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Thread: Watch How Easy This Is

  1. #176
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post

    So, when Christ answered this young man what was required for eternal life---are you trying to make a whole argument to me to prove that Christ was wrong and you are right? Is that your point with arguing about what is "good"?
    The point is that the young man did not keep the commandments like he said he did and Christ was pushing him to that conclusion. Only God is good and we are bad, and the only way that we are seen as good is by placing our faith in Christ and having his righteousness imputed to us.

  2. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    Are you trying to make the argument as to why you are right with regards to eternal life and why Christ was not right when He answered the rich young man in regards to what he needed to do to inherit eternal life by proving that not everyone can keep ALL of the commandments of God accept God?
    Do you really believe that Christ is teaching us in this p***age that works are what are required FOR salvation?

    In John what did Christ tell us were the works that were required of us?

  3. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    The point is that the young man did not keep the commandments like he said he did and Christ was pushing him to that conclusion. Only God is good and we are bad, and the only way that we are seen as good is by placing our faith in Christ and having his righteousness imputed to us.
    So, you don't think it was possible for this young man to "Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother"? Really? This is what Christ recited to him. Do you personally struggle with any of these commandments? This seem like relatively easy commandments to keep. Do you disagree?
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  4. #179
    BrianH
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir View Post
    False. All along the stated premis is "if I KNEW it was God who commanded me"..not if I "thought"....
    Please explain how you can even pretend to "know" something WITHOUT "thinking" it.

    When you fail, you will have proven that your accusation above is itself false.



    The only thing "absurd" is that some people here are attacking the idea that someone would obey God no matter what he asked. And yet they argue it is that person who is far from knowing God.
    Nonsense. No one is attacking the idea of obeying God. I am attacking your identification of God. You would kill your own wife thinking "God" told you to do so. The reality is that if you knew God and someone (or something) told you to kill your wife, you would instantly KNOW it was not God giving that order. The FACT that you have made it clear that you WOULD kill your own wife is proof that you do not know God.

    -BH

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  5. #180
    BrianH
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    Wow, talk about trying to turn faith of God and obedience to Him as something repulsive or wrong. You ***ume that Abraham had good reason to believe God would intervene, but there is nothing in the story to say that--in fact, the story reads just the opposite.
    I am not disputing obedience to God. I am pointing out the FACT that you cannot even possibly know who God IS, if you think that he told your husband to kill you.

    I do not ***UME that Abraham had good reason to believe that God would intervene, I DEDUCE that from the Word of God. There is PLENTY of scripture to support that. God had appeared in a theophany to Abraham and personally promised that Isaac would be the father of the Israelite nation. You would have known that biblical FACT had you bothered to actually READ the Bible instead of the fantasy known as the Book of Mormon. As it stands, your comment above proves you have not even read it.


    And this began as would you do what God tells you to do to what you THINK God tells you to do. Abraham obviously had a close enough relationship to God to know exactly who was talking to him.
    Right. And unlike YOU, Abraham had FAITH in GOD, not faith in a false prophet. It was his faith in God, based on pretty darn good reasons, that allowed him to proceed on the PROMISE that God would make Isaac (a mere boy at the time) would be the source of the Israelite nation.


    None of us would ever THINK to do anything such as you suggest without absolutely knowing who is talking to us---but what an absurd question then--would you do what God told you to do if asked, even if it seemed absurd? Like building an ark---leading the children of Israel to the edge of the Red Sea when being chased by Pharoah and his army---becoming impregnated with the Son of God? All these things would seem absurd to those who THINK they are hearing God and yet perfectly obedient and faithful to those who do hear God.
    That's the problem Julie. You could NOT know that God told you to KILL your mate, because God does not do that. If someone or something told you to kill your husband, you SHOULD know instantaneously that this is NOT GOD. But YOU cannot know that, because you have no discernment and you do not know the Word of God nor do you have any faith in the Word of God. You believe false prophets and petty con artists. Those of us who KNOW the Word of God KNOW that The Word of God tells men to "LOVE (their) wives" as their own selves and even to give themselves for her even as Christ gave himself for the church. That is the Word of God, Julie.

