"Heaven"

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Libby

You are wrong about this, Jim, and probably confusing me with someone else. I never said you had Alzheimer's. I know that you don't. My reference was to your heart disease only.

Then worry about a possible impending early death and leave my cognition out of your posts.. Remember I think you are even more confused than you believe I am.. After all every spiritual point I make here in based on Biblical reference.. A reference to Alzheimer's whether you remember making it or not is not in your area of expertise.. You are expert on extra biblical reference that counters the Biblical message.. IHS jim

[Libby]

Originally Posted by TheSword99

I have also heard and read the story of Bill Wiese who has a book ***led: "23 Minutes in Hell." He had an out of body experience I guess it's called and God showed him the horrors of hell. His book is a warning to those who think hell is just a myth or not a literal place, that it is very real just as the Holy Bible indicates.

I think I have heard of this book, although, I haven't read it. Sounds like a similar story to the one I was told in church.

I think most of these stories are, at least, somewhat related to what we already believe about heaven and hell. Have you ever heard of the concept that "thoughts are things"? Creating your own reality?

[Libby]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Then worry about a possible impending early death and leave my cognition out of your posts.. Remember I think you are even more confused than you believe I am.. After all every spiritual point I make here in based on Biblical reference.. A reference to Alzheimer's whether you remember making it or not is not in your area of expertise.. You are expert on extra biblical reference that counters the Biblical message.. IHS jim

I have made ONE reference to your "mental health", James, and you are making a huge mountain out of a molehill. Get over it, already!

You demean my intellect and character in nearly every post you make to me, but do you see me following you around whining about it all the time?! Get.over.it.

[TheSword99]

Originally Posted by Libby

I think I have heard of this book, although, I haven't read it. Sounds like a similar story to the one I was told in church.

I think most of these stories are, at least, somewhat related to what we already believe about heaven and hell. Have you ever heard of the concept that "thoughts are things"? Creating your own reality?

So what are your views on hell? Do you believe it's a literal place? If so, who goes there?

As for creating one's own reality, can't say I am familiar with it.

[ActRaiser]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Then you wouldn't "believe all of the Bible".

That's my point.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Libby

You were ***uming that I and Papa and DB had differing religious beliefs (different from yours),

You do have different beliefs and you worship a false god.

Originally Posted by Libby

You seem to believe we are headed for hell, mainly, because we don't "believe" as you do.

Anyone who worships false gods can't possibly expect to go to heaven.

Originally Posted by Libby

I am asking you, why would we embrace beliefs that we don't really believe,

I believe that you do believe in false gods even though we have shown over and over again that the gods that mormons believe in are not the same as the God of the Bible.

Originally Posted by Libby

I believe what I believe, because I sincerely believe it's true (and have some experience to back it up).

I believe you when you say that what you believe is true and that the LDS believe that what they believe is true despite going over and over with you (proxy LDS) and them that their beliefs are not consistent with what the Bible teaches.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Libby

I have made ONE reference to your "mental health", James, and you are making a huge mountain out of a molehill. Get over it, already!

You demean my intellect and character in nearly every post you make to me, but do you see me following you around whining about it all the time?! Get.over.it.

Even if you will not admit the truth here that reference to my mental Health is outside your ability to diagnosis. If I called you crazy you would be all over the forum telling people about a personal attack I made against you.. I have already asked you to stop talking of these things you know nothing about.. I will have the last word here Libby you have the first.. I think questioning my mental facilities is a serious attack and it will NOT STAND.. Apologize for making a judgment you have no right or training to make.. This is a huge mountain to me.. My wife worked in a nursing home I saw many that had have a Doctor confirm a lack of mental health.. Therefore I take this as a serious personal attack. It is no molehill.. That is often how a offender feels about the crime they commit.. They often believe that the state is making a mountain out of a molehill.. These "Molehills" often hurt other people deeply.. I will not get over this until you either leave this forum or apologize..

I do point out that you are often wrong in believing what your heart tells you is truth instead if relaying on God through His word.. I am sorry if it has been more than that.. I know that the personal attacks that many here have pointed at me I did get mean for a while.. I will continue pointing out when in your defense of mormonism you make unbiblical remarks but like you have said those ARE JUST YOUR OPINIONS.. I will still warn you that your opinions are out of step with God's word.. You are free to reject His message and go your own way.. I am sorry for the unchristian remarks I have made.. IHS jim

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by ActRaiser

That's my point.

