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Thread: God as Spirit or flesh and bone

  1. #51
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    Are you saying that God has a resurrected body?
    God the Father does not have a resurrected body, God the Son has a resurrected body.

  2. #52
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post

    note to lurkers: Billyray nor anyone else here that is faith alone is going to answer this question--for obvious reasons. Diversion is all one will get here.
    Note to lurkers I have already answered this questions multiple times but DB is in his circling mode and gets like this by asking the same question of a variatiion over and over again. Seems to be a glitch is his matrix.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    Note to lurkers I have already answered this questions multiple times but DB is in his circling mode and gets like this by asking the same question of a variatiion over and over again. Seems to be a glitch is his matrix.
    No! You have not--and you won't fool a single lurker with that post.

    Do you believe that God has a resurrected body?

    It's a yes or no answer. Diversion into the persons of the Godhead will not answer the question.

    There is but one God--either He has a resurrected body or He does not. We know about the persons.

  4. #54
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    No! You have not--and you won't fool a single lurker with that post.

    Do you believe that God has a resurrected body?
    Sure I have answered your question and I will answer it again one more time for you. Perhaps you will get it this time.

    God the Father does not have a resurrected body, God the Son has a resurrected body.

  5. #55
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    There is but one God--either He has a resurrected body or He does not.
    And why do you say that?

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    Sure I have answered your question and I will answer it again one more time for you. Perhaps you will get it this time.

    God the Father does not have a resurrected body, God the Son has a resurrected body.
    You only thing you do with those posts is show the faith alone belief to be ambiguous.

    You list God there in both the Father and the Son.

    You ***ign one a resurrected body and one without a resurrected body.

    But yet--you believe they are the same God.

    If they are the same God--they have the same substance--as the Trinitarian doctrine states--the "****ousious God".

    Billyray--****ousious means same substance. A resurrected Body for God and God not having a resurrected body is not only contrary to a ****ousious God--it is downright contradictory.

  7. #57
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post


    Billyray--****ousious means same substance.
    That is a term that is not in the Bible and I never use that term. Why don't we stick with what we have in the Bible. God the Father is God, God the Son is God, and God the HS is God. And there only one God.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    That is a term that is not in the Bible and I never use that term.
    Oh, but the Trinitarian creed does. That was the very heart and soul of Trinitarianism.

    You do use the tern "same essence--do you not?

    Where do you find that in the Bible?


    Why don't we stick with what we have in the Bible.
    Because if we did--the faith alone theology would disappear, as there is not the first mention of any such term in any Bible the faith alone use.

    In fact--the closest thing we have of faith alone in any translation the faith alone use is this:

    James2:24--" Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only."


    God the Father is God, God the Son is God, and God the HS is God. And there only one God.
    If there is only one God--then why are you ***igning both a resurrected body and not a resurrected to that one God?

  9. #59
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    Oh, but the Trinitarian creed does. That was the very heart and soul of Trinitarianism.

    You do use the tern "same essence--do you not?
    Nope I personally don't use that term.

  10. #60
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    Because if we did--the faith alone theology would disappear. . .
    Why do you say that?

  11. #61
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    James2:24--" Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only."
    James 2
    23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,”[e] and he was called God’s friend. 24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.

    Romans 4
    4 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, discovered in this matter? 2 If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God. 3 What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.” 4 Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.


    I am going to ***ume that you really want to know the truth. Given that ***umption please give me a summary statement such that the above sets of verses are both taken into account and both true as written.

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    Billyray---That is a term that is not in the Bible and I never use that term. Why don't we stick with what we have in the Bible. God the Father is God, God the Son is God, and God the HS is God. And there only one God.

    Billyray--you use the terms co-equal and co-eternal. Where do you find those terms in the Bible?

  13. #63
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    Billyray--you use the terms co-equal and co-eternal. Where do you find those terms in the Bible?
    Philipians 2
    5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
    6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

  14. #64
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    Billyray--you use the terms co-equal and co-eternal. Where do you find those terms in the Bible?
    Now lets look at YOUR heretical views of God.

    Isaiah 43
    10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

    Tell me what this verse says.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    Philipians 2
    5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
    6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
    And where is co-eternal?

  16. #66
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    And where is co-eternal?
    John 1
    1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    2 The same was in the beginning with God.

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    Now lets look at YOUR heretical views of God.

    Isaiah 43
    10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

    Tell me what this verse says.
    Just what Michael states:

    1. The plural ʾĕlōhm of Psalm 82:1, 6 are divine beings, not human judges or humans fulfilling any role.

    2. The term monotheism is inadequate to describe what it is Israel believed about God and the members of his council. As the text explicitly says, there are other ʾĕlōhm.

    3. References to "us" and "our" in p***ages like Genesis 1:26 do not refer to the Trinity. The plural ʾĕlōhm of Psalm 82 are also not members of the Trinity.

    4. The denial statements of Isaiah and elsewhere ("there is no god beside me") do not cons***ute denials of the existence of other ʾĕlōhm. Rather, they are statements of Yahweh's incomparability.

  18. #68
    Billyray
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    Default This is a simple verse please tell me what it says.

    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    4. The denial statements of Isaiah and elsewhere ("there is no god beside me") do not cons***ute denials of the existence of other ʾĕlōhm. Rather, they are statements of Yahweh's incomparability.
    Isaiah 43
    10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

    Tell me what this verse says.

