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Thread: God as Spirit or flesh and bone

  1. #126
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    --there were numerous Gods in the divine council.
    Who are these gods in the divine council in Psalm 82?

  2. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    Who are these gods in the divine council in Psalm 82?
    Which ones---in the first verse it speaks to all divine beings (angels, etc)---and then later it speaks of those who have been called as judges and rulers.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  3. #128
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    Which ones---in the first verse it speaks to all divine beings (angels, etc)---and then later it speaks of those who have been called as judges and rulers.
    You seem to differ from DB on this. So in verse 1 the gods are you spiritual brothers?

  4. #129
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    ---and then later it speaks of those who have been called as judges and rulers.
    and these are simply unrighteous humans?

  5. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    and these are simply unrighteous humans?
    whom God calls judges and rulers. Do you think the angels you are to judge in the next life are "unrighteous angels" are part of this council as well?
    Last edited by BigJulie; 06-26-2012 at 11:07 PM.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  6. #131
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    whom God calls judges and rulers.
    Which are mere humans correct?

  7. #132
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    Do you think the angels you are to judge in the next life are "unrighteous angels" are part of this council as well?
    There are not angels in Psalm 82.

  8. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    There are not angels in Psalm 82.
    The word "elohim" is also translated as "angels" in the OT.

    1) (plural)

    a) rulers, judges

    b) divine ones

    c) angels

    d) gods


    Why are you insistent that the "gods" spoken of in this council which God rules is "rulers and judges" but not angels?
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  9. #134
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    Why are you insistent that the "gods" spoken of in this council which God rules is "rulers and judges" but not angels?
    Because of context

  10. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    Because of context
    In the context, there is nothing to say that in verse 1, God narrowly defines His council as only human judges and rulers. You might narrowly define God that way, but the Bible doesn't.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  11. #136
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    In the context, there is nothing to say that in verse 1, God narrowly defines His council as only human judges and rulers. You might narrowly define God that way, but the Bible doesn't.
    Read the surrounding verses.

  12. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    Read the surrounding verses.
    Even reading the surrounding verses. The first verse makes a broad definition of who God is. If you don't think He rules the angels---well, I disagree.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  13. #138
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    Even reading the surrounding verses. The first verse makes a broad definition of who God is. If you don't think He rules the angels---well, I disagree.
    Even Talmage understood that these were human judges.


    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    James Talmage "Jesus the Christ"
    "Plainly they had found no ambiguity in His words. He then cited to them the scriptures, wherein even judges empowered by divine authority are called gods, 9 and asked: "Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken: say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?"

  14. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    Even Talmage understood that these were human judges.
    I think he is speaking of Psalms 82:6 not Psalms 82:1 which speaks to who God is and that He rules the divine council (which is in no way limited to only human judges.)
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  15. #140
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    I think he is speaking of Psalms 82:6 not Psalms 82:1 which speaks to who God is and that He rules the divine council (which is in no way limited to only human judges.)
    When reading the Psalm in contex why do you think the gods in verse 1 are different than the gods in verse 6?

  16. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    When reading the Psalm in contex why do you think the gods in verse 1 are different than the gods in verse 6?
    Because it is a broad declaration in verse 1 of who God is. Why would you think that the mighty is ONLY the judges especially in light that they were being wicked at the time---why on earth would God call then "mighty" then?
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  17. #142
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    Because it is a broad declaration in verse 1 of who God is.
    1*God presides in the great ***embly he renders judgment among the “gods”:

    I am speaking about "among the gods". Why do you think that these are different gods than in verse 6 when reading the entire Psalm in contex?

  18. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    1*God presides in the great ***embly he renders judgment among the “gods”:

    I am speaking about "among the gods". Why do you think that these are different gods than in verse 6 when reading the entire Psalm in contex?
    In reading the entire text of Psalms 82....in verse one, it is clearly a broad definition that God rules all rulers, in heaven and on earth.

    Isa 24:21 ¶ And it shall come to p*** in that day, [that] the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones [that are] on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.

    Psalms 82:6 lend one to believe that those who are ruling on earth are not doing a good ***. Hence, he rules all---you children of the Most High God who have been called by Him are not doing.

    Who do you think is being referred to at the end of the verse:

    Psa 82:8 Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.

    Who is going to "inherit" all nations?
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  19. #144
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    In reading the entire text of Psalms 82....in verse one, it is clearly a broad definition that God rules all rulers, in heaven and on earth.
    It doesn't say that in context at all.

  20. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    It doesn't say that in context at all.
    Yes it does.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  21. #146
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    Yes it does.
    Lets look at it verse by verse then.

  22. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    Lets look at it verse by verse then.
    Okay......................
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  23. #148
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    Okay......................
    A psalm of Asaph.

    1 God presides in the great ***embly; he renders judgment among the “gods”:
    2 How long will you defend the unjust and show partiality to the wicked?
    3 Defend the weak and the fatherless;

    Who are the "you" in verse 2?

  24. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    A psalm of Asaph.

    1 God presides in the great ***embly; he renders judgment among the “gods”:
    2 How long will you defend the unjust and show partiality to the wicked?
    3 Defend the weak and the fatherless;

    Who are the "you" in verse 2?
    Who is in the "great ***embly"---are there only human judges and rulers?
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  25. #150
    Russianwolfe
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    I think he is speaking of Psalms 82:6 not Psalms 82:1 which speaks to who God is and that He rules the divine council (which is in no way limited to only human judges.)
    And don't forget that Talmadge quote is over 75 years old. He didn't have the benefit of all the research and discovery that has gone on since he wrote those words. Even Nibley said he could not be held accountable for anything he said or wrote over 10 years before.

    Marvin

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