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Thread: If the Golden Plates were made available…what would happen?

  1. #51
    jdjhere
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    OK... I watched the 9:53 Minute video by Mormon Professor Daniel C Petersen and the 2:20 minute Video by the founder of ARMS John Welch and there is exactly ZERO evidence mentioned by EITHER of these men that there is either historical or archeological evidence that the Nephites were a REAL race of people that existed in ancient America. As a matter of fact, Nephites are not even MENTIONED at all. As a matter of fact, John Welch ADMITS that the LDS church, in his own words, "We don't have definitive proof yet..." about archelogical or historical proofs for the BOM. You guys owe me 12 minutes of my life back.

  2. #52
    RealFakeHair
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    Default The Plastic Plates

    Okay, so it doesn't sound so spiritual as "Golden"
    How bout the everlasting, but changing once-in-awhile Gospel of Latter day Saints?
    Or Joseph Smith jr. sometimes Prophet, and full time hanky-panky?
    Don't think so.
    Golden Plates, if I could just find them, it would be better than winning the lottery.
    I think I'll go have a walk in the woods.

  3. #53
    jdjhere
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    Those videos proved NOTHING. They are just an LDS Professor and Lawyer SAYING "nuh-uh." That's it. Those videos are what I was pointed to as proof??!!?? I mean... c'mon guys! ANYTHING (Historical Writing's or Archeological finds) for SCIENTIFIC PROOF of the Nephite race of people existing (and PLEASE do not tell me you have already given me some). If those videos are your proof, then I KNOW Nephites never existed. Do you have anything else Historical or scientific? Thanks.

  4. #54
    RealFakeHair
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    Default I had it, and lost it.

    Quote Originally Posted by jdjhere View Post
    Those videos proved NOTHING. They are just an LDS Professor and Lawyer SAYING "nuh-uh." That's it. Those videos are what I was pointed to as proof??!!?? I mean... c'mon guys! ANYTHING (Historical Writing's or Archeological finds) for SCIENTIFIC PROOF of the Nephite race of people existing (and PLEASE do not tell me you have already given me some). If those videos are your proof, then I KNOW Nephites never existed. Do you have anything else Historical or scientific? Thanks.
    In the eye of the beholder, or something?
    Like finding the pot of gold at then end of the rainbow.
    The Fountain of Youth, or a mormon that doesn't believe in UFOs.
    It won't happen.

  5. #55
    Libby
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdjhere View Post
    OK... I watched the 9:53 Minute video by Mormon Professor Daniel C Petersen and the 2:20 minute Video by the founder of ARMS John Welch and there is exactly ZERO evidence mentioned by EITHER of these men that there is either historical or archeological evidence that the Nephites were a REAL race of people that existed in ancient America. As a matter of fact, Nephites are not even MENTIONED at all. As a matter of fact, John Welch ADMITS that the LDS church, in his own words, "We don't have definitive proof yet..." about archelogical or historical proofs for the BOM. You guys owe me 12 minutes of my life back.
    Oh wow, 12 whole minutes and you're an expert?

    This is part of the problem. You guys will watch HOURS of anti-Mormon videos and then think you are some kind of expert on the subject. But, when asked to watch several videos from the church and it's just too much trouble and not worth it.

    Once you've really put some effort into it, then perhaps some LDS might take you seriously. (Not just you, but the collective you)

    In the meantime, I have better things to do.

  6. #56
    Radix
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdjhere View Post
    Those videos proved NOTHING. They are just an LDS Professor and Lawyer SAYING "nuh-uh." That's it. Those videos are what I was pointed to as proof??!!?? I mean... c'mon guys! ANYTHING (Historical Writing's or Archeological finds) for SCIENTIFIC PROOF of the Nephite race of people existing (and PLEASE do not tell me you have already given me some). If those videos are your proof, then I KNOW Nephites never existed. Do you have anything else Historical or scientific? Thanks.
    jdjhere, I would be fine if they would just admit they actually have nothing.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdjhere View Post
    ..."We don't have definitive proof yet..." about archelogical or historical proofs for the BOM. You guys owe me 12 minutes of my life back.
    No... because you were warned by the scriptures before you started.
    Those who seek for a sign, shall not be given one. (Matt 16:4)

  8. #58
    RealFakeHair
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    Default Foot in mouth!

