Marvin do you believe that Joseph owned a Jupiter Talisman and carried it with him?Originally Posted by Russianwolfe
Marvin do you believe that Joseph owned a Jupiter Talisman and carried it with him?
No. And the evidence that I have provided, proves me right.
Marvin
“Impartiality is a pompous name for indifference, which is an elegant name for ignorance.”
– G. K. Chesterton, The Speaker, 12/15/00
I am not speaking about at the time of death I am asking you if you believe that Joseph owned and carried a Jupiter Talisman at any time during his life?
I forgot about that fact , I see now that the connection between smith and the magic rock fits in with the use of other magic things to try to see into the unknown.....
The only thing the seer stone helped Smith see into was his own imagination.. Not one thing Smith ever used his seer stone for ever had a positive outcome.. Early in his life he used it to locate buried treasure. All that did for him was get he called up on charges as a glasslooker. If he had found any treasure do you believe he would have been poor? Would he have had to take a job doing manual labor for others just to support himself? Knowing that it was all a FRAUD then why would anyone believe that such a stone could be used to translated ancient plates into a record of God's people from this continent? NOTHING FITS.. IHS jim
Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
Psalm 119:105
No, he never had a Jupiter Talisman.
Marvin
“Impartiality is a pompous name for indifference, which is an elegant name for ignorance.”
– G. K. Chesterton, The Speaker, 12/15/00
This is why I see a very real connection between the way the Mormon faith got going, and Scientology.
Both stem from a person with a great imagination who made an effort to write down things that they came up with.
While I do find fault with both Smith and Hubbard, I got to admit that they did come up with some catchy ideas.
...What did that term refer to?
What did they ever do with the magic seer stone?
A friend of Smith's, Martin Harris, lost the first 116 pages of the Book of Mormon manuscript. After which Smith stopped using the Urim and Thummim and used only the seer stone from that time forward.. It for all extensive purposes became the Urim and Thummim.. IHS jim
Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
Psalm 119:105
It is a person that looks into crystals or stones to get spiritual messages. That is just how Smith started using his.. To get information of the location of treasure from spirits.. IHS jim
Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
Psalm 119:105
The LDS church still owns it.. It is said to be locked in the Presidents of the church's office vault.. IHS jim
Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
Psalm 119:105
This sounds a lot like what the http://www.flickr.com/photos/tealfreenote/2806937738/ Gypsy Crystal Ball is used for in stories...
I see a lot of Gazing balls for sale, and I would guess they are rooted in the same concept that you speak of about Smith's seer stones.
Has it even been tested by science?
It's an ugly chocolate colored rock about as big as a hen's egg.. It's just a rock. There is nothing to test. It has already been tested by failing to give the truth when a question was given.
When the Book of Mormon was in the hands of the printer, more money was needed to finish the printing of it. We were waiting on Martin Harris who was doing his best to sell a part of his farm, in order to raise the necessary funds. After a time Hyrum Smith and others began to get impatient, thinking that Martin Harris was too slow and under transgression for not selling his land at once, even if at a great sacrifice. Brother Hyrum thought they should not wait any longer on Martin Harris, and that the money should be raised in some other way. Brother Hyrum was vexed with Brother Martin, and thought they should get the money by some means outside of him, and not let him have anything to do with the publication of the Book, or receiving any of the profits thereof if any profits should accrue.... Brother Hyrum said it had been suggested to him that some of the brethren might go to Toronto Canada, and sell the copy-right of the Book of Mormon for considerable money: and he persuaded Joseph to inquire of the Lord about it. Joseph concluded to do so. He had not yet given up the stone. Joseph looked into the hat in which he placed the stone, and received a revelation that some of the brethren should go to Toronto, Canada, and that they would sell the copy-right of the Book of Mormon. Hiram Page and Oliver Cowdery went to Toronto on this mission, but they failed entirely to sell the copyright, returning without any money. Joseph was at my father's house when they returned. I was there also, and am an eye witness to these facts.... Well, we were all in great trouble, and we asked Joseph how it was that he had received a revelation from the Lord for some brethren to go to Toronto and sell the copy-right, and the brethren had utterly failed in their undertaking. Joseph did not know how it was, so he enquired of the Lord about it, and behold the following revelation came through the stone: "Some revelations are of God: some revelations are of man: and some revelations are of the devil." So we see that the revelation to go to Toronto and sell the copy-right was not of God, but was of the devil or the heart of man (An Address To All Believers In Christ, 1887, pp. 30-31).
