Apology to Christians

[Billyray]

I am only pointing out that it is talking about th oaths that men make, without any reference to the oaths that God requires of us.

It doesn't say that at all Marvin.


Matthew 5
34*But I tell you, do not swear an oath at all: either by heaven, for it is God’s throne; 35*or by the earth, for it is his footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King. 36*And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even one hair white or black. 37*All you need to say is simply ‘Yes’ or ‘No’; anything beyond this comes from the evil one.

[James Banta]

"without any reference to the oaths that God requires of us. "

Here you are again teaching that God gives us contradictory commands.. Marvin Jesus commanded us not to swear at all!!! Why would you them profess that He REQUIRES us to swear an oath at all? You again are not making any sense when looked at through the teachings of the Bible.. But why would I be surprised.. You never do!!! IHS jim

[Russianwolfe]

It doesn't say that at all Marvin.


Matthew 5
34*But I tell you, do not swear an oath at all: either by heaven, for it is God’s throne; 35*or by the earth, for it is his footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King. 36*And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even one hair white or black. 37*All you need to say is simply ‘Yes’ or ‘No’; anything beyond this comes from the evil one.

Doesn't change a thing that I have said. It is tell you not to swear an oath. It says nothing about secret or temple. You have to read this into the text to get that meaning out of it. And this is the wrong way to read the scriptures. But I see you doing it all the time.

Marvin

[Billyray]

It is tell you not to swear an oath. . .

If it tells you not to swear an oath then why do you swear an oath?

[Russianwolfe]

If it tells you not to swear an oath then why do you swear an oath?

Because it is not an oath that I have made up. It is an oath that is required of me by God. And I am not swearing by any of the things that he said not to swear by.

Marvin

[Billyray]

Because it is not an oath that I have made up. It is an oath that is required of me by God. And I am not swearing by any of the things that he said not to swear by.

Marvin

Matthew 5:34 But I tell you, do not swear an oath at all: either by heaven, for it is God’s throne;

Marvin you would be wise to listen to this verse but I know that you won't. BTW we are here to help you guys see the truth but we can't force you to accept it.

[Russianwolfe]

Matthew 5:34 But I tell you, do not swear an oath at all: either by heaven, for it is God’s throne;

Marvin you would be wise to listen to this verse but I know that you won't. BTW we are here to help you guys see the truth but we can't force you to accept it.

So you are saying that I should trust you more than God. I DON'T THINK SO!

Marvin

[Billyray]

So you are saying that I should trust you more than God. I DON'T THINK SO!

I think you should trust God's word which he gave to us in the Bible. In this case that you shouldn't make secret oaths. But it is clear that you are rejecting his word and exchanging it for a lie. Best wishes to you Marvin. Hope things work out for you in the end.

[Russianwolfe]

I think you should trust God's word which he gave to us in the Bible. In this case that you shouldn't make secret oaths. But it is clear that you are rejecting his word and exchanging it for a lie. Best wishes to you Marvin. Hope things work out for you in the end.

What you really mean is that I should trust your understanding of God's word as recorded in the bible. Since you have proven so poor a interpretator of what the LDS believe, I don't think I can trust what you interpret the Bible to say.

Marvin

[James Banta]

What you really mean is that I should trust your understanding of God's word as recorded in the bible. Since you have proven so poor a interpretator of what the LDS believe, I don't think I can trust what you interpret the Bible to say.

Marvin

Yes this is hard to interpret..

Eph 2:8-9
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.

That takes a real Biblical scholar, NOT!! IHS jim

[Russianwolfe]

Yes this is hard to interpret..

Eph 2:8-9
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.

That takes a real Biblical scholar, NOT!! IHS jim

Another fine example of Single Scripture Theology. When your theology considers the whole Bible, get back to me.

You are ignoring many verses that clearly say that work are instrumental to salvation. And nothing Chris taught the Apostles or the mul***udes said that it was only by faith. All his parables clearly stated that works were instrumental to salvation.

Marvin

[Billyray]

Another fine example of Single Scripture Theology. When your theology considers the whole Bible, get back to me.

Marvin

Perhaps Marvin you could explain these verses for us?

[James Banta]

Another fine example of Single Scripture Theology. When your theology considers the whole Bible, get back to me.

