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Thread: "Heaven"

  1. #1
    Libby
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    Default "Heaven"

    A neurophysicist has been in the news, recently, recounting a near-death-experience he had, while in a coma (his brain was completely flat-lined).

    This man had a vague belief that there may be some kind of creator God, but he did not believe in a "personal God"...a God who loved or cared about individuals.

    So, he was in a coma, in a very serious, near death situation, with no brain waves showing, and he had this beautiful experience with God (a God of unconditional love), which totally changed his life.

    This is one of thousands of NDE's, all somewhat different.

    I read a book by a woman who had no belief in God, who became LDS, after an NDE, because of some things she experienced.


    http://www.amazon.com/Stand-All-Amaz.../dp/1890558273

    Very interesting book.

  2. #2
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libby View Post
    A neurophysicist has been in the news, recently, recounting a near-death-experience he had, while in a coma (his brain was completely flat-lined).
    The book is over 14 years old. What news was this recently in or are you posting this because the person was Mormon?

  3. #3
    Libby
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    Here's the story about the Neurosurgeon I was describing in the first post. This was in the news a few days ago.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_1951475.html

    A successful neurosurgeon, who has taught at Harvard Medical School and other universities, spent his life dismissing claims of heavenly out-of-body experiences and refuting such talk with scientific logic, until he himself had a near-death experience.

    During that time, Dr. Eben Alexander says he saw heaven and knows the afterlife exists. Now he's telling the world in his new book, "Proof of Heaven."

    Alexander's tale is the cover story on Newsweek's latest issue, which features the headline, "Heaven Is Real: A Doctor's Experience Of The Afterlife." Alexander, a Christian, claims he took the journey to the afterlife when he slipped into a coma in 2008 after contracting a very rare bacterial meningitis.

  4. #4
    Libby
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    This story includes a video about halfway down, with a short description of Dr. Alexander's experience.

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/newswee...afterlife.html

  5. #5
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libby View Post
    Here's the story about the Neurosurgeon I was describing in the first post. This was in the news a few days ago.
    But this is a new story and yet you linked to a story that was written 14 years ago. Why did you do that?

  6. #6
    Libby
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    Because it was ALSO an NDE and someone who had joined the LDS Church because of it. (this is the Mormonism board, right?) Plus, it's a book I had read, myself. I've actually read many books on NDE's. I find it a fascinating subject.

    So, do you have an opinion about NDE's (the ones I posted, in particular) or are you just here to har***?
    Last edited by Libby; 10-18-2012 at 12:56 PM.

  7. #7
    Snow Patrol
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    But this is a new story and yet you linked to a story that was written 14 years ago. Why did you do that?
    Who cares when the book was written? Why do critics of the LDS faith go back hundred plus years to look at things written? Because they are hypocrits?

  8. #8
    Libby
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    Yes, talk about "old news".

  9. #9
    Libby
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    The NDE and Pre-Birth
    Kevin Williams Research Conclusions

    It is not unusual for near-death experiencers returning from clinical death to report having received information concerning their pre-existence before they were conceived in the world. Some experiencers report of learning how they chose various aspects of their lives to be predestined before they were born. Some of the choices people have reported having chosen before birth include the selection of their birth parents, choosing their mission in life, and even choosing how they will die. This knowledge received by near-death experiencers of the past and future shows how some things in life are predestined while other things are not. It shows how free will and predestination both exist and work hand in hand. It means we choose our destiny in life before our birth into the world to live it. Because reincarnation is a concept found in many cultures and religions, the metaphor of life as a river which we chose before we were our birth, shows up in many of these cultures and religions. There are many aspects to a river which make it an excellent ****ogy to help us understand where we came from, where we're going, who we are, why we're here, and what life is all about. The following discussion will attempt to do just that.

    http://www.near-death.com/experiences/research01.html

  10. #10
    alanmolstad
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    As far as I can tell.....the whole idea is fake.

    I do not believe even one single story of all the ones claimed as true.
    It's like a guy saying a dream is real and trying to tell him that the dream was not real.

  11. #11
    alanmolstad
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    what kind of proof would I like to see?


    well....it's like this> I knew a lady that claimed to know the future.
    She was serious and would tell me she always knew what was going to happen.

    I said, "Prove it! give me the 6 numbers and the PowerBall and Im a believer!


    So far she has yet to come up with an answer to that challenge.

  12. #12
    Libby
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    As far as I can tell.....the whole idea is fake.

    I do not believe even one single story of all the ones claimed as true.
    It's like a guy saying a dream is real and trying to tell him that the dream was not real.
    Yeah, I understand. A lot of these people who had the NDE's (including the neurosurgeon mentioned above) didn't believe, before it happened to them, either.

    I used to be very skeptical of these kinds of things, myself, until I had some experiences of my own.