    Did you not know that Jesus did not KILL the church?

    You should have faith in God, not Joe Smith - a twice convicted occult con artist with a trail of proven lies following him.

    -BH

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  6. #181
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    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by BrianH View Post
    I am not disputing obedience to God. I am pointing out the FACT that you cannot even possibly know who God IS, if you think that he told your husband to kill you.
    Brian, this is actually a very funny line of reasoning. The first question is, would you do what God told you to do even if He told you to kill your wife? So---which is it in your example, is God doing the example--or should the average man know that God would never ask such a thing and so if then God can not be God if He asks you to kill another? I guess when God asks the Israelites to kill the Medianites including women and children, they should have not believed it was God according to your logic.

    I do not ***UME that Abraham had good reason to believe that God would intervene, I DEDUCE that from the Word of God. There is PLENTY of scripture to support that. God had appeared in a theophany to Abraham and personally promised that Isaac would be the father of the Israelite nation. You would have known that biblical FACT had you bothered to actually READ the Bible instead of the fantasy known as the Book of Mormon. As it stands, your comment above proves you have not even read it.
    I have not only read this account, I have read it in Hebrew as well. So, aside from the insults, as far as I can tell--for ABraham to have faith in the promise might have also meant that Abraham had faith in God's ability to raise Isaac from the dead, thus not intervening in the task given to Abraham at all---and since you read the Bible, I ***ume you know that raising someone from the dead is not over the abilities of God.



    Right. And unlike YOU, Abraham had FAITH in GOD, not faith in a false prophet. It was his faith in God, based on pretty darn good reasons, that allowed him to proceed on the PROMISE that God would make Isaac (a mere boy at the time) would be the source of the Israelite nation.
    Abraham had enough faith in God that he prepared for the sacrifice and took Isaac to sacrifice him.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  7. #182
    BrianH
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    [QUOTE=BigJulie;114287]
    Brian, this is actually a very funny line of reasoning. The first question is, would you do what God told you to do even if He told you to kill your wife? So---which is it in your example, is God doing the example--or should the average man know that God would never ask such a thing and so if then God can not be God if He asks you to kill another? I guess when God asks the Israelites to kill the Medianites including women and children, they should have not believed it was God according to your logic.
    Funny? What's "funny" is that Mormons would actually kill someone because they thought God told them to. Those of us who know God and know the Word of God would INSTANTLY know that the one giving such an order is definitely NOT God. There is nothing in my logic that should be problematic for anyone who knows God. Those who are deceived by satan and ultimately are serving him by spreading a false gospel made of lies lack such discernment and can be made to believe just about anything - including that they should kill their own wives.

    I have not only read this account, I have read it in Hebrew as well. So, aside from the insults, as far as I can tell--for ABraham to have faith in the promise might have also meant that Abraham had faith in God's ability to raise Isaac from the dead, thus not intervening in the task given to Abraham at all---and since you read the Bible, I ***ume you know that raising someone from the dead is not over the abilities of God.
    If you have read it at all, then you should know that Abraham acted in full ***urance that God's promise regarding Isaac was the most relyable thing in all of reality. No such ***urance is present in the premise to the above question. But you are a Mormon and as such, you lack faith in God; your faith is in Joseph Smith - a twice convicted occult con artist. You lack discernment.


    Abraham had enough faith in God that he prepared for the sacrifice and took Isaac to sacrifice him.
    Knowing that God would ultimately fulfill his promises regarding Isaac, which obviously could not be the case if he was dead.

    -BH

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  8. #183
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    So, you don't think it was possible for this young man to "Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother"? Really? This is what Christ recited to him. Do you personally struggle with any of these commandments? This seem like relatively easy commandments to keep. Do you disagree?
    I think that this young man did not keep ALL of the commandments. If fact not a single person keeps ALL of the commandments. You don't keep the commandments. How many times do we have to go through this before you understand this J?

