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Thread: "Heaven"

  1. #51
    Pa Pa
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Banta View Post
    Why would she talk about reincarnation? Seems to be Just as Biblical as 3 heavens.. Is mormonism going to add reincarnation to the 72 Section of the D&C? may as well add it then you would have one more reason to accept the teachings of men and not just rely on Smith's lies.. IHS jim
    So would your idea of a trip to heaven look like...clouds, God not caring what kind of man you have been. What would a Spirit who fills the universe look like? Any angels with bird wings?

  2. #52
    Libby
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Banta View Post
    Your post didn't say a word about three kingdoms. It didn't say she wasn't with Jesus (Who according to the Bible has taking His place at the right hand of the Father). You did say that she remembered former lives (Reincarnation). That is a part of mormonism now isn't it? NOT!! I don't understand what you saw her saying but it wasn't the same thing you communicated to me.. Strange that you thought she was seeing heaven when you started this thread.. After all you even called the thread "heaven".. I guess you didn't understand that you were saying, so was she in heaven or not? Stop trying to make it up as you go along and just say that you haven't any idea what you are talking about. IHS jim
    You are very confused, Jim. There was nothing about reincarnation in her book. She remembered a relationship with Jesus Christ in a "premortal life" (same as LDS believe). The "heavens" were pointed out, but she did not personally go there.

    Nothing on this thread is "made up". This is from a book about Elane Durham's "death experience". You might want to go back and actually read it. That should clear up some of your confusion.

  3. #53
    Pa Pa
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libby View Post
    You are very confused, Jim. There was nothing about reincarnation in her book. She remembered a relationship with Jesus Christ in a "premortal life" (same as LDS believe). The "heavens" were pointed out, but she did not personally go there.

    Nothing on this thread is "made up". This is from a book about Elane Durham's "death experience". You might want to go back and actually read it. That should clear up some of your confusion.
    If it does not fit his view...he can't see or believe.

  4. #54
    Libby
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    Well, I don't think James really wants to understand any of this...which is fine. We all have our agency.

    Will continue Elane's death experience, in just a minute.

  5. #55
    Libby
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    continued..................

    MY LORD JESUS CHRIST

    But that sure and certain knowledge of who Christ was, completely humbled me. I had always thought of myself as unworthy of any sort of communication with God, and yet here I was, being drawn into His presence. Even while it was happening I found myself struggling to believe, to comprehend that it was happening to me. I was actually in the presence of my Savior and my Redeemer, Jesus Christ! A LIFE' S REVIEW “What have you done for your fellow man?” He asked me then with His wordless communication, and instantly my entire life was before my eyes. It wasn't like I was seeing a movie, with scenes laid out in sequence. Instead it was somehow all at once, so that many different aspects of my life were laid out for me to see and contemplate all in the same instant. And in that same instant I chose, because of all the trauma and abuse I had experienced, to focus on every incident for which I felt guilt and shame. These, I was certain, would cause Him to release me and turn away

    A LIFE' S REVIEW

    What have you done for your fellow man?” He asked me then with His wordless communication, and instantly my entire life was before my eyes. It wasn't like I was seeing a movie, with scenes laid out in sequence. Instead it was somehow all at once, so that many different aspects of my life were laid out for me to see and contemplate all in the same instant. And in that same instant I chose, because of all the trauma and abuse I had experienced, to focus on every incident for which I felt guilt and shame. These, I was certain, would cause Him to release me and turn away from me. But no, that didn't happen. Instead he told me that every single aspect of my guilt and shame had either been forgiven by Him already because of my repentance, or had come about because of how I had been raised or treated, and had not, therefore, been of my choice. As I struggled to understand this He reminded me that I had never turned my back on God, but had daily sought Him, begging for forgiveness for the sins I had committed, and pleading for His presence in my life. Now, I realized abruptly, those prayers and pleadings were being answered.

    And then, wonder of all wonders, and in direct confirmation of His words, Christ raised his hand and somehow brought me instantly and completely into the light of His glory.

