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Thread: Watch How Easy This Is

  1. #251
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by Russianwolfe View Post
    What is your evidence that God has ever asked this of any other person? I don't deal in ridiculous hypotheticals. Get real. Or get out.

    Marvin
    If you really knew that it was God would you do it?

  2. #252
    Russianwolfe
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    Actually Marvin in case you forgot I already answered that question.


    Originally Posted by Billyray
    Absolutely. In fact he did. When I was LDS I had a false understanding of the Bible and God opened up my eyes and showed me that Mormonism is false and that is when I left for Biblical Christianity
    As I have told you before, God does not testify or witness to anything but the truth. If you think that your answer told you that Mormonism was false, then it was not the true and living God who answered your prayer. The true and living God is a God of truth. He does not tell you of anything but the truth. Nothing else. Only the what is the truth. If you had a witness someother way was the true way then you would be more likely to have the truth. But you have always said that God showed you that Mormonism is false. That is not an answer from the true and living God.

    Marvin

  3. #253
    Russianwolfe
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    If you really knew that it was God would you do it?
    You're just being ridiculous. This is no different than the philosopher's question: Can God make a rock so big he cannot lift it?

    Marvin

  4. #254
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by Russianwolfe View Post
    As I have told you before, God does not testify or witness to anything but the truth.

    Marvin
    I totally agree and that is why he lead me away from the false teachings of Mormonism.

  5. #255
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by Russianwolfe View Post
    If you think that your answer told you that Mormonism was false, then it was the true and living God who answered your prayer.

    Marvin
    I agree with you Marvin.

  6. #256
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by Russianwolfe View Post
    You're just being ridiculous. This is no different than the philosopher's question: Can God make a rock so big he cannot lift it?

    Marvin
    Not at all Marvin. It you really knew it was God that asked you to do this wouldn't you do it?

  7. #257
    alanmolstad
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    This turned out to be one of the best, (Although a bit long) things i have ever written in my whole life.Even tonight as I went over my old text i was struck by how I truly was able to put down in words what was on my heart that day.
    The context in case you have forgotten is that the Original Poster on this topic asked if a person truly believed that God asked him to kill his wife, would you do it?
    The OP said the answer was "YES".......I looked into the topic and came to a slighty different answer...)


    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    (Every once in a while, I like to dip my toe into a topic I have not seen much change in over page after page of comments, just to watch the ripples)



    "Lets say you totally believe it's God, and leave it at that...

    now back to the question-

    If you saw your God making a rock so big he could not lift it, would you do the same thing?....Yes or No?



    another way to look at this issue?
    There are for the most part, 2 types of CULTS in the world.
    There are CULTS that are run by some type of organization.
    And there are CULTS that are run by a single all-powerful guy, who controls people under him.

    The 1st type we can look to the JWs to see what they are like.

    The 2nd type we can look to groups like the one run by David Koresh.

    Now the deal with CULTS that run by a David Koresh or a Charles Manson is that sooner or later its normal for them to start getting younger and younger girls into their bed. It's actually one of the outward signs of being in a CULT if you notice that the person who is the head of the religion, who represents God's revelation to you, starts to invite other women to his bed....

    As far as I know, sooner or later it always comes down to....."bed, bed, bed"

    They even do this openly as part of their religion.

    If questioned about the correctness of sexually molesting a 11 or 12 year old girl the leader of a CULT normally says "It's God's Command!"

    and the girls believe this
    and their parents believe this

    Everyone in the CULT can totally believe this too.

    "It's God's Command...."

    If a person truly believes 100% that God has commanded the sexually molesting of infants and small children, how does a normal person of faith start to convince them different?

    What type of religious/moral foundation is there that you can stand on as you attempt to convince a parent that it is not God's command that they allow their own children to be so abused?

    The sad part in this, is that the example Im talking about here is not just hypothetical....it has happened, heck just look at the sad case of Elizabeth Smart.

    The little girl was raped by woman's husband,. while that wife ***umed this was "God's Command" and did not lift a finger to stop it.

    How do you convince a person that it was not God's command, when by their own actions that have more than proved that they are 100% convinced it was god's command?


    What do you say to a person that is completely convinced that they are listening to the one true God Almighty commanding them to turn over children to be sexually abused by the leader of their religion?

    What are you going to say to them?
    Are you going to stand there and tell them to "Pray about it"......NO!.....You are going to have to try a bit harder than that my friends...

    But what do you base your counter argument on?


    ------------------------

    I deal a lot with the outreach to the CULTS, mostly reaching out to members of, or people with family in the JWs.

    The JWs dont believe in the same God I do.
    The JWs dont believe in the same Jesus as I do.
    The JWs dont believe in the same resurrection that I do, or in the same Kingdom of God that I do, nor in the idea as to who goes to heaven and who will not.