  9. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    I think that this young man did not keep ALL of the commandments. If fact not a single person keeps ALL of the commandments. You don't keep the commandments. How many times do we have to go through this before you understand this J?
    Christ did not tell go through a list of every single commandment. As it was Jesus Christ who answered the question with the list of commandments he gave and then added one more to for the young man to do, I do not know what He didn't give YOUR answer, since you seem to think it is so much better.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  10. #185
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    . . .I do not know what He didn't give YOUR answer, since you seem to think it is so much better.
    Can you rephrase your sentence it doesn't make any sense.

  11. #186
    Billyray
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    BTW if ALL of us are "not good" then what does that tell you about how Christ sees us with respect to keeping the commandments?

  12. #187
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    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by BrianH View Post

    Funny? What's "funny" is that Mormons would actually kill someone because they thought God told them to.
    Let me get your line of reasoning straight here Brian--first you ask us if we would follow God even if it meant killing someone, then it went to we should realize it is not God because he would never ask such a thing and now you are claim we would kill someone IF we thought it was God. Sheesh. You are the master of spin. Let's just put it this way, if I was sure it was God, I would do as He says.

    Those of us who know God and know the Word of God would INSTANTLY know that the one giving such an order is definitely NOT God.
    Your logic would say that the Israelites should have never kiled the Medianites or Abraham should have not taken Abraham to get sacrificed.

    There is nothing in my logic that should be problematic for anyone who knows God. Those who are deceived by satan and ultimately are serving him by spreading a false gospel made of lies lack such discernment and can be made to believe just about anything - including that they should kill their own wives.
    You are sooo funny Brian.

    Lev 20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with [another] man's wife, [even he] that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

    According to your logic, the "wife" who committed adultery should not be put to death because anyone who knows God would know that to do so is Satanic, regardless of the circumstance. Is that what you are saying Brian?

    Let's see...here are three examples of God in the Bible.
    1) God commands the Israelites to kill all of the Medianites including infants.
    2) God commands Abraham to sacrifice Isaac, his son.
    3) God commands the Israelites to stone to death those who committ adultery.

    Okay, now for me, I think the message of the Bible is to follow God. You think the Bible lets you know what God would do or would not do. I say, God does what He will. Does that mean I am going to go kill my spouse if I THINK it is God? Absolutely not. If I am sure it is God though, well then, I guess I can wait until the donkey tells me what to do.


    If you have read it at all, then you should know that Abraham acted in full ***urance that God's promise regarding Isaac was the most relyable thing in all of reality.
    Do you think that Abraham thought he would not need to sacrifice Isaac---and if so, why did he act in a way that was consistent with the sacrifice---why didn't Abraham just wait until God showed him something else?


    Knowing that God would ultimately fulfill his promises regarding Isaac, which obviously could not be the case if he was dead.
    What? Are you putting limits on God? or rather what He can and cannot do?
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  13. #188
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    Let's just put it this way, if I was sure it was God, I would do as He says.
    Would you blood atone an apostate if asked by God to do so?

  14. #189
    BrianH
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    [QUOTE=BigJulie;114330]
    Let me get your line of reasoning straight here Brian--first you ask us if we would follow God even if it meant killing someone, then it went to we should realize it is not God because he would never ask such a thing and now you are claim we would kill someone IF we thought it was God. Sheesh. You are the master of spin. Let's just put it this way, if I was sure it was God, I would do as He says....<snip>
    Hold it right there Julie ...you REALLY need to improve your reading comprehension skills. I am not the one who first asked you if you would follow God even if it meant killing someone. That was your boy Mr. "Sir", not me. You REALLY need to start paying attention here, BigJ. It will help you avoid the embarr***ment you just caused yourself.

    Now go back and actually READ what I said then come back when you understand it.

    -BH

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  15. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    Can you rephrase your sentence it doesn't make any sense.
    You seem to think you know how Christ should have answered this man rather than the way he did. If what you say is true (and Christ always tells the truth) then why did Christ give an answer that was other than truth?...at least in your thinking.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  16. #191
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    [QUOTE=BrianH;114334]
    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post

    Hold it right there Julie ...you REALLY need to improve your reading comprehension skills. I am not the one who first asked you if you would follow God even if it meant killing someone. That was your boy Mr. "Sir", not me. You REALLY need to start paying attention here, BigJ. It will help you avoid the embarr***ment you just caused yourself.