    The thing that is very convincing, in some of these stories, is that some were, technically, brain dead (no activity whatsoever), so it just seems unlikely that the experiences were coming, strictly, from brain "activity".

    I have read two stories where the people were "gone" for almost an hour. Elane Durham, whose story I mentioned above, was gone for, either an hour or just under. Her body was being prepped for the morgue, when she started coming back. Her body was stone cold and grey, and yet she made a complete recovery. Nothing short of a miracle, plus how was this happening in a brain showing no activity?

    I donno....I know some people are skeptical, but we don't know everything. Far from it.

  13. #13
    alanmolstad
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    the 'stories" are a little too much like stories of UFOs...LOL

    I reject them all....

  14. #14
    Libby
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    That's fine.

    I think I'll keep an open mind about them. Same for UFO's.

  15. #15
    alanmolstad
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    both are fake in my book...

  16. #16
    Libby
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    Further ruminations from the article above.

    Life is Like a River Flowing Back to the Sea

    If our experience as a human is ****ogous to a journey down a river, then our experience as a spirit is ****ogous to the entire water cycle. Each of us is like a raindrop which fell from a cloud and ultimately entered into a river for the journey back from where it came - the sea. Then the cycle is repeated.

    In the same way that a drop of water is a part of the sea and contains within itself the nature of the sea itself, so our spirit is a part of God containing within it the Whole of God itself. This concept of a something being both a part and the Whole is called in science terminology a fractal.

  17. #17
    Libby
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    I think I'm going to share some of Elane's experiences (taken from her book, "I Stand All Amazed"). Elane's NDE eventually led her into the LDS Church, but she doesn't seem to believe that is "everyone's" path.

    Comments from Elane, in the beginning of the book:

    What you are about to read is a very personal facet of my life, an ongoing series of experiences that began with a Near-Death Experience or Death Vision, and concluded with my conversion to a deeper and more spiritual walk with Christ. These experiences have been as surprising to me as they may be to you. I did not seek them, at least in the format in which they came, yet neither can I deny them. They are more real to me than life itself, and more precious, consequently my life has been forever changed.

    Despite this, I do not believe my experiences should be the same as those of any other person. They have been mine alone, tailored by God to my individual and specific needs, and I alone am accountable to God for them and for my responses to them. In the years since my death vision I have interviewed hundreds and hundreds of other experiencers, and I have never found any two of their experiences to be exactly alike, nor any to be like my own. Neither have any two experiencers reacted exactly the same to them. To me this is nothing more than wonderful evidence of the kindness of God as He deals with each of His highly individualistic children on our own levels.

    Though I have been sharing portions of my death vision and subsequent life's experiences constantly since 1976,1 am still looking for the best way, using the English language, of explaining them or putting them into words. To this point, at least, my attempts feel inadequate, and I am chagrined by this weakness. Yet from that instant when I entered into the presence of my Lord Jesus Christ and felt His overwhelming love, I knew that it was my responsibility to share that love with others. There are many ways of doing this, of course, and I have tried as many as I can think of. One of the most effective, however, has been to share those portions of my experience I am able to articulate and feel comfortable about sharing. Hence, this book.

    Beyond the fact that these things did happen to me, and that I feel commissioned to share Christ's love as well and as often as I can, I make no further claims. I am neither a proselytizing missionary nor a religious or scriptural scholar. Much of what I saw and learned I still do not understand, and some of it I still cannot discuss with others. More, while I have finally found personal peace and a church organization that fills my spiritual needs, I refuse to declare that others must take the same steps I have taken to find their own peace and spiritual fulfillment. As God's children we are highly individualistic beings, and I believe we each have the right to approach Him in whatever manner feels to us most comfortable, and even to not approach Him at all if that is our choice. What you are about to read, therefore, is merely a part of my own experience, my own attempts to interpret it and live according to it, and the results of those attempts. I have written it in as true and accurate a manner as I am able, and my great and only hope is that you who read may feel, as I have, the pure and overwhelming love that God has for each of us. —Elane Durham vii

    Durham, Elane (1998-01-08). I Stand All Amazed (Kindle Locations 43-52). Granite Publishing and Distribution. Kindle Edition.

  18. #18
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libby View Post
    Comments from Elane, in the beginning of the book:

    ". . .More, while I have finally found personal peace and a church organization that fills my spiritual needs, I refuse to declare that others must take the same steps I have taken to find their own peace and spiritual fulfillment. . . "

    It seems like the reason you are sharing this is that you believe that Elaine is teaching that there are many ways to heaven and it doesn't really matter what path you take as long as you end up in the same destination.

  19. #19
    Libby
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    I'm sharing because I find her experiences interesting, Billy. Believe as you will.

