Smith's Flagrant Additions to God's Word

[Apologette]

Here is a passage from Genesis, Chapter 50, in the KJV

22 And Joseph dwelt in Egypt, he, and his father's house: and Joseph lived an hundred and ten years. 23 And Joseph saw Ephraim's children of the third generation: the children also of Machir the son of Manasseh were brought up upon Joseph's knees. 24 And Joseph said unto his brethren, I die: and God will surely visit you, and bring you out of this land unto the land which he sware to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob. 25 And Joseph took an oath of the children of Israel, saying, God will surely visit you, and ye shall carry up my bones from hence. 26 So Joseph died, being an hundred and ten years old: and they embalmed him, and he was put in a coffin in Egypt.

Now, here we have portions of Genesis, chapter 50, from the Joseph Smith Translation - in which he conveniently inserts a prophecy about himself:

Genesis 50:24–38
24 And Joseph said unto his brethren, I die, and go unto my fathers; and I go down to my grave with joy. The God of my father Jacob be with you, to deliver you out of affliction in the days of your bondage; for the Lord hath visited me, and I have obtained a promise of the Lord, that out of the fruit of my loins, the Lord God will raise up a righteous branch out of my loins; and unto thee, whom my father Jacob hath named Israel, a prophet; (not the Messiah who is called Shilo and this prophet shall deliver my people out of Egypt in the days of thy bondage.

25 And it shall come to pass that they shall be scattered again; and a branch shall be broken off, and shall be carried into a far country; nevertheless they shall be remembered in the covenants of the Lord, when the Messiah cometh; for he shall be made manifest unto them in the latter days, in the Spirit of power; and shall bring them out of darkness into light; out of hidden darkness, and out of captivity unto freedom.

26 A seer shall the Lord my God raise up, who shall be a choice seer unto the fruit of my loins.

27 Thus saith the Lord God of my fathers unto me, A choice seer will I raise up out of the fruit of thy loins, and he shall be esteemed highly among the fruit of thy loins; and unto him will I give commandment that he shall do a work for the fruit of thy loins, his brethren.

28 And he shall bring them to the knowledge of the covenants which I have made with thy fathers; and he shall do whatsoever work I shall command him.

29 And I will make him great in mine eyes, for he shall do my work; and he shall be great like unto him whom I have said I would raise up unto you, to deliver my people, O house of Israel, out of the land of Egypt; for a seer will I raise up to deliver my people out of the land of Egypt; and he shall be called Moses. And by this name he shall know that he is of thy house; for he shall be nursed by the king’s daughter, and shall be called her son.

30 And again, a seer will I raise up out of the fruit of thy loins, and unto him will I give power to bring forth my word unto the seed of thy loins; and not to the bringing forth of my word only, saith the Lord, but to the convincing them of my word, which shall have already gone forth among them in the last days;

31 Wherefore the fruit of thy loins shall write, and the fruit of the loins of Judah shall write; and that which shall be written by the fruit of thy loins, and also that which shall be written by the fruit of the loins of Judah, shall grow together unto the confounding of false doctrines, and laying down of contentions, and establishing peace among the fruit of thy loins, and bringing them to a knowledge of their fathers in the latter days; and also to the knowledge of my covenants, saith the Lord.

32 And out of weakness shall he be made strong, in that day when my work shall go forth among all my people, which shall restore them, who are of the house of Israel, in the last days.

33 And that seer will I bless, and they that seek to destroy him shall be confounded; for this promise I give unto you; for I will remember you from generation to generation; and his name shall be called Joseph, and it shall be after the name of his father; and he shall be like unto you; for the thing which the Lord shall bring forth by his hand shall bring my people unto salvation.

34 And the Lord sware unto Joseph that he would preserve his seed forever, saying, I will raise up Moses, and a rod shall be in his hand, and he shall gather together my people, and he shall lead them as a flock, and he shall smite the waters of the Red Sea with his rod.

35 And he shall have judgment, and shall write the word of the Lord. And he shall not speak many words, for I will write unto him my law by the finger of mine own hand. And I will make a spokesman for him, and his name shall be called Aaron.

36 And it shall be done unto thee in the last days also, even as I have sworn. Therefore, Joseph said unto his brethren, God will surely visit you, and bring you out of this land, unto the land which he sware unto Abraham, and unto Isaac, and to Jacob.

37 And Joseph confirmed many other things unto his brethren, and took an oath of the children of Israel, saying unto them, God will surely visit you, and ye shall carry up my bones from hence.

38 So Joseph died when he was an hundred and ten years old; and they embalmed him, and they put him in a coffin in Egypt; and he was kept from burial by the children of Israel, that he might be carried up and laid in the sepulchre with his father. And thus they remembered the oath which they sware unto him.

