God as Spirit or flesh and bone

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

But the scriptures state that Christ possessed flesh and bone in His deity:


Luke 24:39---King James Version (KJV)


39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

You do agree that God the Father does not possess this attribute--right?

No...the Bible tells us at John 1 that the Word was with God, the Word was God...
So at that point of the story the Word did not have a human nature nor body.

then later in John the Bible tells us that the "Word became flesh" and was made man....NOW here at this point the Word was given a 2nd nature.

at that point in our history the word became flesh.


So to review.
The Word was, is now, and will always be, "spirit" as we see in the first part of John1.

But the Word became flesh.
So the word that is always spirit, was made man who is flesh.

Thus the flesh is only dealing with the "HUMAN NATURE" of Jesus.

but in his divine nature Jesus is always pure spirit as is the father pure spirit.



Remember Jesus has 2 natures
one like the father is all ways
the other like man in all ways


So when Jesus said that a spirit does not have flesh and bone, he was pointing out his "HUMANITY"!!!!!



this means that because the father does not have a Human nature, that the father does not have a body of flesh and bone.


This is the 2nd nature that Christ has that the father does not have.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post---But the scriptures state that Christ possessed flesh and bone in His deity:

Luke 24:39---King James Version (KJV)


39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

You do agree that God the Father does not possess this attribute--right?

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

No...the Bible tells us at John 1 that the Word was with God, the Word was God...
So at that point of the story the Word did not have a human nature nor body

But He does now--and He does in His deity. Are you attempting to make the point Christ was only deity before His resurrection or mortal existence?

Alan--Christ was resurrected deity when He showed Himself to His disciples as a resurrected man of flesh and bone.

The Trinitarians claim is that God the Father does not share this substance with His Son--right?

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

But He does now--and He does in His deity. Are you attempting to make the point Christ was only deity before His resurrection or mortal existence?

Alan--Christ was resurrected deity when He showed Himself to His disciples as a resurrected man of flesh and bone.

The Trinitarians claim is that God the Father does not share this substance with His Son--right?

Why would you think that? The Eternal Father shares all the experiences of Jesus? Or that Jesus doesn't share all with the Father After all they are the one true and living God.. It is your false impressions of God's nature that makes you separate them.. IHS jim

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Why would you think that? The Eternal Father shares all the experiences of Jesus? Or that Jesus doesn't share all with the Father After all they are the one true and living God.. It is your false impressions of God's nature that makes you separate them.. IHS jim

Are you stating that God the Father has a body of flesh and bones also?

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Are you stating that God the Father has a body of flesh and bones also?

Only in and through Jesus and Jesus remains 100% Spirit through the Father.. They are one God not two separate and distinct Gods.. IHS jim

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Are you stating that God the Father has a body of flesh and bones also?

No, The Father does not have a human nature.

The Father's substance of his deity is the same as the Son.

But only the Son is 100% human.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

But He does now--and He does in His deity. Are you attempting to make the point Christ was only deity before His resurrection or mortal existence?

......

I dont think you understand the Trinity.

let me explain it here.

Jesus is the Lord God Almighty.
Jesus is always pure spirit.
Jesus became flesh, yet always remained pure spirit.

Jesus is pure spirit wrapped in flesh.

Thus the father and the Son are one in substance.
But the Son also has a 2nd nature that is human too!

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Alan--Christ was resurrected deity ....

No,
Rather the humanity of Jesus died, but the Deity of Jesus can never die.

Thus the resurrection of Christ is not of his deity but is of his humanity.


Remember Jesus has to natures, he is both God and man.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

The Trinitarians claim is that God the Father does not share this substance with His Son--right?

well there is a historical debate within the church at the terms used...

At some churches they use the phrase, "Being of LIKE substance..."

Other churches use the phrase "Being of the same substance as the father"


However when you dig into what they claim as the big difference you find yourself splitting hairs.

I just say "same" and leave it at that.

[alanmolstad]

ask more....I enjoy answering questions on this stuff....

[dberrie2000]

dberrie---Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
Are you stating that God the Father has a body of flesh and bones also?

Originally Posted by James Banta

Only in and through Jesus

So--you believe God the Father does indeed possess flesh and bone?

and Jesus remains 100% Spirit through the Father..

Are you saying that "Jesus remains 100% Spirit through the Father.. " means that He is not also flesh and bone also? Or that Jesus and the Father are both?

Luke 24:39---King James Version (KJV)


39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

well there is a historical debate within the church at the terms used...

At some churches they use the phrase, "Being of LIKE substance..."

Other churches use the phrase "Being of the same substance as the father"

What substance do you believe the Father possesses that is like this substance:

Luke 24:39---King James Version (KJV)


39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

However when you dig into what they claim as the big difference you find yourself splitting hairs.

I just say "same" and leave it at that.

Not at all--if you believe that their substance is the same--then how do you explain the faith alone belief that God the Son possesses a body of flesh and bone--and the Father does not?

So--does God possess a body of flesh and bone--or Jesus only?

You see the problem you face? It questions the validity of the faith alone's theology of the Trinity itself.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

What substance do you believe the Father possesses that is like this substance:

.....

Spirit....the substance is spirit

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

l--if you believe that their substance is the same--then how do you explain the faith alone belief that God the Son possesses a body of flesh and bone--and the Father does not?

.

