End Times--Mormon style

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Because when the Pharisees thought they understood plain English, they got it wrong.

I think that is a lame excuse for someone not being able to read plain English and understand it. Don't you?

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

I think that is a lame excuse for someone not being able to read plain English and understand it. Don't you?

No--learning from the past mistakes of those who thought they could read and understand minus the spirit (and yet they could not) is a good excuse to not do likewise.

Isa 55:9 For [as] the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

1Cr 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

There is good reason to keep an open mind when trying to understand the prophecies of God.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

There is good reason to keep an open mind when trying to understand the prophecies of God.

So you don't believe in the battle of Armegeddon as described in the LDS Bible Dictionary even though it is written as clear as day. Fair enough. But I believe it is something you don't believe rather that something the LDS church doesn't teach.

[Billyray]

http://ins***ute.lds.org/manuals/old...8-jer-ez-I.asp

Old Testament Student Manual
Enrichment I The Battle of Armageddon: A Prophetic View

". . .“At the very moment of the Second Coming of our Lord, ‘all nations’ shall be gathered ‘against Jerusalem to battle’ ( Zech. 11 ; 12 ; 13 ; 14 ), and the battle of Armageddon (obviously covering the entire area from Jerusalem to Megiddo, and perhaps more) will be in progress. As John expressed it, ‘the kings of the earth and of the whole world’ will be gathered ‘to the battle of that great day of God Almighty, . . . into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.’ Then Christ will ‘come as a thief,’ meaning unexpectedly, and the dramatic upheavals promised to accompany his return will take place. ( Rev. 16:14–21 .) It is incident to this battle of Armageddon that the Supper of the Great God shall take place ( Rev. 19:11–18 ), and it is the same battle described by Ezekiel as the war with Gog and Magog. ( Ezek. 38 ; 39 ; Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p. 45.)” ( Mormon Doctrine, p. 74.). . ."


BigJ are you sure you are really LDS? I am starting to have my doubts because your knowledge is quite limited.

[Billyray]

http://ins***ute.lds.org/manuals/new...n-12-12-55.asp

". . .(55-31) Revelation 16:16 . “A Place Called in the Hebrew Tongue Armageddon”

Lying about sixty miles north of Jerusalem is the site of Megiddo, a great mound or hill commanding the northern entrance to the broad plain called the valley of Esdraelon. The mountain or hill of Megiddo ( Har Meggido in Hebrew, of which Armageddon is the Greek transliteration) guarded the strategic p*** that cuts through the mountain range separating the coastal plains from the inland plains and hill country of Galilee. Because of this fortress or Mount of Megiddo, the valley and surrounding areas have also come to be known as Armageddon.

One of the most important highways of the ancient world—the main link between Egypt and Asia—ran through this valley and near the fortress of Megiddo. Because of that strategic location, Megiddo and the valley of Esdraelon have seen some of history’s bloodiest battles. Egyptian pharaohs, Roman legions, British troops, and Israeli tanks all have struggled in the valley of Megiddo. Prior to the second coming of Christ, all nations of the earth shall be gathered together to battle against Jerusalem. This tremendous war, one of the final great events prior to the Savior’s second coming, has been foreseen and described in detail by many of the Lord’s ancient prophets. (See, for example, Ezekiel 38 , 39 ; Joel 2 , 3 ; Isaiah 34 ; Jeremiah 25 ; Daniel 11 , 12 ; Zechariah 12–14 .) Jerusalem will be under siege and great suffering will be the lot of her inhabitants. Evidently, Armageddon, which is north of Jerusalem, will be the site of the great decisive battle of this war. “During this siege, when the nations are gathered and the Lord comes, there will be great destruction. The armies will become so confused they will fight among themselves. There will be great slaughter. Then the Lord comes to the Jews. He shows Himself. He calls upon them to come and examine His hands and His feet, and they say, ‘What are these wounds?’ And He answers them, ‘These are the wounds with which I was wounded in the house of my friends. I am Jesus Christ.’. . ."


Are you really LDS? I am starting to wonder.

[Russianwolfe]

Originally Posted by Billyray

So you don't believe in the battle of Armegeddon as described in the LDS Bible Dictionary even though it is written as clear as day. Fair enough. But I believe it is something you don't believe rather that something the LDS church doesn't teach.

And Biilyray, it is a teaching, not doctrine and not scripture.

Marvin

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Russianwolfe

And Biilyray, it is a teaching, not doctrine and not scripture.