  6. #56
    James Banta
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pa Pa View Post
    If it does not fit his view...he can't see or believe.
    You won't like it... This person would get all this from the one being that is working to destroy the works of God.. He always leaves his "hoof prints" wherever he goes. I have seem teaching similar to mormonism is many of the nonchristian cults.. Those such as Urantia and Eckankar that have invented a whole other way to God than through Jesus.. What is being put forward here in nothing new, it is just being promoted through another messenger the source is the same. It is the father of lies.. IHS jim

  7. #57
    James Banta
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libby View Post
    You are very confused, Jim. There was nothing about reincarnation in her book. She remembered a relationship with Jesus Christ in a "premortal life" (same as LDS believe). The "heavens" were pointed out, but she did not personally go there.

    Nothing on this thread is "made up". This is from a book about Elane Durham's "death experience". You might want to go back and actually read it. That should clear up some of your confusion.
    You said that she had loved a life before this one.. I hear that saying we all lived such a life.. That is clearly reincarnation. Look at your post dated 10-18-2012, 04:10 PM. You are the one that brought up reincarnation. The Bible teaches that God created the spirits of man within him (Zech 12:1).. We started here and in faith by the grace of God we will continue with Him eternally.. Why is it that you are so willing to abandon the word of God and cling to new revelation that teaches against what we have already received? Now you are teaching this "Other" gospel.. Dear one don't you know the danger is doing that? Look at Gal 1:8-9.. It is so important the Holy Spirit gave it twice to Paul in the same breath.. And because I condemn this other gospel you again attack my mental health calling me confused because I challenge such lies as you have brought here.. IHS jim
    Last edited by James Banta; 10-23-2012 at 09:54 AM.

  8. #58
    dberrie2000
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    Originally Posted by Libby View Post--You are very confused, Jim. There was nothing about reincarnation in her book. She remembered a relationship with Jesus Christ in a "premortal life" (same as LDS believe). The "heavens" were pointed out, but she did not personally go there.

    Nothing on this thread is "made up". This is from a book about Elane Durham's "death experience". You might want to go back and actually read it. That should clear up some of your confusion.

    Quote Originally Posted by James Banta View Post
    You said that she had loved a life before this one.. I hear that saying we all lived such a life.. That is clearly reincarnation. Look at your post dated 10-18-2012, 04:10 PM. You are the one that brought up reincarnation. The Bible teaches that God created the spirits of man within him (Zech 12:1).. We started here and in faith by the grace of God we will continue with Him eternally.. Why is it that you are so willing to abandon the word of God and cling to new revelation that teaches against what we have already received? Now you are teaching this "Other" gospel.. Dear one don't you know the danger is doing that? Look at Gal 1:8-9.. It is so important the Holy Spirit gave it twice to Paul in the same breath.. And because I condemn this other gospel you again attack my mental health calling me confused because I challenge such lies as you have brought here.. IHS jim
    I don't necessarily see the relationship between being confused and mental health. Libby did not mention your mental health--only the point that you were confused about the facts. It could happen to any of us--even those with bright minds.

  9. #59
    James Banta
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    I don't necessarily see the relationship between being confused and mental health. Libby did not mention your mental health--only the point that you were confused about the facts. It could happen to any of us--even those with bright minds.
    Libby has attacked my mental health before. As always she attacks my ability to understand. before it was a claim that I had Alzheimer's (of course I should be able to remember that should I Libby). Why would not understanding her this time not be the same old charge against my mental health? I don't ask you to go through all the posts to see that, but you have fallen well behind in seeing her desire to paint me as a fool. This time too her comments were directly pointed at me personally not at just a misunderstanding.. Maybe you should stay out of conversations you know nothing about.. IHS jim

  10. #60
    dberrie2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Banta View Post
    Libby has attacked my mental health before. As always she attacks my ability to understand.
    I do also--but I don't believe that necessarily has anything to do with your mental health. All I know is--you don't seem to understand well--but I find that applicable to many of the faith alone.

