Voting in the Deep South

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Russianwolfe

In the Bible, there was no need to command polygamy because everyone believed it was good and proper for a man to have more than one life when he became prosperous. What would have to be commanded was to have only one life, which is what Paul was doing when he told Timothy that one of the qualifications of a bishop was to be the husband of one wife. Different culture, different needs and different commandments.

Hey Marvin can you show us where God commands members in the NT church to accept polygamy?

[Libby]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Thanks Libby.

The fact of the matter is that people who want to criticize the early members of the church and their practice of pologamy often do what RealFakeHair does and act like the whole thing was sexual and these were a bunch of hyper-sexualized men running around having their way.

But anyone who actually reads the stories knows that for the most part, this was really hard living and a really hard time to be alive. Survival was the name of the game and many suffered greatly as they attempted to eke out an existance.

Yeah, no kidding. I have read some of those stories and life was extremely difficult, back then. I think the critics just like to talk about sex. (and other people's underwear )

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by Libby

Yeah, no kidding. I have read some of those stories and life was extremely difficult, back then. I think the critics just like to talk about sex. (and other people's underwear )

Actually, since Mormonism is a sex-based cult, made so by the first Mormon "prophet," Joseph Smith, it is an integral part of the Mormon cult. When you can't get to the highest heaven without some strange, bizarre "temple marriage," and get a special name that your hubby can use to call you forth from the grave, you better bet we'll bring these things up.

As far as their underwear goes, it's just another example of what people will do to please their false gods.

Mormons don't like to discuss their esoteric system. They conceal their practices and beliefs, even from converts. That's why only 25 per cent of those converts baptized into the cult remain in it.

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Hey Marvin can you show us where God commands members in the NT church to accept polygamy?

God, of course, commanded monogamy in the NT. Smith was not happily married and wanted more and more women. He projected that onto his "god," and got a "revelation" commanding adultery. It's as simple as that.

He even said Emma was going to be "destroyed" if she didn't accept his adulterous relationships - however, he's the one that got destroyed. He should have thought a little more before cursing his own wife.

[Libby]

Originally Posted by Apologette

Actually, since Mormonism is a sex-based cult, made so by the first Mormon "prophet," Joseph Smith, it is an integral part of the Mormon cult. When you can't get to the highest heaven without some strange, bizarre "temple marriage," and get a special name that your hubby can use to call you forth from the grave, you better bet we'll bring these things up.

As far as their underwear goes, it's just another example of what people will do to please their false gods.

Mormons don't like to discuss their esoteric system. They conceal their practices and beliefs, even from converts. That's why only 25 per cent of those converts baptized into the cult remain in it.

Sorry, but this is ridiculous. It is not a "sex-based cult". The Church is built on the teachings of Jesus Christ, as provided by prophets of the Restoration.

There is a belief in eternal marriage, yes. There is a belief that spirit children will be created, in the Celestial Kingdom, but the exact process is not known.

So, who invented the term “Celestial sex?"

Coexisting with these two deities was a limitless amount of cosmic spirit matter known as 'intelligence,' out of which Elohim and Heavenly Mother made countless spirit babies via celestial sex. —One Nation Under Gods, p. 285
∗ ∗ ∗
The quote illustrated above is a good example of how critics twist LDS beliefs into a form that makes them look ridiculous. Quotes made by early LDS leaders are often used to support the claim that Latter-day Saints believe in “Celestial sex.” It should be noted, however, that LDS leaders have never used the term "Celestial sex." This phrase was coined by critics of the Church, likely for its “shock value” in portraying the following concepts in LDS belief:

The belief that God the Father has a physical body.

The belief that there exists a Heavenly Mother who also possesses a physical body.

The belief that our Heavenly Father and Mother together are capable of creating “spirit children.”

Critics take these ideas and combine them, leading to a declaration that Latter-day Saints therefore believe in “Celestial sex.” Various anti-Mormon works then use this idea to mock LDS beliefs or shock their readers—though this claim does not describe LDS beliefs, but the critics' caricature of them.

