Apology to Christians

[BigJulie]

BigJ did you ever hear that there was a plan in the original LDS temple to offer animal sacrifices?

If there was--it hasn't occured.

[Billyray]

It best corresponds to the Holy of Holies in the Salt Lake temple.

What about the Holy Place that allowed a substantial percentage of the Jewish male population but restricted it from the rest of the Jewish population. Where is this in the LDS temple?

[dberrie2000]

What about the Holy Place that allowed a substantial percentage of the Jewish male population but restricted it from the rest of the Jewish population. Where is this in the LDS temple?

The dressing room.

[BigJulie]

the dressing room.

............................

[Billyray]

Temple square best corresponds with the court of the gentiles.

Temple square best corresponds to the area that surrounds the temple proper with the caveat that there is a separate area for the Jews and a separate area for the Gentiles. This area is open to all people within their respective areas. The temple proper on the other hand restricts entrance to a subset of the jews just like the lds temple restructs entrance to a subset of LDS.

[Billyray]

The dressing room.

You realize that women were not allowed inside the temple proper? Right?

BTW when did God change this restriction?

[BigJulie]

Temple square best corresponds to the area that surrounds the temple proper with the caveat that there is a separate area for the Jews and a separate area for the Gentiles. This area is open to all people within their respective areas. The temple proper on the other hand restricts entrance to a subset of the jews just like the lds temple restructs entrance to a subset of LDS.

Billyray, read up on it---Jews were not allowed to go into the temple at all if they were unworthy or unclean. (Are you forgetting all the things they could be stoned to death for?) Women were not allowed to go in if they were menstrating. Men were not allowed to go in if they had any type of issue as well.

Oh my---you are really stretching here. Do you remember that, Paul, as a Jew, was beaten for entering the temple when he was thought unworthy...wasn't he taken to the centurion for just such a reason?

"The entire Temple compound was considered holy, but it became increasingly more holy as one entered farther in, from east to west. King Herod had enclosed the outer court with colonnades and it was referred to as the Court of the Gentiles because the "gentiles" (non-Jews) were permitted to enter the Temple area. They could walk within in it but they were forbidden to go any further than the outer court. They were excluded from entering into any of the inner courts, and warning signs in Greek and Latin were placed that gave warning that the penalty for such trespass was death. The Romans permitted the Jewish authorities to carry out the death penalty for this offence, even if the offender were a Roman citizen. It was for this alleged crime that Paul was attacked and nearly beaten to death by an angry crowd during his last visit to Jerusalem (Acts 21:27-32)."

[Billyray]

Oh my---you are really stretching here. Do you remember that, Paul, as a Jew, was beaten for entering the temple when he was thought unworthy...wasn't he taken to the centurion for just such a reason?

What did Paul do that made him unworthy and do you believe that beating him made him worthy?


Why did they try and kill Paul according to the verses below?

Acts 26
20*But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.
21*For these causes the Jews caught me in the temple, and went about to kill me.

[Billyray]

"The entire Temple compound was considered holy, but it became increasingly more holy as one entered farther in, from east to west. King Herod had enclosed the outer court with colonnades and it was referred to as the Court of the Gentiles because the "gentiles" (non-Jews) were permitted to enter the Temple area

Did you mean "were not"? Because as wriiter above I agree that the Gentiles were allowed to enter the exterior temple area.

[Billyray]

"The entire Temple compound was considered holy, but it became increasingly more holy as one entered farther in, from east to west.

And what part of the LDS temple corresponds to the Holy of Holies and the Holy place which allows a select group inside but restricts others of that same group?

[Billyray]

The Romans permitted the Jewish authorities to carry out the death penalty for this offence, even if the offender were a Roman citizen

Please provide a reference for this.

[BigJulie]

Please provide a reference for this.

As far as I know the Roman's could not beat a Roman citizen, but that does not mean that they did not permit the Jews to do unto the Jews who were also Roman what they would.

Hence, when Paul stated to the Roman he was a Roman, it made a difference.

Here is your reference:

http://www.bible-history.com/jewisht...e_Gentiles.htm

[RealFakeHair]

In modern temples, we no longer use animals. We, ourselves, are the sacrifice. We bring ourselves to the alter with a broken heart and a contrite spirit.

I broke my heart in Salf Lake City? Don't remember that tune.
Anyways, We Christians believe Jesus made himself the final sacrifice, and we are his living sacrifice.
No temple needed for that, and by the way is there an alter call in the temple?

[Billyray]

As far as I know the Roman's could not beat a Roman citizen, but that does not mean that they did not permit the Jews to do unto the Jews who were also Roman what they would.

