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  1. #1
    Libby
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    Default "Heaven"

    A neurophysicist has been in the news, recently, recounting a near-death-experience he had, while in a coma (his brain was completely flat-lined).

    This man had a vague belief that there may be some kind of creator God, but he did not believe in a "personal God"...a God who loved or cared about individuals.

    So, he was in a coma, in a very serious, near death situation, with no brain waves showing, and he had this beautiful experience with God (a God of unconditional love), which totally changed his life.

    This is one of thousands of NDE's, all somewhat different.

    I read a book by a woman who had no belief in God, who became LDS, after an NDE, because of some things she experienced.


    http://www.amazon.com/Stand-All-Amaz.../dp/1890558273

    Very interesting book.

  2. #2
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libby View Post
    A neurophysicist has been in the news, recently, recounting a near-death-experience he had, while in a coma (his brain was completely flat-lined).
    The book is over 14 years old. What news was this recently in or are you posting this because the person was Mormon?

  3. #3
    Libby
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    Here's the story about the Neurosurgeon I was describing in the first post. This was in the news a few days ago.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_1951475.html

    A successful neurosurgeon, who has taught at Harvard Medical School and other universities, spent his life dismissing claims of heavenly out-of-body experiences and refuting such talk with scientific logic, until he himself had a near-death experience.

    During that time, Dr. Eben Alexander says he saw heaven and knows the afterlife exists. Now he's telling the world in his new book, "Proof of Heaven."

    Alexander's tale is the cover story on Newsweek's latest issue, which features the headline, "Heaven Is Real: A Doctor's Experience Of The Afterlife." Alexander, a Christian, claims he took the journey to the afterlife when he slipped into a coma in 2008 after contracting a very rare bacterial meningitis.

  4. #4
    Libby
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    This story includes a video about halfway down, with a short description of Dr. Alexander's experience.

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/newswee...afterlife.html

  5. #5
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libby View Post
    Here's the story about the Neurosurgeon I was describing in the first post. This was in the news a few days ago.
    But this is a new story and yet you linked to a story that was written 14 years ago. Why did you do that?

  6. #6
    Libby
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    Because it was ALSO an NDE and someone who had joined the LDS Church because of it. (this is the Mormonism board, right?) Plus, it's a book I had read, myself. I've actually read many books on NDE's. I find it a fascinating subject.

    So, do you have an opinion about NDE's (the ones I posted, in particular) or are you just here to har***?
    Last edited by Libby; 10-18-2012 at 12:56 PM.

  7. #7
    TheSword99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libby View Post
    Because it was ALSO an NDE and someone who had joined the LDS Church because of it. (this is the Mormonism board, right?) Plus, it's a book I had read, myself. I've actually read many books on NDE's. I find it a fascinating subject.

    So, do you have an opinion about NDE's (the ones I posted, in particular) or are you just here to har***?

    Hi Libby, I have read and heard about many NDE and more than few who were non believers became born again Christians.

    I would like to ask you something. Do you believe that all roads lead to heaven?

  8. #8
    Libby
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSword99 View Post
    Hi Libby, I have read and heard about many NDE and more than few who were non believers became born again Christians.
    Yes, it seems to touch those who have them very, very deeply.

    I've only read a few stories, and all have been from Christians. It would be interesting to hear NDE stories from other cultures.

    When I was around 14 years old, a man in our church (I grew up First Baptist) relayed a near death experience he had. His was very negative (or at least he perceived it that way). He was falling into a deep dark pit, with angels above him, singing. It was a terrifying experience. He did become a born again, after that, and went around to various churches telling of his experience...warning people, actually, that "hell" was a real place.

    I don't know what kind of life this man had led or what his beliefs were, previously, but I am guessing he was not a very nice person and that he probably believed he "might" go to hell, long before he had that experience.

    At any rate, it did seem to change his life for the better.

    I would like to ask you something. Do you believe that all roads lead to heaven?
    Ultimately, yes. That doesn't mean that every path we take is a "direct" route back to God. I think all of us wander (meander) quite a bit and have many, many experiences through, perhaps, millions of lifetimes....but we will all return to God, eventually.

  9. #9
    James Banta
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libby View Post
    Yes, it seems to touch those who have them very, very deeply.

    I've only read a few stories, and all have been from Christians. It would be interesting to hear NDE stories from other cultures.