    Quote Originally Posted by Libby View Post
    Oh wow, 12 whole minutes and you're an expert?

    This is part of the problem. You guys will watch HOURS of anti-Mormon videos and then think you are some kind of expert on the subject. But, when asked to watch several videos from the church and it's just too much trouble and not worth it.

    Once you've really put some effort into it, then perhaps some LDS might take you seriously. (Not just you, but the collective you)

    In the meantime, I have better things to do.
    Does 40 + years count?

  9. #59
    RealFakeHair
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    Default What?

    Quote Originally Posted by theway View Post
    No... because you were warned by the scriptures before you started.
    Those who seek for a sign, shall not be given one. (Matt 16:4)
    He went to the woods to pray about which church to join?

  10. #60
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libby View Post
    Oh wow, 12 whole minutes and you're an expert?
    Give us what you think is the best piece of so called evidence so we can talk about it.

  11. #61
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by theway View Post
    No... because you were warned by the scriptures before you started.
    Those who seek for a sign, shall not be given one. (Matt 16:4)
    So this is your cop out answer for not giving us any evidence. Nice!

  12. #62
    Radix
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libby View Post
    I think responses like this only tend to prove the OP of this thread. For some people, there would never be enough proof.
    Your lack of a cogent response is sad here Libby. I realized you did the best you could, but it would be easier to say you really do not have anything.

  13. #63
    jdjhere
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    Uh...Libby? Even though you are not LDS, you were the one that gave us video "evidence"... and now you are blaming ME for watching it?? I am just saying it gave ZERO evidence because it does not even mention Nephites. Well, garsh, aren't I a sucker. I dont claim to be an expert after watching the 12 minutes of video, I just saw zero evidence of what I was asking for. Now, for one last time, how about some actual evidence, by name, that the N-E-P-H-I-T-E-S actually existed in ancient America by producing some kind of Archealogical artifact or legitimate historical document that mentions them? That is all I am after. No more videos that don't even mention Nephites please. Thank you.

  14. #64
    Libby
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radix View Post
    Your lack of a cogent response is sad here Libby. I realized you did the best you could, but it would be easier to say you really do not have anything.
    No, it wouldn't, because that would be a lie.

  15. #65
    Libby
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdjhere View Post
    Uh...Libby? Even though you are not LDS, you were the one that gave us video "evidence"... and now you are blaming ME for watching it?? I am just saying it gave ZERO evidence because it does not even mention Nephites. Well, garsh, aren't I a sucker. I dont claim to be an expert after watching the 12 minutes of video, I just saw zero evidence of what I was asking for. Now, for one last time, how about some actual evidence, by name, that the N-E-P-H-I-T-E-S actually existed in ancient America by producing some kind of Archealogical artifact or legitimate historical document that mentions them? That is all I am after. No more videos that don't even mention Nephites please. Thank you.
    Did you watch every single video? I don't think anyone can possibly watch all of those videos and claim there is "no" evidence, whatsoever. That, plus, numerous other works, do not add up to ZERO. Sorry.

  16. #66
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libby View Post
    No, it wouldn't, because that would be a lie.
    Then it should be easy for you to give us some real evidence that the Nephites actually were a people group that really lived in the Americas.

  17. #67
    Libby
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    Watch the videos, Billy, read some Nibley and numerous others, who have talked about the Book of Mormon.

    I already gave some basic examples...Hebraisms/Chiasm...I have seen some pretty credible claims about an area in Central America that fits the landscape in the Book of Mormon to a tee...and much more..

  18. #68
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libby View Post

    I already gave some basic examples...Hebraisms/Chiasm...
    Libby these do not prove that the Nephites were a real people group that existed in the Americas. Libby wake up--the book of mormon is religious fiction.