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    Isaiah 43
    10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

    Tell me what this verse says.
    dberrie----Just what Michael states:

    1. The plural ʾĕlōhm of Psalm 82:1, 6 are divine beings, not human judges or humans fulfilling any role.

    2. The term monotheism is inadequate to describe what it is Israel believed about God and the members of his council. As the text explicitly says, there are other ʾĕlōhm.

    3. References to "us" and "our" in p***ages like Genesis 1:26 do not refer to the Trinity. The plural ʾĕlōhm of Psalm 82 are also not members of the Trinity.

    4. The denial statements of Isaiah and elsewhere ("there is no god beside me") do not cons***ute denials of the existence of other ʾĕlōhm. Rather, they are statements of Yahweh's incomparability.

    How is there no Gods beside Jesus Christ--and the divine council consisting of a number of Gods?

    1. The plural ʾĕlōhm of Psalm 82:1, 6 are divine beings, not human judges or humans fulfilling any role.

    What is it about plural Elohim that we are not getting?

    Michael Heiser addressed the issue about your question--I posted it.

    What is your answer to the Hebrew Bible having numerous Elohim in the divine council?

  20. #70
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    How is there no Gods beside Jesus Christ--and the divine council consisting of a number of Gods?
    Focus brother berrie you are losing your train of thought. We wern't speaking about Psalm 82 were were in Isaiah 43

    Isaiah 43
    10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

    Tell me what this verse says.

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    Focus brother berrie you are losing your train of thought. We wern't speaking about Psalm 82 were were in Isaiah 43

    Isaiah 43
    10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

    Tell me what this verse says.
    It states there is but one God--no others.

    And this is the "one God" of the NT:

    1 Cor8:6--"But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him."

    So--was that Jesus Christ speaking in Isaiah--or God the Father?

    Since Jesus Christ had a God--was that God formed before Him--or after?

  22. #72
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    It states there is but one God--no others.
    Great you are making progress. Since you are a polytheist then tell me who is this one God? Then tell me who are the others who are NOT a God?

  23. #73
    Senior Member TrueBlue?'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    Focus brother berrie you are losing your train of thought. We wern't speaking about Psalm 82 were were in Isaiah 43

    Isaiah 43
    10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

    Tell me what this verse says.
    Iranaeus has explained it very well

    And thus shalt thou say to the children of Israel: He who is, hath sent me unto you;” (Exo_3:14) and His Son Jesus Christ our Lord, who makes those that believe in His name the sons of God. And again, when the Son speaks to Moses, He says, “I am come down to deliver this people.” (Exo_3:8) For it is He who descended and ascended for the salvation of men. Therefore God has been declared through the Son, who is in the Father, and has the Father in Himself — He who is, the Father bearing witness to the Son, and the Son announcing the Father. — As also Esaias says, “I too am witness,” he declares, “saith the Lord God, and the Son whom I have chosen, that ye may know, and believe, and understand that I am.” (Isa_43:10)
    Once again reading the scriptures as the Jews did so as the Jews, you cannot recognize truly who Christ is and in effect shout with the Pharisees "Cruficy Him" because you try and strip away His Iden***y along with the Fathers.

    Joh_17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

    The Early Church Fathers of the first century understood the meaning of this verse and the nature of God, because they were taught by the ones who wrote the verses. They conversed with them. They were able to ask the questions we speak of here and receive answers straight from the mouths of the Apostles on issues like this. Something some of us could only dream of. This is something that one of those Fathers has stated about the doctrine you are spewing forth.

    Irenaeus - Wherefore I do also call upon thee, Lord God of Abraham, and God of Isaac, and God of Jacob and Israel, who art the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the God who, through the abundance of Thy mercy, hast had a favour towards us, that we should know Thee, who hast made heaven and earth, who rulest over all, who art the only and the true God, above whom there is none other God; grant, by our Lord Jesus Christ, the governing power of the Holy Spirit; give to every reader of this book to know Thee, that Thou art God alone, to be strengthened in Thee, and to avoid every heretical, and godless, and impious doctrine
    He understood who the Only True God was, and that Jesus was a God, but second to Our Father, with Our Father being the Only True God.

  24. #74
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrueBlue? View Post
    He understood who the Only True God was, and that Jesus was a God, but second to Our Father, with Our Father being the Only True God.


    Isaiah 43
    10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.


    So you believe that this verse is teaching that the Father is the only true God and since you believe that the Father, Son, and HS are separate and distinct you must also believe that the Son and the HS are false Gods. Is that what you really believe?

  25. #75
    Senior Member TrueBlue?'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    [/B]
    Isaiah 43
    10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.


    So you believe that this verse is teaching that the Father is the only true God and since you believe that the Father, Son, and HS are separate and distinct you must also believe that the Son and the HS are false Gods. Is that what you really believe?
    You can try and put words in my mouth that I have never spoken all you want Billyray, but the more I read of your posts the more I see you care nothing for truth. I truly wonder if you truly believe in this false God that you espouse. Me thinks you are only on here to find fault with Mormons because of some deep hatred. I have never seen anyone throw scripture under the bus as often as you have. Never have I seen anyone bare false witness of others as much as you have. With no diginity to yourself, you take things to the tenth degree no matter how ******** it makes you appear.

    Are you saying that you believe that Iranaeus believes that Christ and the Holy Ghost are false Gods? Do you believe that the Apostles, because of there written testimony of the One True God is believes that Christ is a false God?

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