine that you got in trouble for something completely different.. LOL
    Why is it dishonest when I ask this question, but its ...what ..."honest"? when YOU do the same thing asking the same kind of question?

    Why do you live by one standard and require that I live by another?

    Do you really "think" that no one can see that you are evading my question?

    -BH

    .

  6. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by neverending View Post
    BJ: First, who's word is it, I mean who's word is found in the Bible? If it wasn't for the Bible you wouldn't have been able to even quote these parables or even say what Christ said, when He said, "come follow me". Julie, it is ONLY through Christ that one can have ETERNAL life and IT IS those VERY Scriptures that tell us so. 1 John 5:13, do go and read it. It is the one verse that I cling to and lean on everyday.
    It is a good verse--but as noted, salvation comess through the Son and therefore the scriptures lead us to Him. Hence, when God commanded Abraham to sacrifice Isaac, Abraham didn't rely on his past knowledge of God to decide what to do, but rather listened to God Himself. Once a person learns of God via the scriptures, it is a big mistake to then use the scriptures to ignore the Holy Ghost as the Pharisees and Saducees did.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  7. #132
    Libby
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianH View Post
    Where is it made clear that God asked anyone to kill their wife, Libby?

    Would you? And would you kill yourself if you thought God told you to?

    -BH

    .
    Not someone's wife, no, but he did command Abraham to sacrifice his son.

    As for the question, I don't believe God would ask that, and I'm pretty sure he didn't ask Abraham to do that, either. That's my personal view.

    But, I understand the underlying concept, regarding obedience to God.

  8. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by neverending View Post
    BJ: I do think you know the answer to your question. Christ could have come down off that cross at any time, NO one took his life, HE gave it up freely for you and me!! Had he come down off that cross, then we would have no hope, nothing! When our lives ended, all we would have to look forward to was Hell.....no resurrection, no Savior, nothing but outer darkness and torment. Course that is what we all deserve but our precious Savior loved us ENOUGH to come to earth, taking on a mortal body, experienced all the things men did, being tempted in every way and yet.....he took our place on that bloody cross and hung there and died. Think about it for a moment, what Christ suffered for us all. I give him praise and honor for he is worthy of it.
    I to am grateful for this sacrifice too large to fully comprehend. That said, BrianH asked if we would take our own life if that was what God asked us to do. My point was, God the Father did ask Christ to do give up his life for Him, and that is exactly what He did.

    Luk 22:42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  9. #134
    Libby
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    I to am grateful for this sacrifice too large to fully comprehend. That said, BrianH asked if we would take our own life if that was what God asked us to do. My point was, God the Father did ask Christ to do give up his life for Him, and that is exactly what He did.

    Luk 22:42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.
    That's very true. I am ashamed to admit, I didn't think of that, when someone asked the question.

  10. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libby View Post
    Not someone's wife, no, but he did command Abraham to sacrifice his son.

    As for the question, I don't believe God would ask that, and I'm pretty sure he didn't ask Abraham to do that, either. That's my personal view.

    But, I understand the underlying concept, regarding obedience to God.
    Read this in Hebrew--and it is clear--if you want to believe this part of the Bible, then it reads clearly that God asked Abraham to sacrifice Isaac.

    I think what is repulsive to us is not repulsive to God. Couldn't God resurrect Isaac? Couldn't God raise Isaac from the dead?

    We are talking about cremating here, which is an interesting point as God (by asking Abraham to sacrifice Isaac) was basically asking him to cremate Isaac. In the offering, Isaac would have his neck slashed and all of his blood would drain out. Then, Abraham would be required to skin Isaac and then cut his body into four parts (ask about the symbolism of that some time). Then, he would burn every part of Isaac until there was nothing left on the alter. Lastly, the skin and hair would be burned separately. So, Abraham would have had to trust that Isaac would not be lost to him according to the promise given to Abraham as Isaac was the covenant child (not the only child). If you read through the whole thing, it is very clear that Isaac was to be a burnt offering to the Lord and Abraham was following the protocol as the high priest in such an offering. So, Abraham had to be very faithful in being obedient to doing this and trusting that Isaac would still be the heir or covenant child.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  11. #136
    Libby
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    Thanks Julie. I'll have to get back to this later.

  12. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libby View Post
    Thanks Julie. I'll have to get back to this later.
    Libby--you might be interested to know that the Jews also do not like this story. In all of the Bible, it is never mentioned again (after the original telling) until the New Testament.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  13. #138
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    When did God the Father command Jesus Christ to give up His life? Could Christ have saved Himself?
    You didn't answer my question.