Marvin

Actually it is a doctrine Marvin

[Russianwolfe]

Originally Posted by Billyray

http://ins***ute.lds.org/manuals/old...8-jer-ez-I.asp

Old Testament Student Manual
Enrichment I The Battle of Armageddon: A Prophetic View

". . .“At the very moment of the Second Coming of our Lord, ‘all nations’ shall be gathered ‘against Jerusalem to battle’ ( Zech. 11 ; 12 ; 13 ; 14 ), and the battle of Armageddon (obviously covering the entire area from Jerusalem to Megiddo, and perhaps more) will be in progress. As John expressed it, ‘the kings of the earth and of the whole world’ will be gathered ‘to the battle of that great day of God Almighty, . . . into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.’ Then Christ will ‘come as a thief,’ meaning unexpectedly, and the dramatic upheavals promised to accompany his return will take place. ( Rev. 16:14–21 .) It is incident to this battle of Armageddon that the Supper of the Great God shall take place ( Rev. 19:11–18 ), and it is the same battle described by Ezekiel as the war with Gog and Magog. ( Ezek. 38 ; 39 ; Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p. 45.)” ( Mormon Doctrine, p. 74.). . ."


BigJ are you sure you are really LDS? I am starting to have my doubts because your knowledge is quite limited.

That is s good one, you questioning her knowledge. The pot thinks the kettle is black when in fact, it is shiny, new.

She hasn't made the glaring mistakes you have made, especially your gaffe about the seals. She hasn't even said that it isn't a teaching or doctrine. She just has a different point of view. Nothing wrong with that. And it won't put her membership in jeopardy, no matter what judgemental types like you might say.

Marvin

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Russianwolfe

[SIZE="4"]That is s good one, you questioning her knowledge.

ere is what I said Marvin: "BigJ are you sure you are really LDS? I am starting to have my doubts because your knowledge is quite limited."

What about you Marvin don't you believe that there will be this last final battle?

[Billyray]

“O, Divine Redeemer”
NEAL A. MAXWELL
Of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles


". . .Yes, there will be wrenching polarization on this planet, but also the remarkable reunion with our colleagues in Christ from the City of Enoch. Yes, nation after nation will become a house divided, but more and more unifying Houses of the Lord will grace this planet. Yes, Armageddon lies ahead. But so does Adam-ondi-Ahman. . ."
http://www.lds.org/general-conferenc...eemer?lang=eng

[Russianwolfe]

Originally Posted by Billyray

ere is what I said Marvin: "BigJ are you sure you are really LDS? I am starting to have my doubts because your knowledge is quite limited."

What about you Marvin don't you believe that there will be this last final battle?

It dosesn't matter what I believe or don't believe. The fact is, you questioned her knowledge when she never denied knowledge nor did she contradict you what have been saying about this subject. She expressed that she has an open mind on how to understand the verses you two are arguing about. She said that there may be a spiritual battle and never denied that there would be a physical battle.

But of all people, to question her knowledge of things LSD after the gaffes you have pulled here, makes me laugh out loud. And you do so simply because she holds a different opinion than you do and you're the one who is suppose to NOT BELIEVE. LOL! LOL! !LOL!


Marvin

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Russianwolfe

It dosesn't matter what I believe or don't believe.

Sure it matters Marvin. That is what I was taught when I was LDS. If she was really LDS don't you think she would have been taught the same thing?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Russianwolfe

But of all people, to question her knowledge of things LSD after the gaffes you have pulled here, makes me laugh out loud.

Isn't that the whole point Marvin. She obvious holds views that are not held by LDS and she is lacking in knowledge that Mormnism teaches a last final battle. That is why I question whether or not she is LDS. BTW isn't this the same thing both you and BigJ have tried to pull on me not too many posts ago?

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Isn't that the whole point Marvin. She obvious holds views that are not held by LDS and she is lacking in knowledge that Mormnism teaches a last final battle. That is why I question whether or not she is LDS. BTW isn't this the same thing both you and BigJ have tried to pull on me not too many posts ago?

I still don't see ANYWHERE that states that this battle must needs be a is a physical battle in all of your postings. As noted, I stated when it comes to future prophecies, I keep an open mind as Christ was not understood correctly by those who read what they thought was plain. Why do you have a problem with that one Billyray? Or is this just a way to get away from the fact that you don't see any relevance to what happens in creation with what happens in this life or in the millenium?

(Did you just watch what happened in Wisconsin?--I would have called that a battle, would you? One side won, one side lost. There was a lot of money and effort that went into it. Billyray---I said, this battle MAY be a spiritual one...and that I am willing to keep my mind open when it comes to future prophecies. I don't want to make the mistake they did in old where they ***umed they knew exactly the mind of God and how things would take place. The problem was, when they didn't, they rejected the prophecies. I am not sure why you have a problem with this.)

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

I still don't see ANYWHERE that states that this battle must needs be a is a physical battle in all of your postings.