    So clearly the JWs are a different religion.

    yet, when Im called to go speak to a JW that is meeting with a family in my church and I'm seeking to help this JW find the true Jesus, I have to find some type of foundation where I can stand on.....

    I use the bible.
    The Bible is my foundation.
    I base my message, on only what I can see the Bible teaching.


    The person inside the CULT is not so limited in what they can use to support their views.
    They can invent things
    They can lie
    They can write their own version of the bible, and change it to fit their views.
    They can come up with a different bible, or have a single guy in charge of doctrine or organization that interprets God's Commands for them.
    They can appeal to dreams as their final authority.
    Or to personal opinions.
    or to lucky dice.

    There is no limit to things the person in the CULT can use to serve as their support for their teachings.



    I only am allowed to use the bible.


    The person in the CULT says "God told them to molest children"

    My counter argument is centered only with the text of the bible.
    My argument against their God, is based on what the bible teaches us about the nature of God.


    In many ways this does put me at a disadvantage.
    for they can say, "God told me so, I know it was the real God and I trust God 100%"
    If the person is claiming a real personal revelation its hard for me to say "It never happened", because they are clearly convinced that '"something" did happen.

    all I can say to counter that is that , "The God of the Bible would not say such a thing, nor could say such a thing"
    It's the same logic as is found in our conclusions when we had a look at the question, If God is all powerful, can he make a rock so big he cant lift it? The answer in both situations is that God can not do something that runs counter to His nature, as given to us in the Bible's revelation of Him.

    That is the answer....


    it would not really matter how sure they were that it was truly God that told them to do such evil things against children.

    My argument against them has to be based out of the text, and has to center around the Bible's teachings about the nature of God...and that god can not act counter to this revelation that is already given.


    I understand that the person in the CULT is absolutely convinced they they heard God speak to them.
    I understand that they are 100% sure that it was God that told them to do these things, and to believe these things...
    .

    All I can do is show them that whatever they heard and no matter how convinced they are it was of god, , it could not be of God of the Bible, for it runs counter to the revelation we have of God in the Bible."





    So Alan, in the real world how does this work out when talking to a Mormon or a Moonie or any of the many other religions that claim to be "Christian" ?

    My answer to that question is that , While it would be nice to be able to sit down with a member of a CULT and show them via magic paperwork and magic videos, that they did not hear the true God speak to them, in most cases it's a little late for that effort.
    Most of the time the person trapped in a CULT has put all of their trust in the testimony of the long-dead CULT's leader and his claim to have received a message from the One true god.
    It's a little late for trying to convince anyone that their dead leader didnt receive a vision.....

    All I can do is show by the scriptures that their dead leader's revelation runs counter to the bible's revelation, and that the bible teaches us that God can not ever say even one word that goes against what He has already revealed to us in the scriptures.

    The Bible is not man's interpretation of God's revelations
    The Bible IS GOD"S revelation to man.
    The Bible is GOD's Word....
    Thus there is ZERO CHANCE that any future revelations from God will go against the revelation we have already received from that same Lord...

    So it doesn't matter how sure I am that God is speaking to me
    If the revelation is in disagreement with God's revelation?, Then it's the wrong god!........

  8. #258
    alanmolstad
    Guest

    Default

    There are for the most part, 2 types of CULTS in the world.

    There are CULTS that are run by some type of organization.
    And there are CULTS that are run by a single all-powerful guy, who controls people under him.

    The 1st type we can look to the JWs to see what they are like.

    The 2nd type we can look to groups like the one run by David Koresh.

    Now the deal with CULTS that run by a David Koresh or a Charles Manson is that sooner or later its normal for them to start getting younger and younger girls into their bed. It's actually one of the outward signs of being in a CULT if you notice that the person who is the head of the religion, who represents God's revelation to you, starts to invite other women to his bed....

    As far as I know, sooner or later it always comes down to....."bed, bed, bed"

    They even do this openly as part of their religion.

    If questioned about the correctness of sexually molesting a 14 year old girl the leader of a CULT normally says "It's God's Command!"

    and the girls believe this
    and their parents believe this

    Everyone in the CULT can totally believe this too.

    "It's God's Command...."

    If a person truly believes 100% that God has commanded the sexually molesting of infants and small children, how does a normal person of faith start to convince them different?

    What type of religious/moral foundation is there that you can stand on as you attempt to convince a parent that it is not God's command that they allow their own children to be so abused?

    The sad part in this, is that the example Im talking about here is not just hypothetical....it has happened, heck just look at the sad case of Elizabeth Smart.

    The little girl was raped by woman's husband,. while that wife ***umed this was "God's Command" and did not lift a finger to stop it.

