If the Golden Plates were made available…what would happen?

[jdjhere]

RussianWolfe:

Did the people called Narods of the Grand Lakes regions in southern Peru exist? If they DID, please give archeological and textual (historical) proof that they did . If they did NOT exist, please explain WHY you came to this conclusion. Thanks.

Are you going to answer this RussianWolfe? It is NOT a diversion as you claim but a reasoned, researched scientific REASON why and how we know certain people and places existed in history. I can give you ZERO proof or evidence that the Narods existed or that there was a place called Grand Lakes in Peru. I came to the conclusion that they did not ever exist because there is no archeological or historical proof that they ever existed because as we all know, of course, I made them up. This is called common sense. Now, show us your proof historically and archeologically that Nephites existed and I for one will start to take you more seriously. Thanks for showing us in advance.

[Radix]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Hey Marvin are you ever going to give us any proof for the Nephites living in the America?

Of course he will not. His religion is too incompetent.

[Radix]

Originally Posted by Russianwolfe

What is really pathetic is your continual running away from the claim that started this whole thing. I have even given you a reference and the complete post and yet you still avoid talking about your claim.

Thanks for providing the evidence that you have no ability to back up your claims.

Marvin

PS Why is it when ever I try to get you to support your claim, you change the subject?

I do not change the subject, your just programmed to not accept the answer. And why is it I am the only one who is obligated to answer any questions? How about a little legitimate proof of Nephites? The only thing we see from you is your whining that nobody seems to be able to read your mind. You claim research, and produce nothing (that was another recent thread), and here you have not provided an iota of information about the Nephites. Of course we understand why, that is because they are fic***ious. As I am typing this out, I see you are doing the only thing you can. You just complain about everyone else's answers, because your substanceless religion has no answers to anyone else's questions here.

[Libby]

Book of Mormon Evidences - Dr. Daniel Peterson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiNgnk_L748

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJor1...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MPv5...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MPv5...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6-W8...eature=related

[Libby]

Another very interesting series of evidence for the Book of Mormon (a re****al to a critic's video called "The Bible vs Book of Mormon")

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPlCu...watch_response

This is a several part series (13, I think) which you can find at the site.

[BigJulie]

Libby, I also have a great-great (can't remember the number of greats) grandfather who recorded in his journal that when he prayed about whether the church was true, an angel appeared to him and showed him the gold plates. (This was during the first years of the church.) Well, as I know that my family members did not tend to be crazy; were very hard working, and were very honest; that is a strong witness to me as well. There is nothing else in his journal to lead one to believe that he was not in his right mind or that he did not take life very seriously.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Libby, I also have a great-great (can't remember the number of greats) grandfather who recorded in his journal that when he prayed about whether the church was true, an angel appeared to him and showed him the gold plates.

I believe it J because Satan can appear as an angel of light.

2 Corinthians 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

[jdjhere]

Libby, even though you say you are no longer LDS you do seem, at times, to want to defend certain claims and positions of theirs, which is fine, but because of that I will direct my question to you instead because RussianWolfe has not even TRIED to answer it.

Show us proof historically and archeologically that Nephites existed in America (or ANYPLACE for that matter) and I for one will start to take the BOM more seriously.

I watched two of the videos you posted and did not even get CLOSE to an answer for my above question. Could you please tell me which one of these videos answers my question above? Thank you.

[BigJulie]

Did you watch the last video she gave in which it has been shown that the beliefs about the native americans in the past have been slowly refuted and that the culture is more in line with the Book of Mormon?

A friend of mine went to South America on his mission and he said that there is history there that is consistent with the Book of Mormon teachings.

Lastly, to anyone who thinks that the angelic witnesses are proof that it is Satan who is overseeing the Book of Mormon, I share the lives of those who live by the principles taught in the Book of Mormon. We learn that those things that teach of Christ produce goodness and those things which are of Satan produce the things of the flesh. My own experience shows that the teachings of the Book of Mormon are true in that they produce the fruits of the spirit.

Scriptures from the Book of Mormon:

"Wherefore, how great the importance to make these things known unto the inhabitants of the earth, that they may know that there is no flesh that can dwell in the presence of God, save it be through the merits, and mercy, and grace of the Holy Messiah, who layeth down his life according to the flesh, and taketh it again by the power of the Spirit, that he may bring to p*** the resurrection of the dead, being the first that should rise."

"For as death hath p***ed upon all men, to fulfil the merciful plan of the great Creator, there must needs be a power of resurrection, and the resurrection must needs come unto man by reason of the fall; and the fall came by reason of transgression; and because man became fallen they were cut off from the presence of the Lord. Wherefore, it must needs be an infinite atonement -- save it should be an infinite atonement this corruption could not put on incorruption. Wherefore, the first judgment which came upon man must needs have remained to an endless duration. And if so, this flesh must have laid down to rot and to crumble to its mother earth, to rise no more."

"And this death of which I have spoken, which is the spiritual death, shall deliver up its dead; which spiritual death is hell; wherefore, death and hell must deliver up their dead, and hell must deliver up its captive spirits, and the grave must deliver up its captive bodies, and the bodies and the spirits of men will be restored one to the other; and it is by the power of the resurrection of the Holy One of Israel."

