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Thread: Watch How Easy This Is

  1. #51
    Sir
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    God gave new laws that didn't have prior precedent so by this standard God couldn't do this. Is that what you are saying?
    This is what you're left with?

    So no Bible to support your position?

    I gave Biblical precedent to show that God can allow and disallow killing.

    You are left with creating fallacious hypotheticals to try and justify disobeying God if he asked you to do something that is OT command and not NT.

    All reading this see that you are left with nothing but this.

    I'm sorry.

  2. #52
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir View Post
    This is what you're left with?

    So no Bible to support your position?

    I gave Biblical precedent to show that God can allow and disallow killing.
    But God has made new laws for his people that were never given before. Thus God can make up a new law. If this were the case then my question should be an easy one for you as you noted in the OP "Watch how easy this is"

    I waiting to see how easy it is for you to answer this question.

    If God asked you to reject him and follow Satan would you do it?

  3. #53
    Sir
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    But God has made new laws for his people that were never given before. Thus God can make up a new law. If this were the case then my question should be an easy one for you as you noted in the OP "Watch how easy this is"

    I waiting to see how easy it is for you to answer this question.

    If God asked you to reject him and follow Satan would you do it?
    You must've forgotten what the "easy question" was.

    Go back to the first post and you'll see.

    Since then you've been arguing that God can change commands, make up new laws, and that you are restriscted to NT laws. So your question is moot. You should figure out your own position before trying to create a false premise for me to answer.

    But the bottom line so far is: I would do whatever God asked. You would NOT do what God asked if it was an OT command and you would tell God that you are a NT command follower only.

  4. #54
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir View Post
    But the bottom line so far is: I would do whatever God asked.
    If God asked you to reject him and follow Satan would you do it?

    Thanks that answers my question about how you would answer the above question.

  5. #55
    Sir
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    If God asked you to reject him and follow Satan would you do it?

    Thanks that answers my question about how you would answer the above question.
    Oh sure, if you feel it justified to take my answer that I would do whatever God asked me, and you create illogical commands that God would command me to do and claim that I said i would do them, who am I to stop your dishonesty and deception?

    As I said, this is all you have left.

    I would do whatever God commanded me.

    You would only do what God commanded you if it was found in the NT.

    Bibliolatrists will alwyas question God over the Bible.

  6. #56
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir View Post

    I would do whatever God commanded me.
    And that would include rejecting God and following the Devil if that is what God asked of you. Correct?

  7. #57
    Sir
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    And that would include rejecting God and following the Devil if that is what God asked of you. Correct?
    I'll leave you to making your own deceptive and fallacious connections.

    I'll start you off:

    I will do anything that very God the Father commanded me.

    Now you go ahead and insert every illogical and fallacious claim you want and ascribe it to my willingness to obey God.

    have fun.

    It's all you have left.

    I have a Niner game to attend to.

  8. #58
    Russianwolfe
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    If God asked you to reject him and follow Satan would you do it?
    Moses 1: 9 And the presence of God withdrew from Moses, that his glory was not upon Moses; and Moses was left unto himself. And as he was left unto himself, he fell unto the earth.

    10 And it came to p*** that it was for the space of many hours before Moses did again receive his natural strength like unto man; and he said unto himself: Now, for this cause I know that man is nothing, which thing I never had supposed.

    11 But now mine own eyes have beheld God; but not my natural, but my spiritual eyes, for my natural eyes could not have beheld; for I should have withered and died in his presence; but his glory was upon me; and I beheld his face, for I was transfigured before him.

    12 And it came to p*** that when Moses had said these words, behold, aSatan came tempting him, saying: Moses, son of man, worship me.

    13 And it came to p*** that Moses looked upon Satan and said: Who art thou? For behold, I am a son of God, in the similitude of his Only Begotten; and where is thy glory, that I should worship thee?

    14 For behold, I could not look upon God, except his glory should come upon me, and I were transfigured before him. But I can look upon thee in the natural man. Is it not so, surely?

    15 Blessed be the name of my God, for his Spirit hath not altogether withdrawn from me, or else where is thy glory, for it is darkness unto me? And I can judge between thee and God; for God said unto me: Worship God, for him only shalt thou serve.

