If you can't explain it then why did you bother quoting it?Originally Posted by dberrie2000
If you can't explain it then why did you bother quoting it?
Originally Posted by dberrie2000
Does not need any of my interpretation--it is plain enough just as it stands:
1 Timothy4:16--"Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee."
Self explanatory, and anathema to the faith alone theology.
I never stated that I could not explain it--only that it was self explanatory, and contradictory to the faith alone theology.
Again---how does that differ from these scriptures:
Acts2:40-42--"And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers."
1 Timothy4:16--"Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee."
Explain what you think that this verse is saying.
How do you save yourself?
The requirement for salvation is 100% obedience to all the Laws given by God.. Even the intensified commandments placed onto the letter of the Law by Jesus so we could really understand what the requirements of the law are.
Matthew 5:27-28
Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
The one Law that is required for salvation is listed in that chapter and to earn that blessing by what we do all we must do is obey it
Matthew 5:48
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
In Romans 2 5-11 the Holy Spirit through the Apostle Paul is teaching us the same thing.. If we would gain life then we MUST do well in following all the commandments of God, both in our bodies and in out hearts. And who does that? This passage also answers that question, the continuation of the context is found in the next chapter:
Romans 3:10
...There is none righteous, no, not one...
Yes Paul writes that we must be not just hearers of the Law but doers of the Law.. Then he tells us that none of us, NOT ONE is such a person. This is the Gospel. We must come to agree with God that we are sinners, turn from that sin and toward Jesus by faith and accept the gift of salvation through His grace..
Romans 2:26
...I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
The point then in pointing out that only those who keep the Law can be saved is to point out our need for Jesus. For He that is perfect and has the power to impute His righteousness on to those who believe in Him.. This is why we say we are saved by His grace through Faith.. Because we have already failed and need the righteous One to make us righteousness all by what He has done not what we can do.. Mormonism teaches the inverse. It teaches a salvation by grace, yes, but that is based on being offered only after we have done all we can do (2 Nephi 25:23).. Mormonism is then upside down and backward to what the real Gospel of Jesus is. The Gospel of salvation by Grace through FAITH and NOT OF WORKS.. IHS jim
Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
Psalm 119:105
Faith is never alone..
We are saved when we put faith in christ but this faith always walks hand in hand with works..
Works cant save anyone at all...but a lack of works is a sign of dead faith...
I completely agree---with works our faith is dead.
I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?
with "out" works......
So do works save us?...
No
Does baptism save us?....
No, if you mean simply going under water, then no, its a work that can only show that salvation has come, it alone is a sign of faith, but it is a work and so as we all know works cant save us, it alone has limited value
Can a person be saved though baptism?
Yes.
does being under water save us?
No
Can a person be saved while under the water?
Yes.
So works and the water of baptism cant save anyone?
yes, they cant save by themselves, but they can represent in a real physical manner that salvation has come.
baptism is a work, it's something that we do with our bodies.
But it is not magic, it cant save anyone just be being under water, or by saying magic words as you go under....
In other words,,,You cant save people against their will.
You cant go to a school pool and pray, and consider all the kids in the pool swimming at that moment to be "baptized Christians" just because the water came over their heads while you said a prayer.
But the works that we do come with the story of our salvation.
The story is the story of faith...and of our faith inspired works.
Last edited by alanmolstad; 07-14-2012 at 09:32 AM.
BigJ Mormonism is a works based religion. You earn your way to eternal life/exaltation. This is completely different than what the Bible teaches.
Is this an example of a works-based religion:
1 Timothy4:16--"Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee."
A works based religion is one in which your do a lot of works in order to apease your gods so that you can earn eternal life.
Perhaps you could explain what you think this verse is saying.
Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
1 Timothy4:16--"Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee."
Self explanatory, and anathema to the faith alone theology.
Again--self explanatory. Do you believe that this verse cons***utes a "works-based theology"?
To confirm a doctrine as being the truth before you confirm it even if that conformation is only to yourself is somehow works based salvation? Just how is that works salvation.. Maybe by defending the real truth that a man is saved by God's grace through Faith and NOT OF WORKS Timothy's salvation is preserved? That makes a lot more sense than seeing works salvation in that verse.. IHS jim
Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
Psalm 119:105
1 Timothy4:16--"Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee."
I have no idea what you think it means. Can you tell me or not?
Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
1 Timothy4:16--"Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee."
Self explanatory, and anathema to the faith alone theology.
Originally Posted by Billyray View Post----Perhaps you could explain what you think this verse is saying.
dberrie---Again--self explanatory. Do you believe that this verse cons***utes a "works-based theology"?
That is the question I have constantly asked the faith alone to answer here. Is 1 Timothy4:16 an example of "works-based theology"? Acts2:38? Acts5:32?
The faith alone here are the ones who use the phrase "works-based theology"--not the LDS.
So--is 1 Timothy an example of a works-based theology? It's a simple yes or no answer--which the faith alone have refused to answer.
And a work that the scriptures state bring God's grace:
Acts 2:38---King James Version (KJV)
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
And what do you do with all of the verses that say that works do not contribute for salvation?
Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post--baptism is a work, it's something that we do with our bodies.bump for alanmolstaddberrie---And a work that the scriptures state bring God's grace:
Acts 2:38---King James Version (KJV)
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Last edited by dberrie2000; 10-22-2012 at 04:35 PM.
It clearly states that works do not play a role in salvation.
Chrisatians are simply not judged as are the LOST...
For the Lost are judged onto their damnation....
But the Christian will receive his rewards for thre things that happen in the flesh.
Thus while the LOST are in danger in the Judgement, the Christian will only face the moment of receiving their rewards!...I truly look forward to that most blessed day!
And the scriptures are plain as to who will be judged--what will be their reward--and when that will happen:
John 5:28-29----King James Version (KJV)
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Yes, and as you can see, the Christian is NOT JUDGED onto condemnation, but rather we receive our blessing and rewards!
the Lost on the other hand are fully condemned at the Judgement and are sent to the lake of fire to burn there foreever...and ever....and ever....
thus the Lost look forward with dread and fear to the return of Christ for they will only be judged at that time and be condemned.
But the Christian looks forward to the return of Christ, for we have NOTHING to fear from our Lord!
its a time of rewards and rejoicing for the christian!......that's why the saved in heaven as well as the church alive on the earth both shout "Come Lord Jesus!"
Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post---And the scriptures are plain as to who will be judged--what will be their reward--and when that will happen:
John 5:28-29----King James Version (KJV)
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.I agree--but all are still judged according to works--after this life--and that for life or damnation. That flies in the face of faith alone theology.
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