    How do you convince a person that it was not God's command, when by their own actions that have more than proved that they are 100% convinced it was god's command?


    What do you say to a person that is completely convinced that they are listening to the one true God Almighty commanding them to turn over children to be sexually abused by the leader of their religion?

    What are you going to say to them?
    Are you going to stand there and tell them to "Pray about it"......NO!.....You are going to have to try a bit harder than that my friends...

    But what do you base your counter argument on?


    ------------------------

    I deal a lot with the outreach to the CULTS, mostly reaching out to members of, or people with family in the JWs.

    The JWs dont believe in the same God I do.
    The JWs dont believe in the same Jesus as I do.
    The JWs dont believe in the same resurrection that I do, or in the same Kingdom of God that I do, nor in the idea as to who goes to heaven and who will not.

    So clearly the JWs are a different religion.

    yet, when Im called to go speak to a JW that is meeting with a family in my church and I'm seeking to help this JW find the true Jesus, I have to find some type of foundation where I can stand on.....

    I use the bible.
    The Bible is my foundation.
    I base my message, on only what I can see the Bible teaching.

    The person inside the CULT is not so limited in what they can use to support their views.
    They can invent things
    They can lie
    They can write their own version of the bible, and change it to fit their views.
    They can come up with a different bible, or have a single guy in charge of doctrine or organization that interprets God's Commands for them.
    They can appeal to dreams as their final authority.
    Or to personal opinions.
    or to lucky dice.

    There is no limit to things the person in the CULT can use to serve as their support for their teachings.



    I only am allowed to use the bible.


    The person in the CULT says "God told them to molest children"

    My counter argument is centered only with the text of the bible.
    My argument against their God, is based on what the bible teaches us about the nature of God.


    In many ways this does put me at a disadvantage.
    for they can say, "God told me so, I know it was the real God and I trust God 100%"
    If the person is claiming a real personal revelation its hard for me to say "It never happened", because they are clearly convinced that '"something" did happen.

    all I can say to counter that is that , "The God of the Bible would not say such a thing, nor could say such a thing"
    It's the same logic as is found in our conclusions when we had a look at the question, If God is all powerful, can he make a rock so big he cant lift it? The answer in both situations is that God can not do something that runs counter to His nature, as given to us in the Bible's revelation of Him.

    That is the answer....


    it would not really matter how sure they were that it was truly God that told them to do such evil things against children.

    My argument against them has to be based out of the text, and has to center around the Bible's teachings about the nature of God...and that god can not act counter to this revelation that is already given.


    I understand that the person in the CULT is absolutely convinced they they heard God speak to them.
    I understand that they are 100% sure that it was God that told them to do these things, and to believe these things...
    .

    All I can do is show them that whatever they heard and no matter how convinced they are it was of god, , it could not be of God of the Bible, for it runs counter to the revelation we have of God in the Bible."





    So Alan, in the real world how does this work out when talking to a Mormon or a Moonie or any of the many other religions that claim to be "Christian" ?

    My answer to that question is that , While it would be nice to be able to sit down with a member of a CULT and show them via magic paperwork and magic videos, that they did not hear the true God speak to them, in most cases it's a little late for that effort.
    Most of the time the person trapped in a CULT has put all of their trust in the testimony of the long-dead CULT's leader and his claim to have received a message from the One true god.
    It's a little late for trying to convince anyone that their dead leader didnt receive a vision.....

    All I can do is show by the scriptures that their dead leader's revelation runs counter to the bible's revelation, and that the bible teaches us that God can not ever say even one word that goes against what He has already revealed to us in the scriptures.

    The Bible is not man's interpretation of God's revelations
    The Bible IS GOD"S revelation to man.
    The Bible is GOD's Word....
    Thus there is ZERO CHANCE that any future revelations from God will go against the revelation we have already received from that same Lord...

    So it doesn't matter how sure I am that God is speaking to me
    If the revelation is in disagreement with God's revelation?, Then it's the wrong god!........

  9. #259
    alanmolstad
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    ....
    Thus there is ZERO CHANCE that any future revelations from God will go against the revelation we have already received from that same Lord...

    So it doesn't matter how sure I am that God is speaking to me
    If the revelation is in disagreement with God's revelation?, Then it's the wrong god!........
    CULTS always have a way of adding to the Bible...sooner or later the CULT will always teach that to learn the "real truth" you have to go not to the Bible but to the CULT.

    The CULT will actually replace the Bible is some situations,re-working it to fit the new teachings.
    This tends to scare the followers of the CULT , as they will feel that except for turning to the CULT for guidance they would have no knowledge about God at all....

  10. #260
    Senior Member
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    Dec 2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    CULTS always have a way of adding to the Bible...
    You mean like adding creeds that you have to believe to be a Christian?

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