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Thread: God as Spirit or flesh and bone

  1. #351
    Libby
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    Reading a little bit on this thread and this is an area where I have come to agree with Orthodox Christianity.

    The Bible does say that God is Spirit and I do believe encasing him in a human body (even an exalted body) is to diminish the greatness..the vastness, the immensity of who He truly is..

    That doesn't mean He cannot show himself, at times, in a "physical" way, like the burning bush..or even with human characteristics (like Christ), but I don't think any of that is His permanent state of being.

  2. #352
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    He was different. Unique--as to the mortal physical body.
    Nope......totally wrong by the way and missed the whole point of being born a 'man"

    The bible is very clear that Jesus was made "man".....not "almost human"....

    Not "almost a man"

    Not "human-looking".......


    None of that junk....

    The Bible teaches us very clearly that Jesus was born of Mary and is a "man"

    1 Timothy 2:5 - "For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus"

  3. #353
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    Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post---He was different. Unique--as to the mortal physical body.
    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    Nope......totally wrong by the way and missed the whole point of being born a 'man"

    The bible is very clear that Jesus was made "man".....not "almost human"....

    Not "almost a man"

    Not "human-looking".......


    None of that junk....

    What is it about "The Only Begotten Son" you do not consider unique?

    Could you explain for us what mortal man here on this earth ever had an earthly mother and a Heavenly Father?

    The Bible teaches us very clearly that Jesus was born of Mary and is a "man"
    Correct. A unique man. The Only Begotten Son. The only man ever born to this earth with a Heavenly Father and an earthly mother.

  4. #354
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    What is it about "The Only Begotten Son"
    The term "only begotton" refers to the special relationship the father has with the son....
    It's the bond...the special love between them...

    This is why the Bible talks about a person being the "only begotten son" when that same son was not the first born son actually....there was a different son that was the first person born , but when you say that someone is the "only begotten" you are pointing to the special relationship you have with that person..

    So this has nothing to do with biology, nothing to do with birth order, but has everything to do with a type of loving relationship you have with the person.

    Now, while Jesus is the "only begotten" he is still fully human.

    remember, there is not one line in the Bible that even slightly HINTS that Jesus was not a man......not 100% full human!!!!



    So Jesus has to be 100% fully human as I am, or else I can not trust that the resurrection of Christ means i too can be resurrected.


    But because I know that Jesus was fully a 'man'.....was fully a mortal human just as i am in every way, then i can look at his resurrection as a guide to my own future resurrection....

    This is why the bible is so clear that Jesus is a "man"

    Not a "man-like" creature....

    not a "man-looking" person

    not a Man/angel cross bread.....

    But just a fully,normal, guy......just like me.


    The resurrection of Jesus gives me the faith that just as God raised the fully human Body of Christ from the dead, he will be able in the same way to call my dead body from the grave....


    AMEN!

  5. #355
    alanmolstad
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    So before Jesus was wrapped in human flesh, he was still eternal god as is the father....

    Jesus was known as the "WORD" in the book of John, and the WORD is eternally God ....

    So Jesus was is and will always be god almighty...but 2000 years ago wrapped himself in human flesh and was born a 100% fully Human!

    Still eternal God, without beginning , without ending,,,,
    But so that he could die as a man, he was wrapped in the body of men....and was and is and will always be, fully 100% human!

  6. #356
    nrajeffreturns
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    Now, while Jesus is the "only begotten" he is still fully human.
    remember, there is not one line in the Bible that even slightly HINTS that Jesus was not a man......not 100% full human!!!!
    So Jesus has to be 100% fully human as I am, or else I can not trust that the resurrection of Christ means i too can be resurrected.
    But because I know that Jesus was fully a 'man'.....was fully a mortal human just as i am in every way, then i can look at his resurrection as a guide to my own future resurrection....

    This is why the bible is so clear that Jesus is a "man"

    Not a "man-like" creature....

    not a "man-looking" person

    not a Man/angel cross bread.....

    But just a fully,normal, guy......just like me.
    AMEN!

    But when an LDS leader said that God was once like us, some contra-LDS people yelled "He said that God was a SINNER, because if God was just like us, and we are sinners, then it has to mean that God was a sinner."

    I am willing to not jump to such unwarranted conclusions in the case of your statement, however. I prefer to ***ume that you mean that Jesus was just like you as far as having a human body was concerned....not that He was just like you in every way including being a sinner.

  7. #357
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns View Post
    But when an LDS leader said that God was once like us, some contra-LDS people yelled "He said that God was a SINNER, because if God was just like us, and we are sinners, then it has to mean that God was a sinner."
    Then God was not really like us then Jeff was he?

    "As man is God once was, as God is man may be."

    And you can't expect to be like God if you reject the first part of the couplet.

  8. #358
    nrajeffreturns
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    Then God was not really like us then Jeff was he?
    Then according to your argument, Jesus was not really like Alan Molstad, was He?

    So what are ya gonna do with Alan's definite statement that Jesus is "just a fully,normal, guy......just like me." ???

  9. #359
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns View Post
    Then according to your argument, Jesus was not really like Alan Molstad, was He?
    Other than in a superficial ways we as people are in no way like God/Jesus. Rather we are his creation and he is our creator.

  10. #360
    Libby
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    Other than in a superficial ways we as people are in no way like God/Jesus. Rather we are his creation and he is our creator.
    Our spiritual likenesses are more than "superficial". God made us in his image, which I believe means his spiritual image. We share many of his attributes....love, a sense of justice, creativity, a general knowledge of right and wrong, etc. If we allow him into our lives, allow him to live in us and to sanctify us, he will begin to perfect those natural attributes.

