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Thread: Women Pastors

  1. #26
    Trinity
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    Quote Originally Posted by jade84116 View Post
    The original Greek can also be rendered as Junias which, would make it a man's name.
    That was modified by some Fathers of the Church to Julias because they were living in a patriarchal society (machoism/machismo). In the p***age of the New Testament and in the Greek koine it is a woman.

    She was probably the wife of Philologus [Romans 16:15].

    As in our days it was a common name for a woman in the antiquity. It was the 10th most popular name for girls born in the United States in 2007 and the top 150 names given to girls in the United States for the past 100 years.

    Trinity

  2. #27
    jade84116
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    Post Done Arguing

    Obviously, anything that I say will be rejected. In the end, the prophetess in Isaiah was his wife with her being called a prophetess by virtue of being his wife. Such also applies to the other references with the possible exception of Huldah that the Septuagint calls a son. Rational people can differ it would seem, but the patriarchal nature of society would go against your view of Women Pastors generally too boot. I won't argue this anymore.

  3. #28
    Trinity
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    Jesus and his twelve apostles were able to teach full time, and they did not have to work, because that was the women who were paying the bills, and with their own money.

    It is fun to see that a bunch of women were supporting thirteen men in their daily needs. They were sponsored by some very generous ladies.

    Luke 8:3
    And Joanna, the wife of Chuza, Herod's household manager; and Susanna; and many others, who ministered to and provided for Him and them out of their property and personal belongings.

    Women have always played important roles in the Church. Even from the beginning.

    Trinity
    Last edited by Trinity; 03-10-2009 at 11:27 PM.

  4. #29
    Norrin Radd
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    Quote Originally Posted by jade84116 View Post
    That's what I call reading something into the text that's just plain and simply not there. That's supposition! I prefer to let scripture speak for itself personally.
    Scripture cannot speak for itself if it is not translated properly. You say the experts and translators I cited are "reading in"; I say that the translators of the KJV, NASB, etc. are "reading in." Who determines which is correct?

  5. #30
    Norrin Radd
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    Quote Originally Posted by jade84116 View Post
    Obviously, anything that I say will be rejected.
    Not necessarily, but many of them will be strongly challenged. That happens on discussion boards, especially with controversial topics.


    In the end, the prophetess in Isaiah was his wife with her being called a prophetess by virtue of being his wife. Such also applies to the other references with the possible exception of Huldah that the Septuagint calls a son.
    You can say that, but ***ertions do not equal evidence. FYI, I've checked a couple of editions of the LXX, and they call Huldah (or "Olda") "wife" or "mother," not "son."


    Rational people can differ it would seem,
    Certainly. But "rational" people like to see actual "rationale" -- REASONS.


    but the patriarchal nature of society
    FYI, I dispute that "the patriarchal nature of society" is normative under the New Covenant.


    would go against your view of Women Pastors generally too boot. I won't argue this anymore.
    As you wish.

  6. #31
    Norrin Radd
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    Quote Originally Posted by jade84116 View Post
    The original Greek can also be rendered as Junias which, would make it a man's name.
    I know you've ***erted your intent to drop this discussion, but I choose not to leave this point unanswered.

    Scholars on "my side" of the debate aver that "Junia" (the feminine form) was in common usage in the NT period, while "Junias" (the masculine form) was totally unknown until years later. Hence, modern translations (ca. 1990s and beyond) and modern revisions of older translations usually employ "Junia" -- notably this includes the ESV, whose creators had in large part an agenda of opposing what they perceived to be trends toward excessive "gender-inclusiveness" in modern translations.

  7. #32
    jade84116
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    Post Correction

    I checked the Septuagint to verify what I was told about Huldah being a son not a wife. I was surprised to find that Huldah was the mother of Shallum in the Septuagint. That would mean that what I was told about Huldah being a son not a wife was wrong, she's a mother not a son or wife in the Septuagint. Humble apologies for p***ing along something without first verifying it. Does this obliterate my ***ertion that a wife of a Prophet, Apostle, or what have you can be called a Prophetess, Apostle, or what have you as well by virtue of being his wife though not in her own right? I don't think so, but rational people can differ.
    Last edited by jade84116; 04-14-2009 at 01:24 PM.