    They avoid the reality of the scriptures. Their theologies are supported by the cover and cancel plots they rehe**** over and over.

  11. #61
    James Banta
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    I do also--but I don't believe that necessarily has anything to do with your mental health. All I know is--you don't seem to understand well--but I find that applicable to many of the faith alone.

    They avoid the reality of the scriptures. Their theologies are supported by the cover and cancel plots they rehe**** over and over.
    Just as I see you.. You can't seem to understand that If I have the righteousness of Jesus that I am 100% obedient to the Father through that imputed righteousness.. I am starting to wonder if English is your first language.. I have shown you the authority of the scripture.. you don't bother to question it. All you do is run back to the same verses that speak of obedience.. You haven't even tried to tell me that you are obedient yet yourself. If you are not then you will die in your sin.. Dying in your sin means the Lake of Fire.. Tell me how obedience can give someone God's grace when they (YOU) are not obedient.. IHS jim

  12. #62
    Libby
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Banta View Post
    Libby has attacked my mental health before. As always she attacks my ability to understand. before it was a claim that I had Alzheimer's (of course I should be able to remember that should I Libby). Why would not understanding her this time not be the same old charge against my mental health? I don't ask you to go through all the posts to see that, but you have fallen well behind in seeing her desire to paint me as a fool. This time too her comments were directly pointed at me personally not at just a misunderstanding.. Maybe you should stay out of conversations you know nothing about.. IHS jim
    More false accusations, Jim. sigh

    I have never accused you of having Alzheimers. I "one time" asked if you might not be suffering from cognitive dysfunction, due to your heart disease. You admitted that is a possibility, although, you did not think it was occurring just yet. I pretty much dropped it, at that. Your posts are, sometimes, very difficult to understand...and they often have many typos. I insinuated nothing about your "character", as you have mine, many, many times. You, also, constantly accuse people of not being able to understand, because they are not regenerated or whatever. You whine and complain about others insulting you MUCH MORE than anyone else on this board, and yet you are the number one name caller and insulter of others, on this board.

    As for reincarnation, I mentioned it once, in the beginning of this thread, in reference to a completely different story (NOT Elane's story). If you had been following along, in order, and with some thoughtfulness, you could have (probably) figured that out for yourself. But, you are so anxious to put me down or find fault, that you trip over yourself to do it (and usually trip yourself up, as well).

    So, now, I will continue with Elane's story. You don't have to read it, if you don't like it...that's fine. But, if you're going to make comments, please try and make them on something that pertains to what was actually posted. Thank you.

  13. #63
    Libby
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    Elane's story continued...............

    THE LOVE OF THE LORD JESUS CHRIST

    There are no words to adequately describe this, but somehow I realized that I had actually become a part of Christ's light. With incredible tenderness He made me part of His eternal presence, His eternal peace, and I felt a perfect joy such as I've never known, either before or since. I knew that my Lord knew me beyond anything I could ever imagine, and yet despite what He knew of me He loved me infinitely more than I could comprehend. The love I felt from Christ was the most powerful feeling I had ever experienced. It was absolutely overwhelming, and I knew if I had been in my physical body it would have left me powerless, and perhaps might even have destroyed me. There was heat ***ociated with it, too, a wonderful burning that swept through me again and again, like waves of comforting fire, cleansing me and purifying me so that I felt at peace being with Christ.

  14. #64
    Libby
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    continued..........

    FORGIVING MYSELF

    Being encircled within His love I was able, for the first time in my life, to completely forgive myself. I had to, for I could not in any way oppose how Christ felt about me. Unconditionally I was loved, completely had I been forgiven, and perfectly was I understood. And because His thoughts and understanding and love had somehow become my own, I was able to feel the same way about myself as He did. In my “review” I was shown all the times when I had acted indifferently or even cruelly toward my younger brother—the times I had let him take the blame for my childhood mischief, or the times I had hurt him in some other way. For instance, I remembered once when I had thrown a small block of wood off a stair railing and hit him, and had felt quite indifferent to his pain. Now I found myself experiencing his pain, his feelings of intimidation and all the insecurities he felt in having me as an older sister, and suddenly I understood him better, probably, than he had ever understood himself.