The critics' ***umptions simply take what we know about our physical world and naively apply it to the afterlife. When one examines the critics’ point further, a key question ought to be raised: How does the union of two immortal beings in a physical manner produce spirit offspring? Latter-day Saint belief is that “spirit children” only receive a physical body upon being born on earth.

This question, of course, cannot be answered. It is pointless to speculate on the exact manner in which “spirit children” are produced, and to ***ume that this occurs through a process called “Celestial sex” is to apply a worldly mindset to a spiritual process. The bottom line: Latter-day Saints do not know the mechanism by which “spirit children” are produced, and no LDS doctrine claims that "celestial sex" is the means.

http://en.fairmormon.org/Mormonism_a...lestial_sex%22

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Libby

Sorry, but this is ridiculous. It is not a "sex-based cult". The Church is built on the teachings of Jesus Christ, as provided by prophets of the Restoration.

There is a belief in eternal marriage, yes. There is a belief that spirit children will be created, in the Celestial Kingdom, but the exact process is not known.



http://en.fairmormon.org/Mormonism_a...lestial_sex%22

Libby, thank you for posting this. It appears that there are some who are bent on twisting our doctrines to fit their owned warped paradigms. First, they must ***ume they really know what we don't know and second, they must ***ume that sex is some terrible, evil thing that God condemns rather than a means of pro-creation and, when part of the appropriate bounds of marriage (which God has set) one of the most wonderful parts of the human relationship which not only brings a husband and wife closer together but produces children, one of God's greatest gifts. My moments of greatest joy come the relationship I have with my husband (which includes sex) and the relationship I have with my children. When I think about giving birth to my babies, with my husband next to me---I just can't think of a time that I feel closer and more appreciative to God for my wonderful life! I get to have that now again renewed as I experience having grand-children.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Libby, thank you for posting this. It appears that there are some who are bent on twisting our doctrines to fit their owned warped paradigms.

No BigJ we get it right and you don't like it. We are not the ones who believes that you and your husband will procreate spirit babies to populate your own world someday--that is what you belive. Your constant denial of what you really believe is getting tiresome.

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by Billyray

No BigJ we get it right and you don't like it. We are not the ones who believes that you and your husband will procreate spirit babies to populate your own world someday--that is what you belive. Your constant denial of what you really believe is getting tiresome.

This is the utter deception of . They have two sets of beliefs. One for the general public which they use to proselytize, and the other for the inner core group of Mormons. It's a very sad situation. If you point out the one, they lapse into the other. The only hope is simply to tell the truth so that lurkers will be exposed to the true teachings of the cult:

Mormonism LDS Apostle Melvin J. Ballard (1873-1939) wrote, "What do we mean by endless or eternal increase? We mean that through the righteousness and faithfulness of men and women who keep the commandments of God they will come forth with celestial bodies, fitted and prepared to enter into their great, high and eternal glory in the celestial kingdom of God; and unto them, through their preparation, there will come children, who will be spirit children. I don't think that is very difficult to comprehend and understand" (Three Degrees of Glory, p.10).

Orson Pratt: "As soon as each God has begotten many millions of male and female spirits, and his Heavenly inheritance becomes too small, to comfortably accommodate his great family, he, in connection with his sons, organizes a new world, after a similar order to the one which we now inhabit, where he sends both the male and female spirits to inhabit tabernacles of flesh and bones" (The Seer, p. 37).

McConkie: "Every person married in the temple for time and for all eternity has sealed upon him, conditioned upon his faithfulness, all of the blessings of the ancient patriarchs, including the crowning promise and ***urance of eternal increase, which means, literally, a posterity as numerous as the dust particles of the earth."

Let's face it, this sounds like Roman mythology, and that's why the LDS like to conceal their paganistic beliefs.

[BigJulie]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Apologette

This is the utter deception of . They have two sets of beliefs. One for the general public which they use to proselytize, and the other for the inner core group of Mormons. It's a very sad situation. If you point out the one, they lapse into the other. The only hope is simply to tell the truth so that lurkers will be exposed to the true teachings of the cult:

This is completely and utterly untrue. I have asked you multiple times if you will give full disclosure as to why the JoD has not been cannonized, and it appears it is you who refuse to give the whole truth.