  8. #33
    denn034
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    Smile What Do You Think?????

    Is it possible that women became prophetesses, etc., as a result of no righteous man being available? What about special dispensation? There can be little doubt that the New Testament church didn't have any female ministers, Paul's "husband of one wife" requirement for Bishops and Deacons demands the view after all, so I need to know what you think about the above possibilities.

  9. #34
    archaeologist
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    i was going to go through this thread and respond to certain points but i felt i should do something different and that is what i will do.

    when it comes to God's word, humans were not put here to reign over the Bible. They do not get to determine what God's words say from generation to generation, culture to culture. if they think they can and do, then here are some of the that believers are saying by this act of supremacy of God's word:

    1. we do not have God's word
    2. we do not have the truth or words of guidance
    3. we get to determine what God is saying
    4. God's words and commands change from generation to generation and culture to culture
    5. we do not have a higher morality, standard, and God's word is subjective (existential)
    6. God changes

    God's word was given to us so that man would know what God wants him to do and it takes humility to submit to God's word and obey it. which means that we do not get to say that culture dictates what God meant for that promotes culture above God and allows humans to remove something they do not like and instill a cultural practice not of God in its place.

    that kind of thinking is arrogance, pride and elevating man over God. since God does not change, what He said through Paul, Peter and the other Biblical writers 2,000 years ago applies to today.

    it is up to us to submit to the Holy Spirit's leading, and let him lead us to the truth so we do not stray and disobey God and hinder the work of Christ.

    since the Bible does not allow woman preachers/overseer/pastor/ etc. and if one checks the biblical trdition, not one woman was placed in that role in the Old Testament nor in Jesus' time, then we cannot in the modern age, allow women to be preachers regardless of what the secular world says or does.

    the believer does not follow the secular world but God and it is dangerous and wrong to do otherwise. to follow the world would be abdicating our responsibility to beng the light unto the world and we will have diminished or darken that light so the lost cannot see the alternative and be lost forever.

    the idea of man having the right to change God's word to fit culture or the current age removes all hope found in its pages and says thatprevious believers did not have the truth because their culture followed something different. we also could not condemn sinful acts, declare something is sin for we have removed that authority from the christian life by saying that men are in command of the words of God andno tGod thus we have no clue what God wants.

    it is best for men to humble themsleves and obey scriptures, which means that women cannot be pastors, etc. and that they cannot teach men, if we compromise on any part of scripture, we have lost. we make our stand with Jesus inspite of the world's reaction. if we don't we have given the world the excuse they need to live as they want without fear.

  10. #35
    kentuckypreacher
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    Archeologist,
    I just now got around to reading this particular post, and it is excellent! You are exactly right.

  11. #36
    IncitingRiots
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    God doesn't change? Interesting, I for one saw a big change from the God of OT to the God of NT.

  12. #37
    Senior Member johnd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jade84116 View Post
    The original Greek can also be rendered as Junias which, would make it a man's name.
    Also the statement could be interpreted as having favor among the apostles like say Steven did... this did not make Stephen among the apostles but his favorship... if that's a word...

    I've argued this point (the OP) 6 ways from Sunday and in the enth degree in Greek.
    The Bible is its own best commentary.
    Prophecy is the word of God
    which sometimes speaks of future... sometimes of the present... sometimes of the past.
    A prophet is the tool God uses.
    It's not about the prophet, but about the God who uses the prophet to speak his word...

  13. #38
    alanmolstad
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    I cant remember a verse that teaches that Christians who live under the New Covenant are to ban women from this or that position within the church.
    The church is not to be thought of as being like a marriage where a man's role is not to be the women's.

    But in the church we have the suggestion that among ourselves there is to be seen no difference between rich and poor, male and female , slave or free....

  14. #39
    alanmolstad
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    what has happened to many churches that have been swept up in a pro-gayness slant is not to be blamed on some churches allowing women to lead.

    The fault is with the men who lead.

    I have seen a lot of churches in the past that have been in a lot of trouble for one reason or another, or who have strayed from teaching correctly, and in every case I know of you cant put the blame on women being allowed to lead a church body.

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