    Where did God command Jonah to take his own life?

  14. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    You didn't answer my question.


    Where did God command Jonah to take his own life?
    I never said that God commanded Jonah to take his own life, Jonah realized that if he didn't give up his life the men on the boat were in danger of losing theirs. But, did God the Father ask Jesus Christ to give up his life?---if that is your concern.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  15. #140
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    I never said that God commanded Jonah to take his own life, Jonah realized that if he didn't give up his life the men on the boat were in danger of losing theirs.
    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    Next, what about killing yourself? If the lives of others requires you to sacrifice yourself, do you do it? Jonah did when he knew that the lives of the others on the boat were at risk and he did not leave the boat at once. He didn't say to God, I will do what you want so calm the water and I will get there eventually. Instead, he let the men on the boat know he was the problem and in a sense, gave himself over for dead. Unless you think that Jonah somehow knew that not only would he survive the ocean, but also being in the belly of a fish. And of course, Jonah was a type of Christ who also gave his life (when he had the choice not to) for others.
    So Jonah took upon himself to take his own life and God never ask for him to do so?

  16. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    So Jonah took upon himself to take his own life and God never ask for him to do so?
    What point are you trying to make here Billyray? God asked Christ to give his life. I think you try to split hairs when you use the term "take his own life"---unless you think that Christ took "his own life" because he sacrificed Himself for others as Jonah did. As Christ had the power to not die, well then, you decide how you want to split hairs on the definition.

    Jhn 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

    1 John 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love [of God], because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down [our] lives for the brethren.

    Does God ask you to "take your own life" when we are taught to "lay down our lives for the brethen"?
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  17. #142
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    Does God ask you to "take your own life" when we are taught to "lay down our lives for the brethen"?
    God has never asked me to take my own life.

  18. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    God has never asked me to take my own life.
    Billyray, if there is one message throughout the whole Bible it is that faith means to follow God and do whatever He tells you to do regardless if it is not found in the pages of His previous words.

    When God commanded Noah to build an ark--it wasn't written down anywhere.

    When God commanded Moses to part the Red Sea, it wasn't written down anywhere.

    When God asked His Son to lay down His life, it wasn't written down anywhere. (In fact, I believe this was part of the discussion on the Mount of Transfiguration).

    The Pharisees and Saducees got in trouble precisely because they believed their ONLY connection to God was what was written in the Torah or p***ed down through oral traditions. If they wanted to know what to do and how to do it, they looked it up and tried to find it in writing. Then they would spend countless hours trying to decide exactly what the words mean. It never occured to them to look to God for understanding because for all practical purposes, the writings was their God.

    That is why Christ teaches us that it is God the Father who testifies of HIM. It is why He teaches us of the Holy Ghost. The scriptures merely point the way to the true source of salvation--the scriptures do not save us. So, once again, if God tells you Billyray to do something--you cannot use the scriptures to declare it is not written down and therefore you can ignore it. That is the lesson of the Bible--that God will say and direct how and where He will and those who follow Him whether it be Noah or Moses or the apostles use the scriptures to know how to access Him, not to replace Him.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  19. #144
    Libby
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    Read this in Hebrew--and it is clear--if you want to believe this part of the Bible, then it reads clearly that God asked Abraham to sacrifice Isaac.

    I think what is repulsive to us is not repulsive to God. Couldn't God resurrect Isaac? Couldn't God raise Isaac from the dead?

    We are talking about cremating here, which is an interesting point as God (by asking Abraham to sacrifice Isaac) was basically asking him to cremate Isaac. In the offering, Isaac would have his neck slashed and all of his blood would drain out. Then, Abraham would be required to skin Isaac and then cut his body into four parts (ask about the symbolism of that some time). Then, he would burn every part of Isaac until there was nothing left on the alter. Lastly, the skin and hair would be burned separately. So, Abraham would have had to trust that Isaac would not be lost to him according to the promise given to Abraham as Isaac was the covenant child (not the only child). If you read through the whole thing, it is very clear that Isaac was to be a burnt offering to the Lord and Abraham was following the protocol as the high priest in such an offering. So, Abraham had to be very faithful in being obedient to doing this and trusting that Isaac would still be the heir or covenant child.
    Yeah...wow....can you imagine being willing to do that to your own child? I just can't even comprehend that. I can't comprehend that God would even ask that of someone, y/k?