Mormonism LDS Apostle Melvin J. Ballard (1873-1939) wrote, "What do we mean by endless or eternal increase? We mean that through the righteousness and faithfulness of men and women who keep the commandments of God they will come forth with celestial bodies, fitted and prepared to enter into their great, high and eternal glory in the celestial kingdom of God; and unto them, through their preparation, there will come children, who will be spirit children. I don't think that is very difficult to comprehend and understand" (Three Degrees of Glory, p.10).

We have no idea and it has never been revealed how spirit bodies come to be through procreation, but as I explained, we--unlike you, do not see our sexualities as an evil thing to be done away with when we are "perfected" in our resurrected bodies. But, a resurrected body is not the same as a earthly body and spirits are not the same as a resurrected body--so, this is unknown to us.

Orson Pratt: "As soon as each God has begotten many millions of male and female spirits, and his Heavenly inheritance becomes too small, to comfortably accommodate his great family, he, in connection with his sons, organizes a new world, after a similar order to the one which we now inhabit, where he sends both the male and female spirits to inhabit tabernacles of flesh and bones" (The Seer, p. 37).

Once again, can you please give full disclosure for regarding "The Seer"---as once again, this is not considered revelation, but discussion.

McConkie: "Every person married in the temple for time and for all eternity has sealed upon him, conditioned upon his faithfulness, all of the blessings of the ancient patriarchs, including the crowning promise and ***urance of eternal increase, which means, literally, a posterity as numerous as the dust particles of the earth."

Yes, you can find this same promise in the Bible given to Abraham.

So, I have two questions for you?
One: Is it absolutely known HOW that spirit bodies will come to be? Why do you think it is through intercourse?

Two: Do you think human sexuality is a wicked and evil thing that God ends upon our death?

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Two: Do you think human sexuality is a wicked and evil thing that God ends upon our death?

Sex is for reproduction within marriage.
As there is no marriage in the Kingdom, there is no sex. and no reproduction.

So I would not use the term "wicked" rather it's like a tool that is a moot point in the afterlife.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Sex is for reproduction within marriage.
As there is no marriage in the Kingdom, there is no sex. and no reproduction.

So I would not use the term "wicked" rather it's like a tool that is a moot point in the afterlife.

So, to you, God the great creator, upon perfecting your mortal body, takes away from it the ability to create. Is that your thinking? What about your other creative abilities? Will they be gone too?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

So, to you, God the great creator, upon perfecting your mortal body, takes away from it the ability to create. Is that your thinking? What about your other creative abilities? Will they be gone too?

Nowhere in the Bible does it state that we will procreate spirit babies in heaven BigJ.

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Nowhere in the Bible does it state that we will procreate spirit babies in heaven BigJ.

I had a grandson born on the 21, and a granddaughter born on the 23, of this month.
That's why I am hiding here on a Sa****ay here at the office.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

I had a grandson born on the 21, and a granddaughter born on the 23, of this month.
That's why I am hiding here on a Sa****ay here at the office.

I saw Billyray's link through you. . We are taught that we are the spirit offspring of God the Father even in the Bible. What we are not taught is how we are.

That said, I still find it fascinating that the critics of the LDS church seem to think procreation is a earthly thing that God would get rid of when perfecting our bodies.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

That said, I still find it fascinating that the critics of the LDS church seem to think procreation is a earthly thing that God would get rid of when perfecting our bodies.

What about those who are in the Terrestial and Telestial kingdoms BigJ?

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

So, to you, God the great creator, upon perfecting your mortal body, takes away from it the ability to create. Is that your thinking? What about your other creative abilities? Will they be gone too?

yes....there is no reproduction in the Kingdom.

There is no marriage in the kingdom...

There is none of this limited relationship that we have now in the kingdom.

The way we are going to be is compared to the angels....the angels dont have children,,,they dont have a next generation....they dont die and need replacing.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

yes....there is no reproduction in the Kingdom.

