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Thread: One God and Father of all

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    Default One God and Father of all

    Ephesians4:4-6--"There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

    5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

    6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all."


    What is meant by "all" here in Ephesians when Paul refers to the "one God and Father of all"?

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    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post

    What is meant by "all" here in Ephesians when Paul refers to the "one God and Father of all"?
    All of God's creation.

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    dberrie----Ephesians4:4-6--"There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

    5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

    6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all."


    What is meant by "all" here in Ephesians when Paul refers to the "one God and Father of all"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    All of God's creation.

    Does that include all spirits also?

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    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    Does that include all spirits also?
    Jesus created you and me and angels and demons. Is that what you are asking?

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    dberrie----Ephesians4:4-6--"There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

    5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

    6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all."


    What is meant by "all" here in Ephesians when Paul refers to the "one God and Father of all"?

    Originally Posted by Billyray View Post---All of God's creation.

    dberrie---Does that include all spirits also?

    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    Jesus created you and me and angels and demons. Is that what you are asking?

    Oh? So you believe that the "Father" here in Ephesians is Jesus Christ?


    Ephesians4:5-6---"One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

    6 One God and Father of all,"


    Who is the "one Lord" here?

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    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    Oh? So you believe that the "Father" here in Ephesians is Jesus Christ?
    No. The Father is the Father.

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    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    Ephesians4:5-6---"One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

    6 One God and Father of all,"
    You didn't answer my question.

    Jesus created you and me and angels and demons. Is that what you are asking?

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    Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    Ephesians4:5-6---"One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

    6 One God and Father of all,"


    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    You didn't answer my question.

    Jesus created you and me and angels and demons. Is that what you are asking?
    More boundary maintenance to a faith alone theology.

    Ephesians does not state that Jesus was the God and Father of all--that points to God the Father--not Jesus Christ:

    St John20:17--"Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God."

    If your postulation that the "one God and Father of all" is a reference to Christ--then that is a direct contradiction to what Christ declared.

    The fact is--the scriptures state that all spirits were Fathered by God the Father--not Jesus Christ:

    Hebrews12:9--"Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?"

    Is that some spirits--or all spirits?

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    James Banta
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    More boundary maintenance to a faith alone theology.

    Ephesians does not state that Jesus was the God and Father of all--that points to God the Father--not Jesus Christ:

    St John20:17--"Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God."

    If your postulation that the "one God and Father of all" is a reference to Christ--then that is a direct contradiction to what Christ declared.

    The fact is--the scriptures state that all spirits were Fathered by God the Father--not Jesus Christ:

    Hebrews12:9--"Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?"

    Is that some spirits--or all spirits?
    Do you deny that God is the the Father of all? Do you deny that Jesus is called the Mighty God the Everlasting Father? Why can't the same thing be said of Him at all time is all meaning? You are again taking the word out of context of the complete Biblical text.. Do you also deny the context that Jesus is God? That He created ALL thing both visible and invisible? What is there about the Bible you will not deny in your false doctrines? IHS jim

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    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    The fact is--the scriptures state that all spirits were Fathered by God the Father--not Jesus Christ:
    The scriptures say let "US" make man in our image and it says in the NT that Jesus made all things viable and invisible. So you are wrong. Agree?

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    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    Hebrews12:9--"Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?"

    Is that some spirits--or all spirits?
    Jesus is the creator of all spirits but this section of scripture is specifically referring to believers.

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    James Banta
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    Jesus is the creator of all spirits but this section of scripture is specifically referring to believers.
    AND the scripture does call Him the mighty God, the everlasting Father.. IHS jim

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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    Jesus is the creator of all spirits but this section of scripture is specifically referring to believers.
    Cite, please. Please give any scripture that specifically gives Jesus Christ as the Father of spirits.

    There is but one specific designation of the Father of spirits--and that is God the Father.

    And the spirits were Fathered before they were believers. The spirit came first.


    So--if Jesus Christ created all spirits--then could you explain the explanation of Christ:


    John20:17--"Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God."


    If that is true--then Christ was not the Father of those spirits--but His God and Father was--God the Father.


    And if this scripture is true--then none of the spirits were Fathered by Christ:



    Ephesians4:4-6--"There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

    5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

    6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all."