When we look to the scripture to tell us what kind of prophet gives a revelation from man or the devil, we see that the seer stone, and Smith as a prophet both fail to make the grade.
Deut 18:20-22
But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
IHS jim
Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
Psalm 119:105
So they (The Mormons) put their blind trust in a guy who says a pebble told him to sell some books out of town?
Thats the guy they put up?
and, that he twists his way out of blame for when things go bad by saying that his secret talking pebble is really the devil?
I mean really?....
You know......while this stuff about Smith's hidden "magic" past might make a humorous story in , perhaps a bad SciFi book, it's yet hard for me to take any Mormons serious now the more I learn about their church's foundations....
In a word...no.I mean really?.
If you want to know about the church, don't ask critics who warp and sensationalize. That's like asking an atheist about Christianity.
I have an atheist friend who is fond of describing Christianity and the Bible as a book of fairytales and then proceeds to make fun of the stories in there, because they are so wildly ridiculous, from his perspective...I mean, a serpent talking to humans, God killing off the entire world, a man inside a giant fish, a talking donkey, people being raised from the dead, blood sacrifices....most religions can be made to sound perfectly ridiculous, if that's the critics intent.
There is all the Bible does it say that hearing God speak though animals is evil.. Does God insist that mankind is His creation and by that is He not allowed to give and take lives as He wills? I do NOT deny any of your atheist friend's fact that they teach as happening in the Bible.. They did happen.. I can and will defend each point.. The LDS are different they try to deny that these things happened within mormonism or the common practice of Joseph Smith.. Did he as reported by his scribes use the seer stone to "translate" the Golden Plates?, The answer is clear, He did use the same rock to do that work as he used to defraud men out of their money telling then that he could find gold and silver treasure.. being a Conman is NOT one of the fruits of the Holy Spirit.. Becoming involved in divination after saying that he saw God is not the standard practice of a real prophet of God.. After Moses was called to be God's prophet did he go out and become involved in the "many foolish errors, and displayed the weakness of youth, and the foibles of human nature; which, I am sorry to say, led me into divers temptations, offensive in the sight of God." NO! But from his own testimony that is just what Joseph Smith did.. I don't turn to Fairy Tales, or even unknowledgeable reports about what mormonism believes here.. I turn and report what they teach, both today and in their past. The past is important. After all it shown the kind of foundation mormonism is built on. I am sorry but that foundation is not Jesus but the shifting sand of Joseph Smith and Brigham Young..
So Libby the word is, YES! IHS jim
Last edited by James Banta; 08-03-2012 at 06:16 PM.
Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
Psalm 119:105
Did the pebble tell him to sell books out of town, yes or no?
What did James Banta's provided historical quote say had happened?
If the answer is "no" then we may have to look closer at what has been said by people like James Banta here as to what happened.
But...
But if the answer is "yes" (if the quote is correctly presented here) , then no matter what else you want to add to the story to put a better face on it, it's not really going to matter at that point to me.....For the case is more than made within the quote that this guy Smith is a nutty.
Last edited by alanmolstad; 08-02-2012 at 01:19 PM.
if they make fun of the Christian faith based on what appears for real in the Bible, that's fair....
I got no problem with that because while they may think the story is in error, they are sticking to what appears in black and white in the Text.
Thats different than making fun of Christians because you think they cant count to 6.....or making fun of Christians because our Bible says God flipped an aircraft carrier over the moon...
making fun of my faith based on things that are not in the Bible is not fair....it is wrong to do.
Thus if I stick to what another faith teaches when I speak out forcefully against it, then I do what is right.
If I add to what the other faith teaches, so that Im saying things they dont teach, then i do what is wrong...
Thus is how we should look at all the many different religions and non-Christian CULTs....
We should stick to what they actually teach and believe, and compare it with what the Bible teaches....
So there is ZERO harm in seeking out past members of a CULT to learn what goes on inside the locked doors...
All you have to do is always stick to what the CULT really believes and teaches, what they really have said and done, and compare it with the Scriptures and you stand on firm ground when judging them....
Last edited by alanmolstad; 08-03-2012 at 03:13 AM.
You mean?
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