    Edit: Btw, she spells her name Elane (that was not a typo)..

  20. #20
    Libby
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    Circumstances leading up to Elane's death experience:

    She was in a hotel room, at a convention for work, sharing a room with a friend, when the following occurred.

    A M***IVE HEADACHE

    For what I thought was a cold with a severe headache that had been nagging at me for at least half of the three-week floral-design course, I'd left opened but untouched the bottle of cold pills I'd bought a few hours earlier. It was Wednesday, October 20,1 had been in cl*** steadily for two and a half weeks, and I was utterly exhausted from the grueling schedule. Now, with only three days left, I steeled my mind against my blinding headache and the terrible cramps in my legs and feet that had been partially immobilizing me, and willed myself to go to sleep. I had already showered, hoping to ease my discomfort with the hot water. But now it was 11:40 p.m., and I was feeling worse than ever.

    A STRANGE DEVELOPMENT

    I knew that Rhonda could tell I was suffering, for our beds were beside each other, but I tried to endure silently so she could get her much-needed rest. I recall rolling onto my back trying to get comfortable, and the next thing I remember was Rhonda standing over me, hysterically crying, “Elane! Elane, are you okay?“

    Feeling shocked because of her excitement, I responded, “I'm alright. What's the matter?”

    “You scared me.” She paused, and then said, “You were thrashing all over the bed and making strange, gurgling noises, and you have blood on your face.”

    Unaware that I had experienced the first of what would turn out to be in excess of eleven seizures spread over the next hour, I got out of bed and went into the bathroom. There I saw in the mirror that I had bit my lip and tongue in several places. Trying to calm Rhonda down I told her I was fine and that I'd probably had some crazy dream. As I tried to re***ure her I climbed back into bed and reached to pull my covers up over me, at which time she began to scream again. Only this time her voice faded from my hearing, and I knew nothing.
    Last edited by Libby; 10-19-2012 at 11:49 AM.

  21. #21
    Libby
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    My next memory is of being wheeled into the emergency room, only for some reason I was watching it all as though I were walking beside myself, on the right side of the gurney, and not lying on the gurney looking up.

    IN THE EMERGENCY ROOM

    In the emergency room there was sudden m*** confusion, with men and women scurrying about and people shouting back and forth that I was a probable overdose and was in full arrest. I now know this meant my heart had stopped—I had gone into full cardiac arrest. I was aware that the clock on the wall read 12:40 a.m. I remember them tipping my head back and forcefully shoving something into my mouth and throat to clear an airway. I remember watching as a nurse brought what I later learned were big-bore angio-catheters to place in the pits of my elbows and in the jugular vein in my neck. I remember wondering where they were going to put those huge things, though I have no memory whatsoever of their inserting them. I remember a girl taking a blood sample from my left arm. And I remember orders being shouted back and forth and confirmations being yelled in return—there was just a great deal of hurried confusion.
    Durham, Elane (1998-01-08). I Stand All Amazed (Kindle Locations 262-270). Granite Publishing and Distribution. Kindle Edition.

  22. #22
    Libby
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    A meadow in a more beautiful world

    Suddenly i was alive and free, running across a most beautiful field. Down near the winding river that was flowing to my right, midst some trees and large rocks, a group of six or seven people were gathered, waiting for me. I “felt” with every part of who i am, someone amongst them say, “she'll soon be here.” another one, looking my way, exclaimed, “there she is!” and again, i “felt” this rather than heard it with my ears.

    As far as the eye could see there were white daisies, millions of them, scattered all through the gr***es that rolled off to my right toward the river and the people. And though the daisies were white there were colors everywhere, incredible and subtle hues of colors that i cannot even begin to describe.

    To my left a low hill rose with trees and shrubbery scattered across it. The trees, as well as the gr***es and flowers, had a spiritual life force all their own, and again, colors that were unbelievable. I savored a taste in my mouth that i can't begin to describe, though it was absolutely delicious. Music flowed lightly, a harmonious sound that is so hard to describe. It was like everything that existed, from the blades of gr*** to the water of the river, the trees and the earth; the life forces of all these, along with all that i myself was or had ever hoped to be, was somehow blended into a soft wafting melody that was not being played, exactly, but truly existed. Surely it was the most beautiful, peaceful music i had ever heard.

  23. #23
    dberrie2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libby View Post
    A meadow in a more beautiful world
    Hey--when can we go??????

  24. #24
    Libby
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    Hey--when can we go??????
    Sounds beautiful, doesn't it?

    I'll finish telling her story, later. There's more!

  25. #25
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libby View Post
    I'm sharing because I find her experiences interesting, Billy. Believe as you will.
    But you would agree with what she implies in her statement that many roads lead to heaven and it doesn't really matter how you get there as long as you end up in the same place. Right?

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