The Word became flesh....

The Father did not become flesh, but the Word did.

So the Son and the Father have the same substance in their deity, (Spirit) but the Son has a 2nd nature that is human. (Flesh)

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

So--does God possess a body of flesh and bone--or Jesus only?

The Bible says that Only the Word became flesh.

So that means that Jesus is fully human, but not the father nor the HS.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

.

You see the problem you face? It questions the validity of the faith alone's theology of the Trinity itself.

There is no problem here at all.

Jesus is human, so he has a human body.
The father is not human, so he does not have a body...


But in their nature as God both the Father and the Son are of the same substance, for their substance as God is Spirit.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

There is no problem here at all.

Jesus is human, so he has a human body.
The father is not human, so he does not have a body...

If that is true--then you have the Father and the Son with differing substances--period.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

If that is true--then you have the Father and the Son with differing substances--period.

That would be true if Jesus were only human but as He is 100% human He is also 100% God.. There is One God not three. No God, even if you believe that Isaiah 43:10 means "only for this world", was ever formed before the God speaking on this p***age, and there will never be one formed in the future.. One God, the Father is called God, Jesus is called God, and the Holy Spirit is called God. Unless two of them are liars then these three Persons are the one true God.. That is a part of scripture that LDS Doctrine can't deal with in their doctrine of God's nature.. Because it differs so completely with what the Bible teaches even to the point of it's founder teaching that there are three Gods and no one could contradict it. That teachings makes mormonism a pagan religion with no connection to God's truth, No connection to the Jesus who said that He is the YHWH.. IHS jim

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
There is no problem here at all.

Jesus is human, so he has a human body.
The father is not human, so he does not have a body...

Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
If that is true--then you have the Father and the Son with differing substances--period.

Originally Posted by James Banta

That would be true if Jesus were only human but as He is 100% human He is also 100% God.. There is One God not three.

Then that would only raise the question--is God 100% human--or not? Does God have a body of flesh and bone?

You do understand--you can only separate that substance at the individual level--God the Father verses God the Son, as to the flesh and bone question. You can have them as two different substances. But there is only one God in the Trinitarian belief--does that one God have a body of flesh and bone?

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

If that is true--then you have the Father and the Son with differing substances--period.

No, they are of the same substance in their deity.

But the Son has a 2nd nature, the Son is human where the father is not.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
If that is true--then you have the Father and the Son with differing substances--period.

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

No, they are of the same substance in their deity.

But the Son has a 2nd nature, the Son is human where the father is not.

So--are you saying that the Son's flesh and bone is not part of His deity? If the Father is different in that He does not possess this second nature--flesh and bone--are you saying that the Son has a substance the Father does not have?

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

So--are you saying that the Son's flesh and bone is not part of His deity?

At Last!you have landed on the core truth of the Christian church!

The Word became flesh.
The Son of God is 100% human and 100% God.

Of the same substance with the Father in his deity

Of the same substance as man in his......."HUMANITY!"


So the human body of Christ is from his Humanity, not his deity.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

..... If the Father is different in that He does not possess this second nature--flesh and bone--are you saying that the Son has a substance the Father does not have?

YES!

As we learn in John1:1
The Word BECAME flesh.

The Father did not become flesh
The HS did not become flesh.
Only the Word became flesh.


So the Son is of the same substance as the father in his Deity, but also has a 2nd nature that the Father does not have.


So the Son is of the same substance as the Father!
And, the Son is also totally human, so he has a normal human body....although right now it is a resurrected body, yet it is still human.


The Father did not become flesh in John 1:1, and so that is why the father does not have a body of flesh.



So this is why Jesus said "A spirit does not have flesh and bone as you see i have"
The Father is spirit, therefore the father does not have a body of flesh and bone.

What Jesus was pointing out is his "HUMANITY!"
It is the humanity of Jesus that has a body of flesh, not his Deity.

Jesus is always God Almighty, so Jesus is always pure Spirit, but Jesus became flesh and so he also has a human body.

He is always still spirit, but he pointed out that a spirit does not have flesh and bone, so he was pointing to his Humanity, not his deity.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

At Last!

The Word became flesh.
The Son of God is 100% human and 100% God.

Of the same substance with the Father in his deity

Of the same substance as man in his......."HUMANITY!"


So the human body of Christ is from his Humanity, not his deity.

What is it about Christ's flesh and bone do you not consider as part of His deity?



Luke 24:39---King James Version (KJV)


39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

If Christ still possesses this flesh and bone--then it is an eternal part of His makeup. If God the Father does not possess flesh and bone, then God the Son is not ****ousious with the Father.

Again--is God a Spirit--or flesh and bone--or both?

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

What is it about Christ's flesh and bone do you not consider as part of His deity?

All of it!...

The humanity of Jesus is of the flesh.
The deity of Jesus is of the spirit.

When Jesus said that a spirit does not have flesh he was teaching what Im saying.

The deity of Jesus is spirit, the humanity of Jesus is flesh.

Jesus has the same substance as the father in his deity,. and the same human nature as men.

So Jesus is both God and man.
This is what John 1;1 is teaching what it says that the "Word became flesh"

At no place in the whole bible does it say the father became flesh, nor the HS>

But at John 1 it is very clear in teaching that only the Word became flesh.

So Jesus has the same substance as the Father in his deity.