The Regeneration through water baptism

[theway]

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

Could you tell me how much water saves you?
one drop? one Gallon? an ocean full?
You can't answer this, no one ever has.
I can tell you just one drop of blood can save your soul.
Jesus paid the price, all one needs is to believe, do you?
Once again, the Holy Bible never tells us Water baptism saves us.

That's an easy question.

No, water does not save you; however by that same line of literal reasoning, blood will not save anyone either.

It is the waters of baptism unto repentance which can save you. Likewise, it is the blood of Christ being spilt on our behalf, which saves us from physical death, and allows for us to be saved from spiritual death as well.


But then, you likewise believe in ordinances done only by someone with the authority to do them, has the power to save people as well; so I don't understand your objection.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by theway

It is the waters of baptism unto repentance which can save you.

in other words works are what saves you. Is that what you really believe?

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by BigJulie
RealFake, you seem to be missing the point that AFTER the gentiles had received a witness of the Holy Ghost, they were then baptized by water.

Originally Posted by Billyray

Sure. Just like most Christians. But the queston is whether or not baptism contributes for salvation. What say you?

Please do show where most Christians received the Holy Ghost before water baptism in the Biblical NT.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Please do show where most Christians received the Holy Ghost before water baptism in the Biblical NT.

Acts 10
44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. 45 The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles. 46 For they heard them speaking in tongues[b] and praising God.

Then Peter said, 47 “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.” 48 So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.

These guys recieved the Holy Spirit prior to baptism.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by BigJulie
RealFake, you seem to be missing the point that AFTER the gentiles had received a witness of the Holy Ghost, they were then baptized by water.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billyray
Sure. Just like most Christians. But the queston is whether or not baptism contributes for salvation. What say you?

dberrie---Please do show where most Christians received the Holy Ghost before water baptism in the Biblical NT.

Originally Posted by Billyray

Acts 10
44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. 45 The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles. 46 For they heard them speaking in tongues[b] and praising God.

Then Peter said, 47 “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.” 48 So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.

These guys recieved the Holy Spirit prior to baptism.

Quoting the only place in the entire NT where the order of events happened in this way does not validate your statement that "most Christians" receive it such a manner.

And that order of events for a good reason--it was a witness to Peter that God had accepted the Gentiles for salvation also.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Quoting the only place in the entire NT where the order of events happened in this way does not validate your statement that "most Christians" receive it such a manner.

It just shows that your belief that a person has to be baptized prior to receiving the Holy Spirit is false. This is what I mean that you have to look at ALL of the NT verses to come up with theology rather than being a cherry picker like you.

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by theway

That's an easy question.

No, water does not save you; however by that same line of literal reasoning, blood will not save anyone either.

It is the waters of baptism unto repentance which can save you. Likewise, it is the blood of Christ being spilt on our behalf, which saves us from physical death, and allows for us to be saved from spiritual death as well.


But then, you likewise believe in ordinances done only by someone with the authority to do them, has the power to save people as well; so I don't understand your objection.

Okay so at least we got the water out of the way, so I guess that is progress.

As Peter said, "repent and be baptized."
I we see repentence comes before baptism.
"baptize in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
So we agree water isn't mention here, thus if we can see from other scripture that the when water is asks for. Act 10:47. Peter asks, "Can any man forbid water that these should not be baptized which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Notice here in the next verse, notice it carefully.
Act 10:48, And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.
Did you notice, Peter did not say for the remission of sin?
Why? Because their sins had already been forgiven of them, they had recieved the Holy Ghost. Amen, and Amen.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

Okay so at least we got the water out of the way, so I guess that is progress.

As Peter said, "repent and be baptized."
I we see repentence comes before baptism.
"baptize in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
So we agree water isn't mention here, thus if we can see from other scripture that the when water is asks for. Act 10:47. Peter asks, "Can any man forbid water that these should not be baptized which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Notice here in the next verse, notice it carefully.
Act 10:48, And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.
Did you notice, Peter did not say for the remission of sin?
Why? Because their sins had already been forgiven of them, they had recieved the Holy Ghost. Amen, and Amen.

Peter taught that baptism is for the remission of sins. I guess you should have told him that he would need to repeat that teaching every time he spoke of baptism.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Peter taught that baptism is for the remission of sins. I guess you should have told him that he would need to repeat that teaching every time he spoke of baptism.

So without the work of baptism a person can't be saved. BigJ just be honest with us and tell us that you believe that you work your way to heaven.

[theway]

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

Okay so at least we got the water out of the way, so I guess that is progress.

As Peter said, "repent and be baptized."
I we see repentence comes before baptism.
"baptize in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
So we agree water isn't mention here, thus if we can see from other scripture that the when water is asks for. Act 10:47. Peter asks, "Can any man forbid water that these should not be baptized which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Notice here in the next verse, notice it carefully.
Act 10:48, And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.
Did you notice, Peter did not say for the remission of sin?
Why? Because their sins had already been forgiven of them, they had recieved the Holy Ghost. Amen, and Amen.