  11. #361
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libby View Post
    Our spiritual likenesses are more than "superficial". God made us in his image, which I believe means his spiritual image. We share many of his attributes....love, a sense of justice, creativity, a general knowledge of right and wrong, etc. If we allow him into our lives, allow him to live in us and to sanctify us, he will begin to perfect those natural attributes.
    Would you say that you are just like God?

  12. #362
    Libby
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    Would you say that you are just like God?
    No. Far from it.

  13. #363
    nrajeffreturns
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    Would you say that you are just like God?
    Would Alan say that he is just like Jesus?

  14. #364
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libby View Post
    No. Far from it.
    What a blasphemous statement. No Christian that I know would ever make such a statement.

  15. #365
    Libby
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    What a blasphemous statement. No Christian that I know would ever make such a statement.
    Really?

    Okay, then, Billy...we are EXACTLY like God.

    I know if I had said THAT, you would also be screaming "blasphemy".

    You're like some angry little kid who is just looking to punch something (namely me).

  16. #366
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns View Post
    Would Alan say that he is just like Jesus?
    well.....as far as my humanity?...yes!,


    Im 100% HUMAN.....
    Jesus is 100% human....

    The Resurrection of Christ was a normal resurrection of a normal human body...that's why I known and have faith that i too will be raised from the dead..

    If the body of Christ was different in nature than my own I could not be 100% sure his resurrection was at all relevant to my own....

  17. #367
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns View Post
    Then according to your argument, Jesus was not really like Alan Molstad, was He?

    So what are ya gonna do with Alan's definite statement that Jesus is "just a fully,normal, guy......just like me." ???
    in his humanity Jesus was just a normal guy....just like me....thats why i can be his true human "brother"

    But in his other nature, the nature of Divine?...oh, then Jesus was equal to the father and the HS alone....and that why Jesus is the only mediator between God and man....being Both...

    Jesus is one person with two totally different natures.

  18. #368
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns View Post
    But when an LDS leader said that God was once like us, some contra-LDS people yelled "He said that God was a SINNER,
    the first I heard about the Mormon god being a sinner was when a link was posted on another forum to a Mormon's website where a Mormon believer came out with this idea and was attempting to show other Mormons that this is not a teaching they need to be afraid of....


    as far as I know, thats the only place where someone has come up with this teaching...

  19. #369
    nrajeffreturns
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    well.....as far as my humanity?...yes!,
    I agree. Good answer.

    Im 100% HUMAN.....
    Jesus is 100% human....
    Yes indeed.

    And that is all Joseph Smith and Lorenzo Snow meant when they said that God was once like us.
    Now, you may have to convince Billy of the truth of your belief about you and Jesus. But I am with you.

  20. #370
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libby View Post
    Really?

    Okay, then, Billy...we are EXACTLY like God.

    I know if I had said THAT, you would also be screaming "blasphemy".

    You're like some angry little kid who is just looking to punch something (namely me).
    Libby your ignore scripture, you throw out sections of the Bible that you don't like, you refuse to support your opinions with scripture. And you call yourself Christian. Why should anyone believe you?

  21. #371
    Libby
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    That's simply not true, Billy. I haven't thrown anything out...and I've very capable of supporting what I believe with scripture.

    But, since I am in repentance mode, I do admit that I gave that impression a few months back.

    Have I had questions and doubts? Yes. But, I am working my way through those problem areas with my Pastor. I never lost my faith in Christ...which is the only reason this was even possible.

    Now, I am sorting out some of the heavier issues that I had with Calvinism. I'm not sure where that will take me.....it "might" take me right back to where I started....I don't know. But, at least, I am back within, what I consider, biblical belief/territory.

    You can either make this more difficult for me...or try to encourage and help. It's up to you. So far you seem to be choosing to make it difficult.

  22. #372
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libby View Post
    That's simply not true, Billy. I haven't thrown anything out...and I've very capable of supporting what I believe with scripture.
    You believe that babies do not sin go ahead and give me some verses that support this position.

  23. #373
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libby View Post
    Now, I am sorting out some of the heavier issues that I had with Calvinism. .
    Why not go to an Arminian church--that seems simple enough.

  24. #374
    Libby
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    Why not go to an Arminian church--that seems simple enough.
    Yes, that is possible, at some point. Right now, my husband is very attached to this Reformed Church. The Pastor there has been very helpful to both of us, so I am reluctant to change, right now, even though my beliefs do not line up perfectly. But, there is really not a lot of constant emphasis on those problem areas, and I have actually grown in faith, in this church. The Pastor's sermons are very Christ centered....and he is very kind. It's really okay, for now.

  25. #375
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libby View Post
    Yes, that is possible, at some point. Right now, my husband is very attached to this Reformed Church.
    But you are having such a hard time with it that it seems like you are drifting further from God rather than closer. I am sure that there is a church that you and your husband can find that is more neutral, at least until you get through some of the issues that you are having and you could always go back. Bottom line is that in practical terms there is not a lot of differences between the two if you sit down and look at it. And that is why I don't mind talking about it because after all is said and done we basically come to the same conclusion. For example a person is either elect or not before he is even born and you can't change that. This is believed by both sides. Look at the atonement issue the atonement is applied only to the elect. This is also believed by both sides. Look at salvation, both believe that we are saved by grace through faith and not by works. Here is another issue--one belief says that you can loose your salvation and the other says that those who fall away were never saved in the first place but the result is still the same in that both would agree that the person is not saved.

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