Here is your post

Originally Posted by ActRaiser

The real irony of this is you can believe all of the Bible and disagree with Jesus being THE way to Heaven and you'd still be going straight to Hell.

But the Bible teaches that Jesus is the way thus if you don't believe that then you don't believe all of the Bible.

[ActRaiser]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Here is your post

But the Bible teaches that Jesus is the way thus if you don't believe that then you don't believe all of the Bible.

I was kind of saying that there's a lot in the Bible that scripturally points out that Jesus is the Way to Heaven. So if you "Don't believe some of it" you don't believe "ALOT" of it.

Sure you might agree with the Ten Commandments or believe alot of it. But if you don't believe Jesus as the Way to get to Heaven, that's a whole chunk of it you don't believe in.

Originally Posted by Billyray
God's work is in the Bible and yet you disregard large chunks of it because you don't like what God has to say

See?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by ActRaiser

Sure you might agree with the Ten Commandments or believe alot of it. But if you don't believe Jesus as the Way to get to Heaven, that's a whole chunk of it you don't believe in.

I guess I misunderstood what you said because that is what Libby and LDS do in that they believe some of the Bible but ignore large chunks of it that is inconsistent with their beliefs. Is that what you meant? Anyway sorry if I misunderstood you.

[ActRaiser]

Originally Posted by Billyray

I guess I misunderstood what you said because that is what Libby and LDS do in that they believe some of the Bible but ignore large chunks of it that is inconsistent with their beliefs. Is that what you meant? Anyway sorry if I misunderstood you.

Yeah, that's what I meant. There's "Some" And then theres' "Alot".

[Libby]

Originally Posted by TheSword99

So what are your views on hell? Do you believe it's a literal place? If so, who goes there?

I believe hell can be as real as the life we are living, right now. But, I don't believe it is real in the sense that God sends people there for punishment. I don't believe a loving God would do that. We do it to ourselves, with our negative thinking. People can create all kinds of different hell, for themselves, with their thoughts and actions.

As for creating one's own reality, can't say I am familiar with it.

Creating our own reality is the crux of much of eastern thought and philosophy. It's really a very interesting subject. It fits in very nicely with psychology and sociology, as well.

[ActRaiser]

Originally Posted by Libby

I believe hell can be as real as the life we are living, right now. But, I don't believe it is real in the sense that God sends people there for punishment. I don't believe a loving God would do that. We do it to ourselves, with our negative thinking. People can create all kinds of different hell, for themselves, with their thoughts and actions.
Creating our own reality is the crux of much of eastern thought and philosophy. It's really a very interesting subject. It fits in very nicely with psychology and sociology, as well.

I think the problem is that people believe in Western thought or Eastern thought. The problem is, that there is only one kind of brain that Humans have. The brain of a person. A Japanese man is no more of a Klingon than an American is from the United Federation of Planets. Real life is not about Eastern or Western thought, it's about how we receive the revelations of God. In this instance, Father God has told everyone that he is here, that he made the world and that he wants us to know he's here, that he has a Son for us to accept and make our God and rescuer from our just punishment of Hell.

There is no other way to have Eternal Life in the way God wants us to possess.

[Libby]

Originally Posted by Billyray

You do have different beliefs and you worship a false god.

That's your opinion. I, of course, disagree that I worship a "false god". At least, not anymore so than anyone else. We all worship false gods, to some degree.

Anyone who worships false gods can't possibly expect to go to heaven.

I don't believe heaven is just "one place". There are many "heavens"....and many hells. None of them are permanent. Only life with God is eternal. We are all moving in that direction.

I believe that you do believe in false gods even though we have shown over and over again that the gods that mormons believe in are not the same as the God of the Bible.

There is only One God....expressing himself/herself/itself through many personalities....including mine and yours, at the very source of our being.

But, I do not "knowingly" (that's the key word here) worship "false gods".

I believe you when you say that what you believe is true and that the LDS believe that what they believe is true despite going over and over with you (proxy LDS) and them that their beliefs are not consistent with what the Bible teaches.

Then, why would you say we "know" we are doing something wrong? That was clearly a misstatement.

Again, one of the big problems with the Calvinistic system is that people are held accountable for things that even Calvinists don't believe they can really help. That just doesn't make good sense...not for humans and especially not for a loving God.