  19. #69
    jdjhere
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    I watched 4 of them and NONE of the ones I watched ever even mentioned Nephites. All I want to know, so I dont waste time, is do ANY of the remaining videos mention the Nephites by name and do they give archeological or historical evidences that they ever actually existed. This is simply a Yes or No answer. If the answer is Yes, please point me to the correct video. If the answer is No, just say so and we can move on. If there is archeological or historical evidence (proof) in these videos this would be the first that I have heard of any and it would be interesting to follow up on it. Thank you.

  20. #70
    Radix
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libby View Post
    No, it wouldn't, because that would be a lie.
    Then one more time Libby, provide some evidence of Nephites. There is NOTHING in the videos you linked. I watched those Peterson videos a couple of years ago. Was quite disappointed, was expecting some sort of challenge, and it did not really provide much.

    Mormons for decades have claimed there is more and more evidence backing up the Book of Mormon. It is NOTHING more than wishful speculations. Ex. the tree of Lehi Stella. Going back even further LDS ***umed the Mayan and Aztec temples could have been early "Mormon" temples. ALL wishful thinking.

  21. #71
    Libby
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    Book of Mormon Evidences discusses some of the factors that suggest the Book of Mormon may be an ancient document. Contrary to the claims of our critics, there are impressive findings that make it difficult to explain away the Book of Mormon as a nineteenth-century fraud from Joseph Smith. Such evidence is not "proof" but represents indications of plausibility that demand further attention.
    http://www.jefflindsay.com/BMEvidences.shtml

    Evidences of the Book of Mormon

    Dr. Peterson has always put a lot store by Book of Mormon Witnesses, which, after reading a book by that ***le, have to say is pretty good evidence.

    http://the-book-of-mormon.com/

    Archaeological Evidence and the Book of Mormon by Michael R. Ash

    This was the video I was speaking about earlier, regarding Book of Mormon lands.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNcUqmRq9KY

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdjhere View Post
    I watched 4 of them and NONE of the ones I watched ever even mentioned Nephites. All I want to know, so I dont waste time, is do ANY of the remaining videos mention the Nephites by name and do they give archeological or historical evidences that they ever actually existed. This is simply a Yes or No answer. If the answer is Yes, please point me to the correct video. If the answer is No, just say so and we can move on. If there is archeological or historical evidence (proof) in these videos this would be the first that I have heard of any and it would be interesting to follow up on it. Thank you.
    So basically you want a "Nephi slept here" sign. Well... there is not one.
    Ironically though there has been found a "Jesus sleeps here" bone box which has been found, that actually contains bones.
    The first response by everyone was that it was a fake.
    The only problem is that last week they found the earliest known writing by a Christian, on another bonebox nearby that could not be a fake. They say that this find leads credence to the fact that the, "Jesus son of Joseph bonebox" was not a fake.

    So the problem for you is; do you believe the evidence that is right in front of you, that Jesus' bones have been found, or do you discount the evidence and go by your faith that it has to be some other Jesus son of Joseph and Mary?

  23. #73
    jdjhere
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    I wil not follow a rabbitt hole while my request goes unanswered TheWay. And I am not really interested in where "Nephi" slept but I would LOVE to see evidence for a WHOLE race of people called Nephites. I am going to watch the last video that Libby posted and see where THAT takes me instead of switching the subject to Jesus's "Burial Box." If you want to talk about that, start another thread. I am sure you will get lots of hits and the LDS and Evangelicals will probably agree on a few things in this area. I am sticking with evidences for Nephites. Thanks.
    Last edited by jdjhere; 02-29-2012 at 02:12 PM.

  24. #74
    jdjhere
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    Honestly, I think if an entire RACE of people called "Nephites" existed that it would not be that big a challenge to find SOME KIND of substantial evidence for that existence. Did they have tools, money, buildings or structures, clothing, weapons, boats, jewelry, historical books kept, other races of people mentioning them in their books, legends or lores? You would think we could find something of them and YES, why NOT by name? We found someone names Jesus's burial box....correct?

  25. #75
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by theway View Post
    So basically you want a "Nephi slept here" sign.
    I want evidence that the Nephites actually were a people group that lived in the Americas. Isn't that a reasonable request?

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