You are ignoring many verses that clearly say that work are instrumental to salvation. And nothing Chris taught the Apostles or the mul***udes said that it was only by faith. All his parables clearly stated that works were instrumental to salvation.

Marvin

There is not a single verse that speaks of salvation that either doesn't include Faith as the main source of salvation, or makes it clear that complete obedience is required, an obedience not one person other than Jesus has ever lived up to.. If Eph 2:8-9 was the only passage that spoke to faith or belief as the way to eternal life/salvation/everlasting life then you could say that but it is Not, Paul spoke to it several times.. John spokes to it almost as often, even James said that works manifest saving faith.. Over and over again it is faith that accesses the grace of God..

I found it interesting that you speak of all the references for works being the method that grace is accessed and all you do is go to James 2.. But when I point again to Eph 2 you scream I am teaching a one passage gospel.. You need to stop the one passage teaching before you insist that others do that but you don't.. Right ????? So stop it!!!

You insisted that Christians here were having trouble interpreting the Bible.. I show you a passage that clearly tells us that salvation is by the grace of God though Faith in Jesus and you no longer say the Bible is difficult for Christian to interpret but now want to say that this message is only found in one place taught by one man.. Jesus also taught that believing in Him was the source of everlasting Life (John 3:16). John explains that we can know we have eternal life IF WE BELIEVE IN JESUS (1 John 5:13).. These are but a few examples but they are there. Both in the NT and the OT the message od life is seen to be given to those that trust God.. Abraham believed God and it was counted to Him for righteousness (Gen 15:6).. You are so far off base with your comments here that you aren't even in the ball park.. IHS jim

[John T]

Another fine example of Single Scripture Theology. When your theology considers the whole Bible, get back to me.

Marvin

***us 3:3 At one time we too were foolish, disobedient, deceived and enslaved by all kinds of passions and pleasures. We lived in malice and envy, being hated and hating one another.
4 But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared,
5 he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,
6 whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior,
7 so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life.

When you are ready to UNDERSTAND AND NOT CRITICIZE Scripture, get back to us Christians.

[James Banta]

***us 3:3 At one time we too were foolish, disobedient, deceived and enslaved by all kinds of passions and pleasures. We lived in malice and envy, being hated and hating one another.
4 But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared,
5 he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,
6 whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior,
7 so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life.

When you are ready to UNDERSTAND AND NOT CRITICIZE Scripture, get back to us Christians.

It would appear that his one verse theology claim has run into a bit of Biblical truth then crashed and burned.. In spite of what mormonism claims Bible doctrine is NOT mormon doctrine.. They deny salvation by grace through faith (Eph 2:8-9), They deny that everlasting life is given to all who believe in Jesus (John 2:16). They deny that a believer in Jesus is imputed with the righteousness of Jesus (Romans 4:24).

How many times have you seen a mormon use James 2:17 however improperly as the primary verse to try to prove their position of works salvation? I found it astounding that he would make such a charge when mormonism is so out of context dependent on a very few passages of the Bible.. IHS jim

[alanmolstad]

TrueBlue said -

Yesterday I was listening to Casting Crowns, a Christian band my daughter and I were performing a dance to one of the songs

t.

What way?
What type of dance?...free form?

[BigJulie]

Another fine example of Single Scripture Theology. When your theology considers the whole Bible, get back to me.

You are ignoring many verses that clearly say that work are instrumental to salvation. And nothing Chris taught the Apostles or the mul***udes said that it was only by faith. All his parables clearly stated that works were instrumental to salvation.

Marvin

I agree---the parable of the talents (doing something), the parable of the workers in the vineyard (doing something), the parable of the two sons (doing something), the parable of the good Samaritan (not only doing something but using an example of a "non-believer" doing something), the parable of the wedding supper (doing something), the parable of the ten virgins (doing something).

[Billyray]

I agree---the parable of the talents (doing something), the parable of the workers in the vineyard (doing something), the parable of the two sons (doing something), the parable of the good Samaritan (not only doing something but using an example of a "non-believer" doing something), the parable of the wedding supper (doing something), the parable of the ten virgins (doing something).

The Bible teaches that salvation is by grace through faith and not by works.

We don't earn our salvation/exaltation.

John 3:15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”

John 3:16 16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

John 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.

John 5: 24 “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

John 6:47 Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.

John 11:25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; 26 and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?”

What do these verses say is the requirement for eternal life/exaltation?