There is no marriage in the kingdom...

There is none of this limited relationship that we have now in the kingdom.

The way we are going to be is compared to the angels....the angels dont have children,,,they dont have a next generation....they dont die and need replacing.

It is not a matter of dying and needing replacing, but merely a great expansion through the great creator.

The kingdom of God is like a mustard seed....

To you, the great Creator of us all ends procreation with this life, to me--the procreative part of our bodies become useless. Interesting.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

To you, the great Creator of us all ends procreation with this life, to me--the procreative part of our bodies become useless. Interesting.

What is interesting is the fact that you believe you create spirit babies in heaven when there is not a hint of this concept in the Bible.

[Radix]

Originally Posted by Novato

Hi Radix,

If I caused offence I sincerely apologise. However if you examine the OP more exactly you might see that I stated:



The important word is seemingly.

My educational background is absolutely non-biblical. I have Masters Degrees in Political Science and Military subjects. I also have a, very old, BSc in Electronic Engineering. On a part time basis, just for fun, I completed a BA in History. One of the, very few, advantages of being a public servant. ( Smile)

Once again my apologies if I caused offence, that was not my intent.

Best regards,

Novato

I see that you have "seemingly" apologized. With all your non-Southern superiority, it is ashamed your still not able to recognize your arrogance.

[Novato]

Originally Posted by Radix

I see that you have "seemingly" apologized. With all your non-Southern superiority, it is ashamed your still not able to recognize your arrogance.

Thank you for your gracious acknowledgement of my apology, true Southern courtesy, not.

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by Novato

Thank you for your gracious acknowledgement of my apology, true Southern courtesy, not.

Ironic that you speak of "courtesy."

[Radix]

Originally Posted by Novato

Thank you for your gracious acknowledgement of my apology, true Southern courtesy, not.

True "seemingly" apology, NOT.

[alanmolstad]

The next test of the power of the Southern voter to effect change in the election will come with the naming of Mitt's VP pick.

The sway of the South may be so strong that Mitt needs to pick a VP from the South to firm-up his support there with the voters.

Mitt is from the very liberal NorthEast.....thus it seems normal for him to reach out to a different part of the country with the person he picks to run next to him as VP>

we shall see....

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Hey Marvin can you show us where God commands members in the NT church to accept polygamy?

Old, or new testament.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Novato

Hi All:

I must admit to a degree of puzzlement over the results in the Southern portion of the USA regarding the GOP primaries held there. It seems fairly obvious that Mitt Romney will win the eventual nomination, however I find the exit poll results quite fascinating in regard to the 80% of voters who align themselves to EV Christianity.

Since I have been many times in the South, and still remain puzzled by their, seemingly uneducated or uninformed, response to many things, I suppose I should understand the weirdness of their voting trends.

Romney came in third to Santorum & Grinich mostly because of the 80% of EV voters.

Primary voters are mostly members of different teams....and so the leader that gets his team out the most tends to do the best.
The results of the primary are totally normal, it's nothing to be so shocked about.
You have a strong Christian vote that came out for the people they felt best represented their values.
Both Santorum & Grinich have really reached out to the Christian body of voters...and made a very strong effort to reach out to the pro-Life conservative voter.

Now compare that to what Mitt did?

Mitt ran away from the pro-Life voter.

Mitt made no effort at all to draw closer to the pro-Life voter.

Mitt treated the pro-Life issue as a side issue that he never really wanted to run on.
When later Mitt ran for President I don't think there was even one single pro-Life ad sent out by his campaign in the States where it could have made the difference.

Im my home State that has a very strong pro-Life vote, there was not a single Mitt ad that was pro-life....talk about not firing up your base!

Mitt tried to run on the economy and other complected issues that no one really understands where he was any different than Obama....and he failed to run on the issues that would have won him the election.

What did happen however is that the whole Conservative end of the party has once again showed that unless it has it's voice listened to, the party will never win.
The future has to be with a strong outreach to the conservative Christian voter.....case-closed.