    If Christ deferred to His God and Father as the Father of Himself and His brethren--then that means that at least some of the spirits He was not the Father of.

    And as Ephesians states that God the Father was the Father of all--that puts all the spirits as being Fathered by God the Father. Jesus Christ is exempted from any responsibility there, if that is true, seeing that Christ has already stated that both He and His brethren were Fathered by His God and Father.

    That means the "one God and Father of all" must be a title to God the Father only.

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    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    Cite, please. Please give any scripture that specifically gives Jesus Christ as the Father of spirits.
    Colossians 1:16*For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    Colossians 1:16*For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.

    John 1:3---King James Version (KJV)

    3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

    Obviously--some things were not made. For example--Christ did not make His God and Father. That is a power in heaven--right?

    Neither did He made the spirits:


    John 20:17---King James Version (KJV)


    17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.


    If Christ had a God and Father that was the same God and Father of men--then Christ did not make them either.

    But the scriptures do identify who did Father the spirits:


    Hebrews 12:9----King James Version (KJV)


    9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

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    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    Obviously--some things were not made. For example--Christ did not make His God and Father. That is a power in heaven--right?
    Right Jesus did not make the Father because the single God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) have been eternally God. But I assume that you believe that Jesus has made everything both visible and invisible. Right?

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    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    Neither did He made the spirits:
    And how did you come to that conclusion?

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    Super Moderator alanmolstad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post

    What is meant by "all" here in Ephesians when Paul refers to the "one God and Father of all"?
    That all men have one God.
    That there is only one God.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    That all men have one God.
    That there is only one God.

    1 Corinthians 8:6---King James Version (KJV)

    6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

    If there is but the "one God"--then it does not include Jesus Christ, in the NT Bible.

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    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    [
    If there is but the "one God"--then it does not include Jesus Christ, in the NT Bible.
    I still don't understand what point you are trying to make by this argument of yours. Could you explain it for me?

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    Super Moderator alanmolstad's Avatar
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    I was talking at the door with a JW on that verse...

    He was attempting to use this verse to prove that Jesus was not God, because it says there is but one God.

    But I pointed out that if the verse is teaching that ONLY the father is God and not the Son, then it also teaching that only Jesus is the Lord, because there is only ONE LORD!!!!


    and the Bible says that Jehovah is "Lord of Lords"

    "Therefore the Father cant be Jehovah" I told him.




    Unless.....



    Unless the way the Mormons and the JWs are attempting to use this verse is in error.( and thats the case by the way)

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    Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post

    That all men have one God.
    That there is only one God.

    1 Corinthians 8:6---King James Version (KJV)

    6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

    If there is but the "one God"--then it does not include Jesus Christ, in the NT Bible.
    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    I was talking at the door with a JW on that verse...

    He was attempting to use this verse to prove that Jesus was not God, because it says there is but one God.
    I do not think the Bible makes that point. Both Jesus and God the Father are Gods. The Bible just makes the point they are two different Gods.

    God the Father is the God of Jesus Christ. And the only one to ever be referred to as the "one God".

    But I pointed out that if the verse is teaching that ONLY the father is God and not the Son,
    But that is not true--the Bible has both Jesus Christ and His God as Gods--among a number of other gods.

    And the Bible has both God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ as Lord:


    Matthew 22:44--King James Version (KJV)

    44 The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?


    This is the Father's address to the Son--and shows they were two different Lords also.

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    Super Moderator alanmolstad's Avatar
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    The Bible says there is only one Lord...not 2....

    Just as the Bible says there is but one God, not 2.....or 3...or 36 and 1/2 billion....

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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    The Bible says there is only one Lord...not 2....
    The Bible states this:


    Matthew 22:44--King James Version (KJV)

    44 The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?

    Why would they split the Lords if there was not two of them?

    Just as the Bible says there is but one God, not 2.....or 3...or 36 and 1/2 billion....
    But the "one God" of the NT was never designated as Jesus Christ:


    Ephesians 4:4-6---King James Version (KJV)


    4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

    5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

    6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

  25. #25
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    But the "one God" of the NT was never designated as Jesus Christ:
    Which means what exactly in your mind?

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