This is the kind of trouble people get into, when they try to believe that every word of the Bible is true (or non-contradictory).

God gave us intelligence for a reason.

The men who wrote the Bible were not infallible.

[ActRaiser]

Originally Posted by Libby

The men who wrote the Bible were not infallible.

One only needs to research the prophecies of the Bible to come to the proper conclusion that God wrote it. Men may not be infallible but they can't see the future either.

[Libby]

Originally Posted by ActRaiser

One only needs to research the prophecies of the Bible to come to the proper conclusion that God wrote it. Men may not be infallible but they can't see the future either.

I don't reject that, nor do I even reject most of the Bible. Just the parts that "insult my soul".

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Libby

I don't reject that, nor do I even reject most of the Bible. Just the parts that "insult my soul".

Libby you reject large chunks of the Bible. Don't kid anyone here.

[ActRaiser]

Originally Posted by Libby

I don't reject that, nor do I even reject most of the Bible. Just the parts that "insult my soul".

The word of God only sounds like insults to those who refuse to listen to it. If you feel bad about what God has to say to you, just react accordingly and repent. That's the only way you can see what God really has to say. God is a gentleman, he never insults anyone, without proper reason. In fact when God says "No one is righteous no not one". That's not an insult, it's a warning. God loved the whole world so much that he gave his only begotten Son so that whosoever believeth in Him should not die, but receive ever lasting life, but read on, the same p***age goes on to point out that whosoever does not believe in him is condemned already.

That's not God coming up to you in the street and dissin' you with some kind of a King James Busta Rhyme or calling your mother names, it's a warning. Warnings can sometimes feel like insults, but God's warnings always come from love.

[Libby]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Libby you reject large chunks of the Bible. Don't kid anyone here.

The Bible is a rather large book. I don't believe that I do reject "large chunks". Actually, much of the O.T. could very well be true history. But, some of what is attributed to God, I believe was actually of man. Especially, genocide and other murderous acts. I cannot believe a loving God commanded those acts to be perpetrated upon his very own creation.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Libby

That's your opinion. I, of course, disagree that I worship a "false god". At least, not anymore so than anyone else. We all worship false gods, to some degree.

No we don't all worship false gods, but and the Mormons certainly do.

We are given information about the God of the Bible yet you and Mormons reject what has been given to us. This is not an interpretation issue that I am speaking about but rather a flat out rejection of what is said.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Libby

The Bible is a rather large book. I don't believe that I do reject "large chunks". Actually, much of the O.T. could very well be true history. But, some of what is attributed to God, I believe was actually of man. Especially, genocide and other murderous acts. I cannot believe a loving God commanded those acts to be perpetrated upon his very own creation.

We could go over point after point on things that you outright reject. This is cettainly true for the OT as you noted above but it is true also for sections of the NT as well.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Libby

I don't believe heaven is just "one place". There are many "heavens"....and many hells. None of them are permanent. Only life with God is eternal. We are all moving in that direction.

You reject what the Bvle teaches abut God, what it teaches about salvation, what it teaches about Hell. Why even claim that you believe the Bible given the fact that you don't believe it?

[ActRaiser]

Originally Posted by Billyray

You reject what the Bvle teaches abut God, what it teaches about salvation, what it teaches about Hell. Why even claim that you believe the Bible given the fact that you don't believe it?

She's offline now. ::Le Sigh::

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Libby

Again, one of the big problems with the Calvinistic system is that people are held accountable for things that even Calvinists don't believe they can really help. That just doesn't make good sense...not for humans and especially not for a loving God.

Libby you throw around Calvinism as if I follow the individual Calvin. I follow what the Bible teaches not what an individual teaches. So now let's look at the issue that you brought up.

Libby
"Again, one of the big problems with the Calvinistic system is that people are held accountable for things that even Calvinists don't believe they can really help"

The Bible teaches us that we have a basic understanding of right and wrong and yet despite this we choose to sin despite knowing better. Is is wrong for God to punish those who break his laws when they know what they are doing is wrong?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Libby

Then, why would you say we "know" we are doing something wrong? That was clearly a misstatement. .

You know what the Bible says and you know that Mormonism is inconsistent with what is taught in the Bible. We have gone over this multiple times and I have proven this to you yet you still defend their beliefs. You know what they believe is wrong and at one time in your testimony you said that you knew it but now you try to justify their false beliefs. You know better.