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Lastly, to anyone who thinks that the angelic witnesses are proof that it is Satan who is overseeing the Book of Mormon, I share the lives of those who live by the principles taught in the Book of Mormon. We learn that those things that teach of Christ produce goodness and those things which are of Satan produce the things of the flesh. My own experience shows that the teachings of the Book of Mormon are true in that they produce the fruits of the spirit.

Your life is consistent with the lies of Satan in that you worship false gods, follow a false gospel, and believe that you can become a god/goddess.

[Radix]

Originally Posted by Libby

Another very interesting series of evidence for the Book of Mormon (a re****al to a critic's video called "The Bible vs Book of Mormon")

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPlCu...watch_response

This is a several part series (13, I think) which you can find at the site.

Before I spend a lot of time watching these videos, do any of them provide one iota of evidence for the existence of Nephites? I have written a review of a lecture of his in the past. PaPa even got him to look at my review. Peterson responded with a snarky, sarcastic remark, did not even bother to address a single comment. His remark was made on the old MADB site.

Again, do any of the videos provide any info on Nephites?

[Radix]

Libby. I just looked at the first part of this series of videos. Ppplleea***ee. The first expert is an attorney named John Welch. At least he admits "We do not have definitive proof yet."
Nice of him to let me know so I will not waste my time chasing "plausible" Mormon theories.

[Libby]

Originally Posted by jdjhere

Libby, even though you say you are no longer LDS you do seem, at times, to want to defend certain claims and positions of theirs, which is fine, but because of that I will direct my question to you instead because RussianWolfe has not even TRIED to answer it.

Show us proof historically and archeologically that Nephites existed in America (or ANYPLACE for that matter) and I for one will start to take the BOM more seriously.

I watched two of the videos you posted and did not even get CLOSE to an answer for my above question. Could you please tell me which one of these videos answers my question above? Thank you.

Hi, JD. I am inclined to defend the Book of Mormon, partly, because I have never seen any serious criticism of it. Not being able to, precisely, pinpoint where it took place, doesn't mean it didn't exist, and is not a reason to discount it, IMO. There are a lot of questionable things in the Bible, that people do not discount, so why have a different standard for the Book of Mormon? Plus, there are many things (evidence) in it's favor, such as the Hebraisms, chaism, etc. Plus, just about every point made by critics (no horses, no chariots, no specific grains mentioned, etc) has been proven wrong on almost all counts. You will find that in those last set of videos provided.

Plus, it has been fairly well established that Joseph Smith did not/could not have written this book. Even experts have testified that it has several authors.

On top of that, I had a spiritual witness of it, myself, that I'm not about to deny.

That doesn't mean I believe everything about the church and I can even believe that Joseph may have been a fallen prophet...but, I do still believe that, at least, parts of the Book of Mormon were, somehow, inspired or given by God.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Libby

I am inclined to defend the Book of Mormon, partly, because I have never seen any serious criticism of it

Libby is that some kind of joke? There isn't any evidence for the Nephites living in the Americas. The book of mormon is religious fiction.

[Libby]

Not a joke, Billy, but you are en***led to your opinion.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Libby

Not a joke, Billy, but you are en***led to your opinion.

Libby do you have any ancient writings that speak about the Nephites or the Lamanites in the Americas?

[Radix]

I watch the segment on Reformed Egyptian. Not a single mention of the Caractors Smith provided Harris to show Anthon. How weak. Also noticed that I have been blocked by FAIR from leaving any comments. If I were to block them from a video I made, then LDS would look at me as a coward. Makes me wonder what I am suppose to think of them.

[Libby]

I think responses like this only tend to prove the OP of this thread. For some people, there would never be enough proof.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Libby

I think responses like this only tend to prove the OP of this thread. For some people, there would never be enough proof.

How about any proof that the Nephites actually were a real people group who lived in the Americas?

[Russianwolfe]

Originally Posted by Radix

Of course he will not. His religion is too incompetent.

But you have not supported your claim. Why is it that I am the only one who is obligated to support my ***ertions, but you get off scott-free?

You made the claim and have not provided any evidence to support it. And you call me a coward?

Marvin

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Russianwolfe

But you have not supported your claim.

Marvin

Marvin you are the one who has no evidence. Are you going to gives us any or not?

[Libby]

You have been given, at least, "some" evidence, Billy, and there are books and papers and tons more where that came from. Have you bothered with any of it?

[Radix]

Originally Posted by Libby

You have been given, at least, "some" evidence, Billy, and there are books and papers and tons more where that came from. Have you bothered with any of it?

Just where is the tons of evidence for Nephites?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Libby

You have been given, at least, "some" evidence, Billy, and there are books and papers and tons more where that came from.

If you think that there is REAL evidence then pick what you think is the best evidence for the Nephites in the Americas so we can discuss it.

[jdjhere]

BigJulie said: Did you watch the last video she gave in which it has been shown that the beliefs about the native americans in the past have been slowly refuted and that the culture is more in line with the Book of Mormon?

No, but I watched the first two, thinking it would show that their is proof for a race of people called Nephites in ancient America. Thanks BigJulie. I am really hoping to see if anybody in the last video talks about historical or archeological proof that the Nephites existed or my question will not be answered though and I will just see the last video as a smoke screen. Thanks again...here goes.