Which is what exactly?Originally Posted by dberrie2000
Which is what exactly?
Yes.
I have a car with an engine.
Is the car and the engine separated here?
Yes.
Are they integral components one to another?
Yes.
It doesn't matter if you see works as an integral part of salvation or not the verse is clear it is NOT OF WORKS SO THAT NO ONE CAN BOAST.. It is all about faith in Jesus and not what you do, OR EVEN CAN DO, PERIOD! IHS jim
Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
Psalm 119:105
Faith is distinct from works in Ephesians 2 so you can't assume that Faith = Faith + Works.
Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
Yes.
I have a car with an engine.
Is the car and the engine separated here?
Yes.
Are they integral components one to another?
Yes.
dberrie---It's not of faith either--but of grace.
And I did not claim that works were an integral part of salvation--but an integral part of faith.
They have to both be joined together to prevent dead faith.
James2:26--"For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."
Billyray----So faith is not required for salvation is that what you are saying?
Nope. Just that faith is not what saves one--and neither works. Only that if faith is required for salvation--then works also, as faith without works is dead.
Last edited by dberrie2000; 07-18-2012 at 03:55 AM.
The Holy Spirit through Paul divides works and grace..
Romans 11:6
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
So when The word of God tells us that salvation is by grace trough faith and NOT od works works is shown to be something outside of faith.. Yes true living faith is usually manifest by the performance of good works those works being mentioned in James 2.(of which living the commandments is included yet the commandment to be baptized is strangle absent). Still even James tells us that the Good woks we do allows other believers to see our faith. Time and again in James 2 Faith in mentioned as a partner of works never is is the reason salvation come to a person.. The Bible is clear that only those who believe become the children of God (John 1:12-13, John 3:16, 1 John 5:13). Look at the list of works James lists in chapter 2 again and see that Faith in preeminent and that everything else we do is an indication of saving faith.. I like James turn to the Church and see her works and know that She loves Her Lord. She is aiding the poor in building homes, clothing them, educating them. Over the last 10 years the Methodist church has put over 20% of their total income into charitable work. The LDS for that same time frame has committed less than 1% (Bloomberg Businessweek reported by Caroline Winter on July 10, 2012 )..
The works of mormonism are weak, therefore their faith is also weak.. Is that fair? As a Christian I say No. I hear the doctrines you base your faith on and I can see just how unbiblical it is. Your works matter as much as those of the Bill Gates Foundation.. The are all done for self exaltation and not to exalt the Lord. In that they have no power at all.. .7% of the income of the LDS won't be missed anyway.. The LDS should back off of claiming works salvation.. It just can't be found in mormonism.. IHS jim
Last edited by James Banta; 07-15-2012 at 03:05 PM.
Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
Psalm 119:105
So faith is not required for salvation is that what you are saying?
Nope. Just that faith is not what saves one--and neither works. Only that if faith is required for salvation--then works also, as faith without works is dead.
Mormons believe that both faith and works are required for salvation. Your works contribute for exaltation. Bottom line you work your way to heaven.
Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
Yes.
I have a car with an engine.
Is the car and the engine separated here?
Yes.
Are they integral components one to another?
Yes.
And not of faith either. All will be saved but by one thing--grace. But how does that nullify the fact that works are an integral component of faith--or that faith and works are a parts of the salvational process?
So does the Biblical text:
James2:26--"For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."
What does the Bble say is the requirement for salvation?
Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
So does the Biblical text:
James2:26--"For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."
Hebrews5:9--"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;"
Matthew10:22--"And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved."
If you insist that we must OBEY the commandments in order to be saved we are all damned without any hope.. But id obeying Him means what the Apostles through the holy Spirit have taught us then to obey Him is to Love and Believe. That is to conform to the Law of liberty as he works within us in the process of our sanctification then you would have Biblical footing for your doctrine.. As you state it you can NEVER BE SAVED because you continually break the commands of Jesus..
Obeying Him must be to Love Him and our fellow men and believe that He is God as he insisted he is or we are all lost.. There is no hope is what you believe nor in what mormonism teaches.. IHS jim
Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
Psalm 119:105
Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post---Hebrews5:9--"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;"
Matthew10:22--"And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved."
John was not quite so pessimistic as you are:
1 John3:22-24--"And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us."
DB since even you admit that none of us keep the commandments what is the standard for eternal life?
Stated another way since obedience to the commandments is not required what must a person do for eternal life?
Originally Posted by James Banta View Post
If you insist that we must OBEY the commandments in order to be saved we are all damned without any hope.dberrie---John was not quite so pessimistic as you are:
1 John3:22-24--"And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us."What is it about John's testimony you do not believe? :
I believe John's testimony.
John 3
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
Now perhaps you can answer my question. DB since even you admit that none of us keep the commandments what is the standard for eternal life?
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