    16 Get thee hence, Satan; deceive me not; for God said unto me: Thou art after the similitude of mine Only Begotten.

    17 And he also gave me commandments when he called unto me out of the burning bush, saying: Call upon God in the name of mine Only Begotten, and worship me.

    18 And again Moses said: I will not cease to call upon God, I have other things to inquire of him: for his glory has been upon me, wherefore I can judge between him and thee. Depart hence, Satan.

    19 And now, when Moses had said these words, Satan cried with a loud voice, and ranted upon the earth, and commanded, saying: I am the Only Begotten, worship me.

    20 And it came to p*** that Moses began to fear exceedingly; and as he began to fear, he saw the bitterness of hell. Nevertheless, calling upon God, he received strength, and he commanded, saying: Depart from me, Satan, for this one God only will I worship, which is the God of eglory.

    21 And now Satan began to tremble, and the earth shook; and Moses received strength, and called upon God, saying: In the name of the Only Begotten, depart hence, Satan.

    22 And it came to p*** that Satan cried with a loud voice, with weeping, and wailing, and gnashing of teeth; and he departed hence, even from the presence of Moses, that he beheld him not.

    23 And now of this thing Moses bore record; but because of wickedness it is not had among the children of men.

    24 And it came to p*** that when Satan had departed from the presence of Moses, that Moses lifted up his eyes unto heaven, being filled with the Holy Ghost, which beareth record of the Father and the Son;

    25 And calling upon the name of God, he beheld his glory again, for it was upon him; and he heard a voice, saying: Blessed art thou, Moses, for I, the Almighty, have chosen thee, and thou shalt be made stronger than many waters; for they shall obey thy command as if thou wert fGod.

    26 And lo, I am with thee, even unto the end of thy days; for thou shalt deliver my people from bondage, even Israel my echosen.

    27 And it came to p***, as the voice was still speaking, Moses cast his eyes and beheld the earth, yea, even all of it; and there was not a particle of it which he did not behold, discerning it by the Spirit of God.
    Your question seems quite pointless.

    Marvin
    Last edited by Russianwolfe; 01-22-2012 at 06:08 PM.

  9. #59
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by Russianwolfe View Post
    You question seems quite pointless.

    Marvin
    Not at all because this is the basis of the thread. What you guys are trying t do is get out from under the clear teachings of the Bible in order to support your false doctrine.

  10. #60
    Russianwolfe
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    Not at all because this is the basis of the thread. What you guys are trying t do is get out from under the clear teachings of the Bible in order to support your false doctrine.
    And you just ignored the scripture that I posted. The fact of the matter is, you are in a panic trying to find a way out of the corner you are in. You are beginning to see that your Biblioatry is fatal but you just can't give it up.

    Marvin

  11. #61
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by Russianwolfe View Post
    And you just ignored the scripture that I posted. The fact of the matter is, you are in a panic trying to find a way out of the corner you are in. You are beginning to see that your Biblioatry is fatal but you just can't give it up.

    Marvin
    And you are trying as hard as you can to come up with a justification for your false beliefs. I feel for you Marvin. I was in you shoes and it is not a very comforting place to be.

  12. #62
    Russianwolfe
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    And you are trying as hard as you can to come up with a justification for your false beliefs. I feel for you Marvin. I was in you shoes and it is not a very comforting place to be.
    I am quite comfortable and very happy, so your experience is not the same as mine.

    I have nothing to justify. I am pointing out the error in your thinking and using scripture to prove it. Something I don't see you doing very often. Unless that single scripture theology thing you got goin' is proof of your lack of scriptural knowledge.


    Marvin

  13. #63
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by Russianwolfe View Post
    Unless that single scripture theology thing you got goin' is proof of your lack of scriptural knowledge.


    Marvin
    Is this your attempt to justify ignoring multiple NT verses that clearly say that works do not contribute for salvation?

  14. #64
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by Russianwolfe View Post
    I am quite comfortable and very happy, so your experience is not the same as mine.
    And this at the cost of denying teaching after teaching the you hold dear but can't admit such as a heavenly mother. How pathetic is that?