    When I was around 14 years old, a man in our church (I grew up First Baptist) relayed a near death experience he had. His was very negative (or at least he perceived it that way). He was falling into a deep dark pit, with angels above him, singing. It was a terrifying experience. He did become a born again, after that, and went around to various churches telling of his experience...warning people, actually, that "hell" was a real place.

    I don't know what kind of life this man had led or what his beliefs were, previously, but I am guessing he was not a very nice person and that he probably believed he "might" go to hell, long before he had that experience.

    At any rate, it did seem to change his life for the better.



    Ultimately, yes. That doesn't mean that every path we take is a "direct" route back to God. I think all of us wander (meander) quite a bit and have many, many experiences through, perhaps, millions of lifetimes....but we will all return to God, eventually.
    There is no such thing as a path back to God.. There is a Way to God and that way is Jesus.. Anything other than He is a path to destruction. Unless you again put yourself above the Biblical record where Jesus tells us that there are only two paths; the wide road and the narrow path.. You have lost your way Libby.. It's time to put away all this eastern thinking and ways of men and come home to Jesus.. IHS jim

  10. #10
    TheSword99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libby View Post
    Yes, it seems to touch those who have them very, very deeply.

    I've only read a few stories, and all have been from Christians. It would be interesting to hear NDE stories from other cultures.

    When I was around 14 years old, a man in our church (I grew up First Baptist) relayed a near death experience he had. His was very negative (or at least he perceived it that way). He was falling into a deep dark pit, with angels above him, singing. It was a terrifying experience. He did become a born again, after that, and went around to various churches telling of his experience...warning people, actually, that "hell" was a real place.

    I don't know what kind of life this man had led or what his beliefs were, previously, but I am guessing he was not a very nice person and that he probably believed he "might" go to hell, long before he had that experience.

    At any rate, it did seem to change his life for the better.



    Ultimately, yes. That doesn't mean that every path we take is a "direct" route back to God. I think all of us wander (meander) quite a bit and have many, many experiences through, perhaps, millions of lifetimes....but we will all return to God, eventually.
    I have also heard and read the story of Bill Wiese who has a book ***led: "23 Minutes in Hell." He had an out of body experience I guess it's called and God showed him the horrors of hell. His book is a warning to those who think hell is just a myth or not a literal place, that it is very real just as the Holy Bible indicates.

  11. #11
    Libby
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSword99 View Post
    I have also heard and read the story of Bill Wiese who has a book ***led: "23 Minutes in Hell." He had an out of body experience I guess it's called and God showed him the horrors of hell. His book is a warning to those who think hell is just a myth or not a literal place, that it is very real just as the Holy Bible indicates.
    I think I have heard of this book, although, I haven't read it. Sounds like a similar story to the one I was told in church.

    I think most of these stories are, at least, somewhat related to what we already believe about heaven and hell. Have you ever heard of the concept that "thoughts are things"? Creating your own reality?

  12. #12
    TheSword99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libby View Post
    I think I have heard of this book, although, I haven't read it. Sounds like a similar story to the one I was told in church.

    I think most of these stories are, at least, somewhat related to what we already believe about heaven and hell. Have you ever heard of the concept that "thoughts are things"? Creating your own reality?

    So what are your views on hell? Do you believe it's a literal place? If so, who goes there?

    As for creating one's own reality, can't say I am familiar with it.

  13. #13
    Libby
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSword99 View Post
    So what are your views on hell? Do you believe it's a literal place? If so, who goes there?
    I believe hell can be as real as the life we are living, right now. But, I don't believe it is real in the sense that God sends people there for punishment. I don't believe a loving God would do that. We do it to ourselves, with our negative thinking. People can create all kinds of different hell, for themselves, with their thoughts and actions.

    As for creating one's own reality, can't say I am familiar with it.
    Creating our own reality is the crux of much of eastern thought and philosophy. It's really a very interesting subject. It fits in very nicely with psychology and sociology, as well.

  14. #14
    ActRaiser
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libby View Post
    I believe hell can be as real as the life we are living, right now. But, I don't believe it is real in the sense that God sends people there for punishment. I don't believe a loving God would do that. We do it to ourselves, with our negative thinking. People can create all kinds of different hell, for themselves, with their thoughts and actions.
    Creating our own reality is the crux of much of eastern thought and philosophy. It's really a very interesting subject. It fits in very nicely with psychology and sociology, as well.
    I think the problem is that people believe in Western thought or Eastern thought. The problem is, that there is only one kind of brain that Humans have. The brain of a person. A Japanese man is no more of a Klingon than an American is from the United Federation of Planets. Real life is not about Eastern or Western thought, it's about how we receive the revelations of God. In this instance, Father God has told everyone that he is here, that he made the world and that he wants us to know he's here, that he has a Son for us to accept and make our God and rescuer from our just punishment of Hell.