Really... that's it??? you would base your whole hope of salvation on the absence of one word, in one verse???
How weak of an argument is that. In any case, here is another.

"Then Peter said to them, REPENT, and let every one of you be BAPTISED IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." Acts 2:38

I guess because Peter didn't say "faith" here, that it must not be required... right?

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Peter taught that baptism is for the remission of sins. I guess you should have told him that he would need to repeat that teaching every time he spoke of baptism.

The reason why Peter, omitted, (remisson of sins?)
If as in mormon teaching there is a ritural of steps to become a memeber of the LDS inc. Then Peter goofed here, didn't he?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by theway

Really that's it??? you would base your whole hope of salvation on the absence of one word, in one verse???

There are lots of verses in the NT that clearly tell us that we are saved when we place our faith in Christ and NOT by works that we do.

[theway]

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

The reason why Peter, omitted, (remisson of sins?)
If as in mormon teaching there is a ritural of steps to become a memeber of the LDS inc. Then Peter goofed here, didn't he?

No... he didn't goof, the way is simple, just not written out every single time.

1. Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ
2. Repentance
3. Baptism by water
4. Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
5. Give your all
6. Endure to the end.

[theway]

Originally Posted by Billyray

There are lots of verses in the NT that clearly tell us that we are saved when we place our faith in Christ and NOT by works that we do.

Riddle me this…
[true senerio]
A couple who are living together unmarried (doing things worthy of being called fornicators) say they don’t need a piece of paper to justify their love and commitment for each other.
Are they correct in their ***umption?

Now these same two people go to a Christian revival and are converted having placed their faith in Christ, yet they go home and continue as they had before.
Will God save fornicators in the Kingdom of Heaven?
Are they saved based on the Bible?

Now they go out and get an authorized piece of paper from an authorised non-Christian judge which said that they went through the ordinance of marriage.
Are they now able to be saved?
Did the Paper save them?
Did the ordinance save them?
What saved them?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by theway

No... he didn't goof, the way is simple, just not written out every single time.

1. Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ
2. Repentance
3. Baptism by water
4. Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
5. Give your all
6. Endure to the end.

Why did the guys in Acts 10 get the Holy Spirit prior to baptism? So much for your cookie cutter religion.

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by theway

No... he didn't goof, the way is simple, just not written out every single time.

1. Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ
2. Repentance
3. Baptism by water
4. Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
5. Give your all
6. Endure to the end.

My guess this is the 6 step process towards mormon next step to all the other steps to the first step on the many more steps of the first step on towards the mormon exaltationaly step process?

Let me give you the Christian step found in the Holy Bible summed up in one step verse, John 3:16. The first and the last step to exaltaion.

[theway]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Why did the guys in Acts 10 get the Holy Spirit prior to baptism? So much for your cookie cutter religion.

The Holy Spirit has to come to you in some degree before you are baptised, else how do you know what you are doing is of God?
Silly question.

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by theway

The Holy Spirit has to come to you in some degree before you are baptised, else how do you know what you are doing is of God?
Silly question.

I'll go first, hum, at this time, yesterday, today or tomorrow?
Is there a degree like 1% to 99%, or is it 100% full?
I think I'll let theyway answer that.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by theway

The Holy Spirit has to come to you in some degree before you are baptised, else how do you know what you are doing is of God?
Silly question.

Acts 10
44*While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. 45*The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles. 46*For they heard them speaking in tongues[b] and praising God.


They received the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Nice try.

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Acts 10
44*While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. 45*The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles. 46*For they heard them speaking in tongues[b] and praising God.


They received the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Nice try.

Well at lease they had 1% or better.
I am still waiting on theway

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

Well at lease they had 1% or better.
I am still waiting on theway

And yet Peter still argued for their baptism.

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

And yet Peter still argued for their baptism.

Baptism, Baptism, Baptism, How many times do we agree on baptism?
We agree on the act of baptism, we disagree it is necessary for Salvation.
Mormonism is, the mormon jesus plus+
The Chirstian is Jesus, believe.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

And yet Peter still argued for their baptism.

We are commanded to be baptized BigJ. But does the work of baptism save you, that is what we seem to be arguing over.

BTW since Christians believe in baptism do you believe that those Christians who are baptized will be exalted?

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by Billyray

We are commanded to be baptized BigJ. But does the work of baptism save you, that is what we seem to be arguing over.

BTW since Christians believe in baptism do you believe that those Christians who are baptized will be exalted?

Exaltation, and me. I think I'll write another story here.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

Exaltation, and me. I think I'll write another story here.

LDS have 6 different definitions for the word salvation so in order to prevent confusion I compare the best that Christianity has to offer which is salvation and compare that to the best that Mormonism has to offer which is exaltation.