But the Jews would not be killed for entering an area that authorized Jews such as the area where Paul was even though Paul was no longer under the law.

[BigJulie]

I broke my heart in Salf Lake City? Don't remember that tune.

Anyways, We Christians believe Jesus made himself the final sacrifice, and we are his living sacrifice.
No temple needed for that, and by the way is there an alter call in the temple?

Yes, I understand that you believe that Jesus made the final sacrifice---but his sacrifice was as important to the Jews as it is for us. The sacrifices required of the Jews was not only to teach them of Christ, but to give them a very direct, personal experience of what it means to follow Him. When they gave up something important to them (the best that they had) they learned what it was for God to sacrifice for us. Likewise, we today learn of God by sacrificing ourselves or submitting to him. Combining spiritual beliefs with physical acts (as with baptism), it is a powerful teacher as to who God is and what He has done for us.

[Billyray]

Yes, I understand that you believe that Jesus made the final sacrifice---but his sacrifice was as important to the Jews as it is for us.

And the temple and ordinances pointed to Christ, now Christ has come and offered himself a sacrifice why do you still feel a need for a temple and what evidence do you have in the Bible that the NT built and utilized a temple?

[James Banta]

I found this at a Christian website. Where do you think Paul went---according to this discription:


Do you think he stayed outside where both the gentiles and Jews could go or do you think he went to the place that male Jews could go if they were clean and purified?

I am using a picture of the Tabernacle just to make it a bit more simple.. There was no putter courts to it.. There was the courtyard where the Alter was sat up and the Tabernacle itself.. That was where the people would bring their offerings to the Door of the Congregation. They did NOT enter the courtyard of the priests EVER! Why would that change when Paul walked within the walls of Temple mount? Paul entered the Courtyard of the Israelites. The gentiles entered the courtyard of the Gentiles. The women the courtyard of the women and the Priest the courtyard of the priest and the Holy Place.. The Holies of Holies was entered only twice a years and then only by the High Priest with blood first for his sins and the second time with blood for the people sins.. Learn about the temple and you will see that this is the whole truth.. IHS jim

[Billyray]

What about the Holy Place that allowed a substantial percentage of the Jewish male population but restricted it from the rest of the Jewish population. Where is this in the LDS temple?

Any LDS have an answer for this?

[Billyray]

King Herod had enclosed the outer court with colonnades and it was referred to as the Court of the Gentiles because the "gentiles" (non-Jews) were permitted to enter the Temple area.

After the death of Christ did God recommend separating Jews and Gentiles anymore and how would this relate to a temple? Do you think that God would recommend separating the Gentiles from worship at the temple if there really was a NT temple?

[Russianwolfe]

Any LDS have an answer for this?

Yeah, you don't know what you are talking about.

No LDS has ever attempted to compare the Jewish Temple to modern LDS temples. That was and is your mistake. I have said before and I will tell you again, the two temples can be compare only generally. But because of their two different functions, they cannot be compare specifically. And you are attempting to compare them specifically, which is a complete FAIL!

The temple before the Resurrection served a different purpose than the modern LDS temple. The Jewish temple was administered by the Aaronic Priesthood and the LDS Temple is administered by the Melchizedek Priesthood. The Jewish temple performed rites for the temporal salvation of the Jews. The LDS temple performs rites for the eternal salvation of the LDS. This makes the two temple so different that the metaphor of comparing apples and oranges is quite appropriate.

Marvin

[Billyray]

No LDS has ever attempted to compare the Jewish Temple to modern LDS temples. That was and is your mistake. I have said before and I will tell you again, the two temples can be compare only generally. But because of their two different functions, they cannot be compare specifically. And you are attempting to compare them specifically, which is a complete FAIL!

I am glad to hear you admit that the Jewish temple and the LDS temple have nothing to do with each other in form or function. Bravo Marvin.

[BigJulie]

I am glad to hear you admit that the Jewish temple and the LDS temple have nothing to do with each other in form or function. Bravo Marvin.

In form--in function, both bring the disciple closer to Christ.

[Russianwolfe]

I am glad to hear you admit that the Jewish temple and the LDS temple have nothing to do with each other in form or function. Bravo Marvin.

And I am glad that you are now willing to admit that you have no idea what you are talking about.

Marvin

[Billyray]

The temple before the Resurrection served a different purpose than the modern LDS temple.

So you don't have any evidence that the NT members worshipped or performed any rituals in any NT temple. Correct?

[Russianwolfe]

In form--in function, both bring the disciple closer to Christ.

And that both were revealed to their respective prophets by God through revelation. But you will never get Billyray to admit this.

Marvin