  15. #65
    Pa Pa
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Banta View Post
    You won't like it... This person would get all this from the one being that is working to destroy the works of God.. He always leaves his "hoof prints" wherever he goes. I have seem teaching similar to mormonism is many of the nonchristian cults.. Those such as Urantia and Eckankar that have invented a whole other way to God than through Jesus.. What is being put forward here in nothing new, it is just being promoted through another messenger the source is the same. It is the father of lies.. IHS jim
    I don't like you...this much is for sure. You know well the father of lies.

  16. #66
    Libby
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    continued...............

    THE LORD'S FORGIVENESS

    I also knew that it was because of my later efforts to love and nurture and protect him, as well as my other siblings when our family was suffering and finally disintegrating—and my constant prayers of repentance, that I now merited the Lord's complete forgiveness. For I was completely forgiven, and I knew it! In that context I was made aware that Christ knew and understood every single aspect of the incestuous abuse perpetrated upon me by my father. Yet I not only felt my Redeemer's complete love and acceptance of me in spite of this, for I could finally see absolutely that it had not been my fault—but I was also allowed to feel His unconditional love for my father, which gave me great peace.

  17. #67
    Pa Pa
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libby View Post
    continued...............
    All good parents forgive...and God is a perfect parent.
    Last edited by Pa Pa; 10-24-2012 at 03:44 PM.

  18. #68
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pa Pa View Post
    All good parents forgive...and God I'd a perfect parent.
    So do you think God will forgive mormons who worship false gods especially those who know better such as yourself?

  19. #69
    Pa Pa
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    So do you think God will forgive mormons who worship false gods especially those who know better such as yourself?
    Not a possibility...we know the truth.

  20. #70
    Libby
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    So do you think God will forgive mormons who worship false gods especially those who know better such as yourself?
    From reading Elane's story, God can forgive anything, especially, if it was done in ignorance or if the person shows regret (repentance).

    Why would a loving God hold someone responsible for doing something they didn't know was wrong, Billy? Especially, when they are trying their best to do what they believe is RIGHT...?

  21. #71
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libby View Post
    From reading Elane's story. . .
    This is the trouble with you Libby you seem to latch onto extra Biblical teachings and then reject sections of the Bible. That is why you have gotten so far off course.

  22. #72
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libby View Post
    Why would a loving God hold someone responsible for doing something they didn't know was wrong, Billy?
    Because they are sinners. Isn't it just to hold sinners responsible for what they have done?

    If a person committed a crime wouldn't it be just to hold that person responsible for the crime that he committed?

  23. #73
    Libby
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    Because they are sinners. Isn't it just to hold sinners responsible for what they have done?

    If a person committed a crime wouldn't it be just to hold that person responsible for the crime that he committed?
    Not if that person doesn't know any better, no. Even our human laws take mental condition and age into consideration. If someone doesn't have the capacity to understand what they are doing is wrong, they are treated very differently from someone who does have that capacity, and they are not held accountable for their actions. Most of the time they are given the help that they need (psychiatric help).

    Why would God be any less comp***ionate? As a matter of fact, God is considerably MORE comp***ionate, than man!

  24. #74
    Libby
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    This is the trouble with you Libby you seem to latch onto extra Biblical teachings and then reject sections of the Bible. That is why you have gotten so far off course.
    No, I don't "latch onto" anything. That is what you do. I look at everything and consider all of the possibilities. God is not just in the book that you cling to, Billy. God is everywhere! God is showing us things (wonderful things!) all the time! You just have to open your eyes and your mind!

  25. #75
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libby View Post
    Not if that person doesn't know any better, no. Even our human laws take mental condition and age into consideration.
    You know better. DB knows better. PaPa knows better.

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