Of course you don't.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Of course you don't.

You seem to have a problem with those who remain open-minded about what a future prophecy possibly holds.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

You seem to have a problem with those who remain open-minded about what a future prophecy possibly holds.

Tell me exactly what is the battle of Armegeddon per Big.j's thinking especially since this thread is about LDS are their beliefs.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Billyray

So you don't believe in a literal battle just before the second coming of Christ?

Originally Posted by BigJulie

I believe the battle has been on-going and began before the earth began. So--what do you mean by literal battle? There is a literal battle right now between good and evil.

So you believe that the battle of Armegeddon is a battle that started before you were even born. Correct?

[Russianwolfe]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Sure it matters Marvin. That is what I was taught when I was LDS. If she was really LDS don't you think she would have been taught the same thing?

I question whether you were taught anything as an LDS. You seem to have a lot of misconceptions so it is more likely that you were taught by rumor and innuendo rather than attending seminary or ins***ute or paying any attention at all in Sunday School.

Julie has never said it wasn't a physical battle. All she has said (see her post below this one) that it may be a spiritual battle as well as a physical one.

You need to stop trying to force us to believe that which you no longer believe. We are active members of the church and are quite well versed in what we belive. You are a disaffected member who is losing a grip on what you no longer believe, probably because you are more interested learning what you believe than in your former belief. It is only natural to want to know more about what you do believe. Which means that what you no longer believe in is replaced by that which you no longer believe.

Marvin

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Tell me exactly what is the battle of Armegeddon per Big.j's thinking especially since this thread is about LDS are their beliefs.

As I have already said: 6. Battle of Armegeddon.

The battle between good and evil will continue and get worse and worse until the second coming.

I believe the battle has been on-going and began before the earth began. So--what do you mean by literal battle? There is a literal battle right now between good and evil.

Rev 12:7 ¶ And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

Rev 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

'

When you asked if there would be a "real battle"--I stated:

I don't think this really matters. I don't try to set God's words in the stone of my mind. The Pharisees rejected Christ because they had a picture in their minds of exactly what a Savior was supposed to look like and what He should do for them when in reality, they didn't understand it.

Likewise, when it comes to prophecies, I keep an open mind.

What is wrong with keeping an open mind about how this will play out Billyray?

You know Billyray, I think you are now to the point of just taunting. You don't like my answer and so you are just taunting. You demand there must be a physical battle. I state, maybe---but I will just keep an open mind so that I don't miss it when it comes as the Pharisees did with Christ.

[Russianwolfe]

Originally Posted by Billyray

So you believe that the battle of Armegeddon is a battle that started before you were even born. Correct?

Billyray, get a clue. Any time you have to end a statement with 'Correct?', more than likely it means that you expect to be contradicted. Usually you have twisted something and question what you have done.

I'll let Julie answer for herself, but for me, there is a war that started in the pre-existence and goes on today. Armegeddon will be the final battle of that war before the millenium. Then there will be the battle at the end of the millenium.

Marvin

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Russianwolfe

Billyray, get a clue. Any time you have to end a statement with 'Correct?', more than likely it means that you expect to be contradicted. Usually you have twisted something and question what you have done.

Here is her quote.

Originally Posted by BigJulie

I believe the battle has been on-going and began before the earth began. So--what do you mean by literal battle? There is a literal battle right now between good and evil.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Russianwolfe

Billyray, get a clue. Any time you have to end a statement with 'Correct?', more than likely it means that you expect to be contradicted. Usually you have twisted something and question what you have done.

I'll let Julie answer for herself, but for me, there is a war that started in the pre-existence and goes on today. Armegeddon will be the final battle of that war before the millenium. Then there will be the battle at the end of the millenium.

Marvin

Thank you Marvin. Now--Marvin, would you be upset if in the end, this big battle is a spiritual one? I mean, by definition, wouldn't even a physical battle be over a spiritual one?

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Here is her quote.

Which began with:

The battle between good and evil will continue and get worse and worse until the second coming.

[Russianwolfe]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Thank you Marvin. Now--Marvin, would you be upset if in the end, this big battle is a spiritual one? I mean, by definition, wouldn't even a physical battle be over a spiritual one?

Hey, the war in heaven was a spiritual battle. After all, we were all spirits then, weren't we?

Armageddon will be a spiritual battle involving physical and spiritual forces. Or would Christ's involvement in this battle be only on the physical level? I doubt that. Especially since the prophecies also say that it will take 18 months to bury the dead. And burial is a physical action.

While WWWI involved real (is the use of this word telling or not) and physical forces, it was also a spiritual battle in that it was a battle over principles like democracy vs. facism. And principles are more on the spiritual level than the physical level.

Marvin