    There is no other way to have Eternal Life in the way God wants us to possess.

  15. #15
    Pa Pa
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSword99 View Post
    I have also heard and read the story of Bill Wiese who has a book ***led: "23 Minutes in Hell." He had an out of body experience I guess it's called and God showed him the horrors of hell. His book is a warning to those who think hell is just a myth or not a literal place, that it is very real just as the Holy Bible indicates.
    I saw this...do they have clocks in hell?

  16. #16
    TheSword99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pa Pa View Post
    I saw this...do they have clocks in hell?
    You didn't read the book. It was 3 AM and then the vision. When it was over, he looked at the time again. Doesn't matter if his vision was real or not, the Scriptures teaches that hell is very real.

  17. #17
    Pa Pa
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSword99 View Post
    You didn't read the book. It was 3 AM and then the vision. When it was over, he looked at the time again. Doesn't matter if his vision was real or not, the Scriptures teaches that hell is very real.
    So 23 min hell trip but no heaven trips?

  18. #18
    Snow Patrol
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    But this is a new story and yet you linked to a story that was written 14 years ago. Why did you do that?
    Who cares when the book was written? Why do critics of the LDS faith go back hundred plus years to look at things written? Because they are hypocrits?

  19. #19
    Libby
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    Yes, talk about "old news".

  20. #20
    Libby
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    The NDE and Pre-Birth
    Kevin Williams Research Conclusions

    It is not unusual for near-death experiencers returning from clinical death to report having received information concerning their pre-existence before they were conceived in the world. Some experiencers report of learning how they chose various aspects of their lives to be predestined before they were born. Some of the choices people have reported having chosen before birth include the selection of their birth parents, choosing their mission in life, and even choosing how they will die. This knowledge received by near-death experiencers of the past and future shows how some things in life are predestined while other things are not. It shows how free will and predestination both exist and work hand in hand. It means we choose our destiny in life before our birth into the world to live it. Because reincarnation is a concept found in many cultures and religions, the metaphor of life as a river which we chose before we were our birth, shows up in many of these cultures and religions. There are many aspects to a river which make it an excellent ****ogy to help us understand where we came from, where we're going, who we are, why we're here, and what life is all about. The following discussion will attempt to do just that.

    http://www.near-death.com/experiences/research01.html

  21. #21
    alanmolstad
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    As far as I can tell.....the whole idea is fake.

    I do not believe even one single story of all the ones claimed as true.
    It's like a guy saying a dream is real and trying to tell him that the dream was not real.

  22. #22
    alanmolstad
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    what kind of proof would I like to see?


    well....it's like this> I knew a lady that claimed to know the future.
    She was serious and would tell me she always knew what was going to happen.

    I said, "Prove it! give me the 6 numbers and the PowerBall and Im a believer!


    So far she has yet to come up with an answer to that challenge.

  23. #23
    Libby
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    As far as I can tell.....the whole idea is fake.

    I do not believe even one single story of all the ones claimed as true.
    It's like a guy saying a dream is real and trying to tell him that the dream was not real.
    Yeah, I understand. A lot of these people who had the NDE's (including the neurosurgeon mentioned above) didn't believe, before it happened to them, either.

    I used to be very skeptical of these kinds of things, myself, until I had some experiences of my own.

    The thing that is very convincing, in some of these stories, is that some were, technically, brain dead (no activity whatsoever), so it just seems unlikely that the experiences were coming, strictly, from brain "activity".

    I have read two stories where the people were "gone" for almost an hour. Elane Durham, whose story I mentioned above, was gone for, either an hour or just under. Her body was being prepped for the morgue, when she started coming back. Her body was stone cold and grey, and yet she made a complete recovery. Nothing short of a miracle, plus how was this happening in a brain showing no activity?

    I donno....I know some people are skeptical, but we don't know everything. Far from it.

  24. #24
    alanmolstad
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    the 'stories" are a little too much like stories of UFOs...LOL

    I reject them all....

  25. #25
    Libby
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    That's fine.

    I think I'll keep an open mind about them. Same for UFO's.

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