Now, that a big chunk of verses that Smitty added to the Bible - I'd like to know where the manscript evidence for this addition is. For instance, what do the Dead Sea Scrolls have to say about Genesis 50? Is it possible that Smitty would have had the audacity to simply make up verses that "prophesy" him? Gosh, he wouldn't do that, would he? Wasn't he a paragon of virtue? Or was he a liar?

[James Banta]

Here is a passage from Genesis, Chapter 50, in the KJV

22 And Joseph dwelt in Egypt, he, and his father's house: and Joseph lived an hundred and ten years. 23 And Joseph saw Ephraim's children of the third generation: the children also of Machir the son of Manasseh were brought up upon Joseph's knees. 24 And Joseph said unto his brethren, I die: and God will surely visit you, and bring you out of this land unto the land which he sware to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob. 25 And Joseph took an oath of the children of Israel, saying, God will surely visit you, and ye shall carry up my bones from hence. 26 So Joseph died, being an hundred and ten years old: and they embalmed him, and he was put in a coffin in Egypt.

Now, here we have portions of Genesis, chapter 50, from the Joseph Smith Translation - in which he conveniently inserts a prophecy about himself:

Genesis 50:24–38
24 And Joseph said unto his brethren, I die, and go unto my fathers; and I go down to my grave with joy. The God of my father Jacob be with you, to deliver you out of affliction in the days of your bondage; for the Lord hath visited me, and I have obtained a promise of the Lord, that out of the fruit of my loins, the Lord God will raise up a righteous branch out of my loins; and unto thee, whom my father Jacob hath named Israel, a prophet; (not the Messiah who is called Shilo and this prophet shall deliver my people out of Egypt in the days of thy bondage.

25 And it shall come to pass that they shall be scattered again; and a branch shall be broken off, and shall be carried into a far country; nevertheless they shall be remembered in the covenants of the Lord, when the Messiah cometh; for he shall be made manifest unto them in the latter days, in the Spirit of power; and shall bring them out of darkness into light; out of hidden darkness, and out of captivity unto freedom.

26 A seer shall the Lord my God raise up, who shall be a choice seer unto the fruit of my loins.

27 Thus saith the Lord God of my fathers unto me, A choice seer will I raise up out of the fruit of thy loins, and he shall be esteemed highly among the fruit of thy loins; and unto him will I give commandment that he shall do a work for the fruit of thy loins, his brethren.

28 And he shall bring them to the knowledge of the covenants which I have made with thy fathers; and he shall do whatsoever work I shall command him.

29 And I will make him great in mine eyes, for he shall do my work; and he shall be great like unto him whom I have said I would raise up unto you, to deliver my people, O house of Israel, out of the land of Egypt; for a seer will I raise up to deliver my people out of the land of Egypt; and he shall be called Moses. And by this name he shall know that he is of thy house; for he shall be nursed by the king’s daughter, and shall be called her son.

30 And again, a seer will I raise up out of the fruit of thy loins, and unto him will I give power to bring forth my word unto the seed of thy loins; and not to the bringing forth of my word only, saith the Lord, but to the convincing them of my word, which shall have already gone forth among them in the last days;

31 Wherefore the fruit of thy loins shall write, and the fruit of the loins of Judah shall write; and that which shall be written by the fruit of thy loins, and also that which shall be written by the fruit of the loins of Judah, shall grow together unto the confounding of false doctrines, and laying down of contentions, and establishing peace among the fruit of thy loins, and bringing them to a knowledge of their fathers in the latter days; and also to the knowledge of my covenants, saith the Lord.

32 And out of weakness shall he be made strong, in that day when my work shall go forth among all my people, which shall restore them, who are of the house of Israel, in the last days.

33 And that seer will I bless, and they that seek to destroy him shall be confounded; for this promise I give unto you; for I will remember you from generation to generation; and his name shall be called Joseph, and it shall be after the name of his father; and he shall be like unto you; for the thing which the Lord shall bring forth by his hand shall bring my people unto salvation.

34 And the Lord sware unto Joseph that he would preserve his seed forever, saying, I will raise up Moses, and a rod shall be in his hand, and he shall gather together my people, and he shall lead them as a flock, and he shall smite the waters of the Red Sea with his rod.

35 And he shall have judgment, and shall write the word of the Lord. And he shall not speak many words, for I will write unto him my law by the finger of mine own hand. And I will make a spokesman for him, and his name shall be called Aaron.

36 And it shall be done unto thee in the last days also, even as I have sworn. Therefore, Joseph said unto his brethren, God will surely visit you, and bring you out of this land, unto the land which he sware unto Abraham, and unto Isaac, and to Jacob.

37 And Joseph confirmed many other things unto his brethren, and took an oath of the children of Israel, saying unto them, God will surely visit you, and ye shall carry up my bones from hence.