  15. #65
    Sir
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    Quote Originally Posted by Russianwolfe View Post
    And you just ignored the scripture that I posted. The fact of the matter is, you are in a panic trying to find a way out of the corner you are in. You are beginning to see that your Biblioatry is fatal but you just can't give it up.

    Marvin
    When backed into a corner all you can do is close your eyes and start swinging, hoping you will connect.

    It's funny that billy's mantra in this thread is that we are trying to justify false doctrines. But this thread is simply about whether you would obey God or not. And since he has answered that he would not obey God unless it was a NT command, he has no other choice but to fight his way out of his selective obedience to God.

  16. #66
    Russianwolfe
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    And this at the cost of denying teaching after teaching the you hold dear but can't admit such as a heavenly mother. How pathetic is that?
    I am not denying anything. You are the one who is attempting to make a teaching into a doctrine. I simply ask for the scripture that establishes this teaching as doctrine. And all you can do is accuse me of denying a teaching. It is not a doctrine and you won't admit that. I have on many occasions told you that the doctrines of the church are contained in the scriptures. And you want to prove that wrong and go directly to a teaching to compare to doctrine. Apples and Oranges. Every LDS will tell you that a heavenly mother is not doctrine. Someone even told you we reach that teaching by logic not by scripture. And yet you accuse me of denying this teaching simply because I ask you to prove that it is a doctrine. It is plain to anyone who reads your statement that you have no truth in you and are using pathetic manipulative techniques to embarr*** me into believing your way. Hasn' worked and won't work. I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, for it is the way of salvation for every living thing on the earth.

    Cite the scripture that shows that this is a doctrine.

    Marvin

  17. #67
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir View Post
    But this thread is simply about whether you would obey God or not.
    Sir would you obey God if he told you to reject him and follow the Devil?

  18. #68
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by Russianwolfe View Post
    I am not denying anything. . .
    so do you believe that there is a heavenly mother or not?

  19. #69
    jdjhere
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    Why would we NOT ignore Moses 1:9? Its not Scripture to us.

  20. #70
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir View Post
    this thread is simply about whether you would obey God or not.
    We are commanded to obey God and I strive to do so. What else do you propose that I should do that is not found in the NT?

  21. #71
    jdjhere
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    Its the same old thing, and that is, mainly, how many gods actually exist? I dont CARE if you only worship one, how many actually EXIST or better asked... IS there MORE than ONE that exists? I think that is a very simple YES or NO question. Is satan a god to the LDS? Are LDS males hoping to become gods some day? That is the question, and THAT makes more than one god if LDS think they are going to become one. That makes ALOT more than one actually.The God of the Bible said to "test ALL things" and to "test the spirits" to see if they are of God, and that satan can appear as an angel of light and his demons as well. So, how did we decide that it was actually God that spoke to us and told us to kill? How do we KNOW it was the God of the Bible for sure and not another god? How do we KNOW for a FACT that it was THE God speaking? Through our feelings or through what He has already showed us in His Word, the Bible? Its a good question and I believe it can be done through BOTH. Affirmed by a witness YET tested by Gods Word as commanded. By the reasoning here, LDS, PROVE Warren Jeffs is WRONG to say he is hearing directly from God if you should just trust your "feelings."
    Last edited by jdjhere; 01-23-2012 at 03:37 PM.

  22. #72
    BrianH
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    neverending has informed me taht nobody is going to touch this thread.

    That's fine if true…
    If that is what NE said, I would say that is pretty much proven at this point to be incorrect. Obviously others have touched this thread.

    But I don’t think that anyone has called you on the falsehood of your premise. I will respond though, and I will point out the falsehood and the total lack of faith in God on your part. And I will do it because I think your question and your own answer demonstrate the profound difference between Mormons (you) and Christians (those who actually have faith in God and in His holy Word).

    Mr. “Sir” asks, ""If you knew for sure that God was speaking to you and God asked you to take out your wife into the backyard and sacrifice her would you do it?" …and then trumpets the ease of his question.

    First, lest you accuse me of doing the Mormon thing and avoiding the question, I will give you the simple answer: no …and you will doubtlessly respond by ignoring and/or parsing out my whole answer to avoid the rest of my response in your predicable effort to try to cover the truth that you have made so plain.