    Now go back and actually READ what I said then come back when you understand it.

    -BH

    .
    Yes Brian---but it is you who then ascertains that we are the one who would kill someone if we THOUGHT God told us to do it, rather than if we knew it was God who told us to do it. And the Israelites give ample evidence that God spoke to them and they did do what you think is illogical given what you know about God.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  17. #192
    BrianH
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    [QUOTE=BigJulie;114336]
    Quote Originally Posted by BrianH View Post

    Yes Brian---but it is you who then ascertains that we are the one who would kill someone if we THOUGHT God told us to do it, rather than if we knew it was God who told us to do it. And the Israelites give ample evidence that God spoke to them and they did do what you think is illogical given what you know about God.

    Please at least TRY to explain how you would even pretend to know anything without thinking it, Julie.

    Then GO BACK and try to actually R E A D what I said. It is YOUR pal Mr. "Sir" who straddled you with the lame task of having to defend your willingness to kill people because you THINK God told you to.

    Meanwhile those of us who know God and his word could not be fooled by such a transparent lie. YOU, on the other hand, have once again conclusivly proven just how far you are from God AND how easily you can be and ARE fooled.

    -BH

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  18. #193
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    If what you say is true (and Christ always tells the truth) then why did Christ give an answer that was other than truth?...at least in your thinking.
    I don't think Christ said something that was untrue.

  19. #194
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    Meanwhile those of us who know God and his word could not be fooled by such a transparent lie.
    Right.....

  20. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    I don't think Christ said something that was untrue.
    So, when this young man asked Christ, "what shall I do to inherit eternal life?" Did Christ tell him the truth when He answered him?
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  21. #196
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    [QUOTE=BrianH;114338
    Then GO BACK and try to actually R E A D what I said. It is YOUR pal Mr. "Sir" who straddled you with the lame task of having to defend your willingness to kill people because you THINK God told you to.


    .[/QUOTE] Sir never said "THINK"---that is your spin and that is my point.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  22. #197
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    So, when this young man asked Christ, "what shall I do to inherit eternal life?" Did Christ tell him the truth when He answered him?
    Absolutely and He knew that he hadn't keep ALL of the commandments and He knew that he wouldn't sell everything he had and follow Him.

  23. #198
    BrianH
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    Sir never said "THINK"---that is your spin and that is my point.
    I don't care WHAT he "said" - the FACT is you cannot "know" something WITHOUT "thinking" it. If you "think" that God told you to kill your husband, it is obvious that you do not KNOW God. You guys are just creepy on this. You would actually KILL your own spouse? You know, the Mountain Meadows M***acre was perpetrated by people just like you who THOUGHT that God told them to kill all those people. After all, the Mormon "prophet" TOLD them to do it, right?

    Now please explain why you attributed Mr. "Sir's" bogus statement to ME. Have you even bothered to actually go back and see how you blew it, Julie? Are you paying attention yet?

    -BH

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  24. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    Absolutely and He knew that he hadn't keep ALL of the commandments and He knew that he wouldn't sell everything he had and follow Him.
    That is not what Christ says...He said, one think he lacked. And then Christ asked the young man to DO one more thing. What do you think Christ didn't tell him to just believe He would save him and that would be enough? Why would Christ decieve the young man if that was all that was required of Him?
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  25. #200
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    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by BrianH View Post
    I don't care WHAT he "said" - the FACT is you cannot "know" something WITHOUT "thinking" it.
    Oh brother...this is your next spin...you can't know something until you think something?? I guess to you then, it all depends on what the meaning of "is" is. Yeah, keep trying to change this to THINK....

    *sigh*

    One of the tactics of Mormon critics is to argue against what you want us to be saying rather than what we are actually saying. Another is to argue against what you have been told we believe rather than what we say we believe.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

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