38 So Joseph died when he was an hundred and ten years old; and they embalmed him, and they put him in a coffin in Egypt; and he was kept from burial by the children of Israel, that he might be carried up and laid in the sepulchre with his father. And thus they remembered the oath which they sware unto him.

Now, that a big chunk of verses that Smitty added to the Bible - I'd like to know where the manscript evidence for this addition is. For instance, what do the Dead Sea Scrolls have to say about Genesis 50? Is it possible that Smitty would have had the audacity to simply make up verses that "prophesy" him? Gosh, he wouldn't do that, would he? Wasn't he a paragon of virtue? Or was he a liar?

This evidence is so damning that the LDS will not even say a word about it.. It is so testimony destructive that it must be completely ignored.. IHS jim

[Sir]

This evidence is so damning that the LDS will not even say a word about it.. It is so testimony destructive that it must be completely ignored.. IHS jim

Or....

Since some LDS over at CARM responded to it, your attempt to make this false conclusion falls flat.

And it is also possible that LDS have apologette on ignore, since that seems to be the thing to do (we learned that from you guys)

[Billyray]

ESV Study Bible

". . .Rev. 22:18–21 Prohibition of Altering the Book, Promise that Jesus Is Coming Soon, and Final Pronouncement of Blessing. I warn is the same verb as testifies in v. 20. Jesus bears witness that no mere human may add to or take away from God’s words without incurring the plagues described in this book and forfeiting its blessings. Moses had warned against adding to or subtracting from the Lord’s commands (Deut. 4:2; 12:32). A prophet who spoke without God’s authorization deserved death (Deut. 18:20–22). . ."


Did Joseph deserve death by altering God's word?

[James Banta]

Or....

Since some LDS over at CARM responded to it, your attempt to make this false conclusion falls flat.

And it is also possible that LDS have apologette on ignore, since that seems to be the thing to do (we learned that from you guys)

Nice way of ignoring the subject of the thread.. It doesn't matter that you address me. What is so telling is that you ignore the OP.. What authority did Smith have to add so much to the Bible especially this passage he added in Gen 50? IHS jim

[Apologette]

ESV Study Bible

". . .Rev. 22:18–21 Prohibition of Altering the Book, Promise that Jesus Is Coming Soon, and Final Pronouncement of Blessing. I warn is the same verb as testifies in v. 20. Jesus bears witness that no mere human may add to or take away from God’s words without incurring the plagues described in this book and forfeiting its blessings. Moses had warned against adding to or subtracting from the Lord’s commands (Deut. 4:2; 12:32). A prophet who spoke without God’s authorization deserved death (Deut. 18:20–22). . ."


Did Joseph deserve death by altering God's word?

Apparently so. He received the outcome of that sentence, did he not?

[Billyray]

Apparently so. He received the outcome of that sentence, did he not?

He certainly did.

[Billyray]

ESV Study Bible

". . .Rev. 22:18–21 Prohibition of Altering the Book, Promise that Jesus Is Coming Soon, and Final Pronouncement of Blessing. I warn is the same verb as testifies in v. 20. Jesus bears witness that no mere human may add to or take away from God’s words without incurring the plagues described in this book and forfeiting its blessings. Moses had warned against adding to or subtracting from the Lord’s commands (Deut. 4:2; 12:32). A prophet who spoke without God’s authorization deserved death (Deut. 18:20–22). . ."


Did Joseph deserve death by altering God's word?

Bump for LDS response.

[Pa Pa]

Here is a passage from Genesis, Chapter 50, in the KJV

How is this different from scribes having done so for 1,000's of years? KJV, NKJV, NIV, NASB, etc.

[jdjhere]

PaPa- show me ONE PLACE where scribes put in ANYTHING this large and about THEMSELVES. I will wait. Thanks.

[John T]

How is this different from scribes having done so for 1,000's of years? KJV, NKJV, NIV, NASB, etc.

PaPa- show me ONE PLACE where scribes put in ANYTHING this large and about THEMSELVES. I will wait. Thanks.

You will not get a straight answer from that poster because he is adept in troll-like posts.

You have to remember that this is the same poster who, in order to "score some points for the LDS side" thought nothing about trying to destroy a marriage by cruely and savagely brought up the sordid details here in a public forum.

Within the last 60 days, or so I gave him an opportunity to repent of his wrong-doing. His reply was that he did nothing wrong because it was posted, and it was OK to vomit it back up on a public forum. He also refused to apologize.

Such behavior is despicable, inexcusable and satanically inspired. That is why I refuse to address him. I hope that other Christians feel the same way.

Of course, if he repents of his evil, and seeks forgiveness from those whom he wanted to hurt ...