  20. #145
    BrianH
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libby View Post
    Not someone's wife, no, but he did command Abraham to sacrifice his son.

    As for the question, I don't believe God would ask that, and I'm pretty sure he didn't ask Abraham to do that, either. That's my personal view.

    But, I understand the underlying concept, regarding obedience to God.
    Abraham had good reason to know that God would intervene.

    If you were married to "Sir", he has stated that would kill you if he thought God told him to. Would YOU kill your friend, husband, child if you thought God told you to?

    Those who know God, know that the question is absurd. The fact that "Sir" has even asked such a lame question, let alone declared that he would obey such a command, is proof that he has no discernment, no knowledge of the Word of God, and he far, FAR away from knowing God.

    -BH

    .

  21. #146
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    Billyray, if there is one message throughout the whole Bible it is that faith means to follow God and do whatever He tells you to do regardless if it is not found in the pages of His previous words.
    I follow God by following his words to me as written in the NT. What am I lacking?

  22. #147
    Sir
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianH View Post
    Abraham had good reason to know that God would intervene.

    If you were married to "Sir", he has stated that would kill you if he thought God told him to. Would YOU kill your friend, husband, child if you thought God told you to?
    False. All along the stated premis is "if I KNEW it was God who commanded me"..not if I "thought"....

    Those who know God, know that the question is absurd. The fact that "Sir" has even asked such a lame question, let alone declared that he would obey such a command, is proof that he has no discernment, no knowledge of the Word of God, and he far, FAR away from knowing God.

    -BH
    The only thing "absurd" is that some people here are attacking the idea that someone would obey God no matter what he asked. And yet they argue it is that person who is far from knowing God.

  23. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    I follow God by following his words to me as written in the NT. What am I lacking?
    What did Christ tell the rich young ruler he was "lacking" when the rich young ruler expressed that he followed God by following his words as written?

    Mar 10:17 ¶ And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?


    Mar 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God.

    Mar 10:19 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.

    Mar 10:20 And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth.

    Mar 10:21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

    Why wasn't following what this rich young man taught from his Bible (Torah) enough? The Bible is to direct us to Christ, not replace Him.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  24. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libby View Post
    Yeah...wow....can you imagine being willing to do that to your own child? I just can't even comprehend that. I can't comprehend that God would even ask that of someone, y/k?
    But that is the point---God the Father gave His Son for us---Christ suffered and died for us. Why would God ask Abraham to do this? Because being God, even were Abraham to do this, God could bring Isaac back from the dead. This was not just an ultimate test of faith, this was also the ultimate teaching experience. We are blind to fully seeing God and He tries to show us who He is--His glory. What Abraham had said after this was all said and done was that "God sees." (Translated God will provide--but the Hebrew is God sees).

    Likewise, we ask our children to do things that they have no comprehension of, but we know if they do it, their rewards will be great. They don't comprehend, they don't "see"--they don't get it..but we as parents do.

    To say that Abraham knew what God was up to denies the whole point of the story and the faith of Abraham and the teaching of God. What it shows us is that "God sees" what we do not, but wants us to see.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  25. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianH View Post
    Abraham had good reason to know that God would intervene.

    If you were married to "Sir", he has stated that would kill you if he thought God told him to. Would YOU kill your friend, husband, child if you thought God told you to?

    Those who know God, know that the question is absurd. The fact that "Sir" has even asked such a lame question, let alone declared that he would obey such a command, is proof that he has no discernment, no knowledge of the Word of God, and he far, FAR away from knowing God.

    -BH

    .
    Wow, talk about trying to turn faith of God and obedience to Him as something repulsive or wrong. You ***ume that Abraham had good reason to believe God would intervene, but there is nothing in the story to say that--in fact, the story reads just the opposite.

    And this began as would you do what God tells you to do to what you THINK God tells you to do. Abraham obviously had a close enough relationship to God to know exactly who was talking to him.

    None of us would ever THINK to do anything such as you suggest without absolutely knowing who is talking to us---but what an absurd question then--would you do what God told you to do if asked, even if it seemed absurd? Like building an ark---leading the children of Israel to the edge of the Red Sea when being chased by Pharoah and his army---becoming impregnated with the Son of God? All these things would seem absurd to those who THINK they are hearing God and yet perfectly obedient and faithful to those who do hear God.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

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