    But secondly, the truth is, Mormons - or at least YOU, would actually belieeeeeeve that God told you to murder you wife in the first place. That is the difference between YOU (whether you personally or Mormons in general) and a Christian man. YOU would believe such a “command” because, 1. being spiritually dead, you fundamentally lack any spiritual discernment to begin with, and 2.you do not trust God’s word over your own personal intuitions. That is the primary difference between YOU and those who actually do believe God and have enough faith in His word to know that he would never ask us to do such a thing. The FACT is, the Word of God instructs Christians to love our wives and to give ourselves for them as Christ gave himself for the church (Eph 5:25). Here’s a clue for Mormons: Jesus did not kill his bride but you would.

    Then again, why would YOU, a Mormon actually believe the word of God? You would probably convince yourself with some lame boilerplate LDS excuse, such as pronouncing your faith in the limp insinuations of the LDS church that the Book of Ephesians was not “translated correctly”, or some other lame dribble rather than believing Jesus Christ himself who said that his word would never p*** away.

    Finally, one thing is certain: I am VERY glad that I am not a Mormon wife, lest my god-husband decides that to obey “God” he must kill me and I bet there are plenty of Mormon wives who, in the face of your confession above, would wish that they had not married a man who would think that God wanted their husbands to kill them.

    -BH

    .

  23. #73
    Sir
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianH View Post
    If that is what NE said, I would say that is pretty much proven at this point to be incorrect. Obviously others have touched this thread.

    But I don’t think that anyone has called you on the falsehood of your premise. I will respond though, and I will point out the falsehood and the total lack of faith in God on your part. And I will do it because I think your question and your own answer demonstrate the profound difference between Mormons (you) and Christians (those who actually have faith in God and in His holy Word).

    Mr. “Sir” asks, ""If you knew for sure that God was speaking to you and God asked you to take out your wife into the backyard and sacrifice her would you do it?" …and then trumpets the ease of his question.

    First, lest you accuse me of doing the Mormon thing and avoiding the question, I will give you the simple answer: no …and you will doubtlessly respond by ignoring and/or parsing out my whole answer to avoid the rest of my response in your predicable effort to try to cover the truth that you have made so plain.

    But secondly, the truth is, Mormons - or at least YOU, would actually belieeeeeeve that God told you to murder you wife in the first place. That is the difference between YOU (whether you personally or Mormons in general) and a Christian man. YOU would believe such a “command” because, 1. being spiritually dead, you fundamentally lack any spiritual discernment to begin with, and 2.you do not trust God’s word over your own personal intuitions. That is the primary difference between YOU and those who actually do believe God and have enough faith in His word to know that he would never ask us to do such a thing. The FACT is, the Word of God instructs Christians to love our wives and to give ourselves for them as Christ gave himself for the church (Eph 5:25). Here’s a clue for Mormons: Jesus did not kill his bride but you would.

    Then again, why would YOU, a Mormon actually believe the word of God? You would probably convince yourself with some lame boilerplate LDS excuse, such as pronouncing your faith in the limp insinuations of the LDS church that the Book of Ephesians was not “translated correctly”, or some other lame dribble rather than believing Jesus Christ himself who said that his word would never p*** away.

    Finally, one thing is certain: I am VERY glad that I am not a Mormon wife, lest my god-husband decides that to obey “God” he must kill me and I bet there are plenty of Mormon wives who, in the face of your confession above, would wish that they had not married a man who would think that God wanted their husbands to kill them.

    -BH

    .
    I realize you have been away on punishment and are not aware of the previous discussions leading to this thread. So I understand your need to appeal to your programmed emotional response to attack me and my views and to also misrepresent the original premise to the question. It is also not surprising that you would disobey God were He to command you to do something, and it is a little interesting that you call the scenerio i presented "murder". Shows that you have mossed much of the conversations previous to this to make a reasonable response.

    thanks for living down to my expectations.

  24. #74
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir View Post
    It is also not surprising that you would disobey God were He to command you to do something. . .
    Could you answer my question?
    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    We are commanded to obey God and I strive to do so. What else do you propose that I should do that is not found in the NT?

  25. #75
    Sir
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    Could you answer my question?
    Whatever God commanded you.

    But as we all know and as you have said, unless it is written in the NT you will disbey God.

    Now back to the topic.

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