[James Banta]

PaPa- show me ONE PLACE where scribes put in ANYTHING this large and about THEMSELVES. I will wait. Thanks.

All the scholarly translations are true in their meaning to the original text. Of course the wording is different. There are many English words that can convey the same meaning as what the translators find in the original languages. All of them were prayerfully translated with all efforts to stay as true to the original meaning as possible. This can't be said for the Joseph Smith Perversion. A non-translation the LDS call "Inspired". There is not one word in any of the available manuscripts of the original language that supports this out and out perversion of the scripture. It can be said that the JSP is accurate only as far as it is copied directly form the KJV of the Bible.. IHS jim

[theway]

This evidence is so damning that the LDS will not even say a word about it.. It is so testimony destructive that it must be completely ignored.. IHS jim

No... We've just been through this already.
The conclusion reached was... So what???

If you believe the LDS are already going to Hell, then what is adding to His word going to do? Send us to "double secret probation" Hell?

If you believe that God does it all, and we are simply waiting for Him to save us, then added to His word is not going to change anything anyway.

And if you believe that we must do some work first like; stop adding to His word. Then once we get saved we will be free to add to His word without fear of losing our salvation.

So any way you look at it, your theology allows for us to add to His Word, without any repercussions at all.

[Billyray]

If you believe that God does it all, and we are simply waiting for Him to save us, then added to His word is not going to change anything anyway.

And if you believe that we must do some work first like; stop adding to His word. Then once we get saved we will be free to add to His word without fear of losing our salvation.

It is your choice to place your faith in the true God of the Bible or your false gods. God is not forcing you to believe in Joseph Smith and his strange gods, you are making that choice. Why don't you leave the false gods of Mormonism for the true God of the Bible? What is stopping you?

[theway]

It is your choice to place your faith in the true God of the Bible or your false gods. God is not forcing you to believe in Joseph Smith and his strange gods, you are making that choice. Why don't you leave the false gods of Mormonism for the true God of the Bible? What is stopping you?

Here is why nobody takes what is said on these forums very serious.

You have half the people saying God does it all, and nothing we do either aids or takes away from it.
And the other half saying our salvation is up to us, and determined by the works we do.
And then there are some like you, who try to argue both sides are true at the same time.

Be hot or cold Billy, God doesn't like it when you are lukewarm.

[Billyray]

Here is why nobody takes what is said on these forums very serious.

Because you are not truly seeking God you are here for fun as you have said in the past and to try and prop up your false religion. God has said that those who truly seek him will find him. The fact that you haven't found him means that you have not truly sought after him. Unless this changes things won't be good for you in the end.

[Billyray]

You have half the people saying God does it all, and nothing we do either aids or takes away from it.

All Christians here on this board would agree that you need to leave your false gods and false gospel and turn to the true God of the Bible and place your faith in him. But I know you too well, you aren't interested in doing that you are in love with your false gods.

[theway]

All Christians here on this board would agree that you need to leave your false gods and false gospel and turn to the true God of the Bible and place your faith in him. But I know you too well, you aren't interested in doing that you are in love with your false gods.

No they do not.
Either God does it all, or He does not.
Either it's "Faith Alone" or works are involved.

Like I said, you simply want to argue for both sides.
Pick a side Billy, I already have.

[Billyray]

No they do not.

All Christians here on this board would agree that you need to leave your false gods and false gospel and turn to the true God of the Bible and place your faith in him.

Ask and see if they don't all agree with my statement.

[theway]

All Christians here on this board would agree that you need to leave your false gods and false gospel and turn to the true God of the Bible and place your faith in him.

Ask and see if they don't all agree with my statement.

Before or after I am saved?

[Billyray]

Before or after I am saved?

You aren't saved.

Ask and see if they don't all agree with my statement.

[theway]

You aren't saved.

Ask and see if they don't all agree with my statement.

Will I have to give up my false Gods before or after I am saved?


Or is this merely the word play segment of your merry-go-round?

[Billyray]

Or is this merely the word play segment of your merry-go-round?

I think what I have said is pretty simple to understand.

All Christians here on this board would agree that you need to leave your false gods and false gospel and turn to the true God of the Bible and place your faith in him.

[theway]

I think what I have said is pretty simple to understand.

All Christians here on this board would agree that you need to leave your false gods and false gospel and turn to the true God of the Bible and place your faith in him.

Yeah... notice how you never answered the question I asked. It seems I was right then, and this is the word-play segment of your merry-go-round... But I'll try again.

Will I have to give up my false Gods "before" or "after" I am saved?

[Billyray]

Yeah... notice how you never answered the question I asked. It seems I was right then, and this is the word-play segment of your merry-go-round... But I'll try again.

Will I have to give up my false Gods "before" or "after" I am saved?

What part of my statement don't you understand?