"Heaven"

[Pa Pa]

Originally Posted by ActRaiser

I've got a Bible. And I've always understood this p***age as reffering to God judging those based on what their individual rewards in Heaven will be, not whether they get to Heaven in the first place.

Furthermore, the Bible condemns all occult activity. "Seer Stones" do not exist in Christianity.

From memory...be kind.

"I saw the dead both small and great gathered before the throne of God to be judged of their works...I think it might be Revelation 20: 7 or 22. Your comments about reward s smacks of LDS overtones. btw from Rev 5...what would a gold crown matter in heaven...can't spend it maybe that we will be made kings to rule over others...this is what said...never taught.

[TheSword99]

Originally Posted by ActRaiser

:Sigh:

Why do you believe that all holy things are magical or occult in origin?

Started with Joseph Smith who believed in the occult and seer stones.

[ActRaiser]

Originally Posted by Pa Pa

From memory...be kind.

"I saw the dead both small and great gathered before the throne of God to be judged of their works...I think it might be Revelation 20: 7 or 22. Your comments about reward s smacks of LDS overtones. btw from Rev 5...what would a gold crown matter in heaven...can't spend it maybe that we will be made kings to rule over others...this is what said...never taught.

No. LDS believe there are different Heavens that each follower can attain. Telestial Celestrial and Terrestial.

There's 3 Heavens, but those Heavens consist of the sky above the Earth, the sky above the stratosphere between the actual Heaven where God sits, and Heaven it'self.

Rewards in Heaven aren't specified but what is specified is that all those who earn rewards can be with those who have earned greater or lesser rewards at all times.

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by ActRaiser

No. LDS believe there are different Heavens that each follower can attain. Telestial Celestrial and Terrestial.

There's 3 Heavens, but those Heavens consist of the sky above the Earth, the sky above the stratosphere between the actual Heaven where God sits, and Heaven it'self.

Rewards in Heaven aren't specified but what is specified is that all those who earn rewards can be with those who have earned greater or lesser rewards at all times.

In my new religion, and a new revelation I just got from my imagainary god, he said if you join my religion and do all that I say, and pay 5% of your income to me, I mean my religion, I the new everylasting prophet of my imagainary god, will give you a free p*** that will allow you to travel from each of the LDS heavens, and for a 10% of your income to me, I mean my religion you will be allowed to pick up one or two of Brigham Young's throw away wifes to take with you, and if you join now I will double the offer by giving you a free p*** out of Hell at no extra cost, but you gotta join now!

[Libby]

Tonight, 20/20 had on the neurophyscist, I mentioned in the OP. He really does have quite an amazing story. Did anyone else see it?

This is the entire episode.

http://abc.go.com/watch/2020/SH55902...he-sixth-sense

[Pa Pa]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Did God nullify those verses?

No he provided them husbands and wives...

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Pa Pa

So looking forward to your "new name" and "white [seer] stone"...keep reading Jim...and then find out that you will be judged according to your works and not your "faith". All this from memory...how long did it take you...oh wait you have 17 more chapters in Revelation...did not ever have to look it up.

A seer stone? Really that is what you understand from that p***age in revelation? Your hermeneutics sucks! In the time this was composed a black stone was a symbol of guilt and a white stone of innocence. The p***age says we receive a white stone with a name on it that only we and God know. yes we will be judged by our works or the works that have been imputed to us (Romans 4:23-24). We either obey the commandment to be perfect or we will be judged and sin will be found in us and therefore all sin will be seen in us (James 2:10). The only way to p*** the judgment of God is to have the righteousness of Jesus as our own (2Cor 5:21). So what judgement is left for those that are in Christ Jesus?

You say you know the scripture but like all LDS you see only the judgement for sin but forget that you have not kept the whole of all His commandments. Therefore by the word of God you have condemned yourself. Read James 2:10 and see that no matter how much of the law you obey if you fail in just one point you become guilty of the whole Law.. Papa the fact of sin is that any disobedience must be punished. There is only one punishment and that is the Lake of Fire.. IHS jim

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Pa Pa

From memory...be kind.

"I saw the dead both small and great gathered before the throne of God to be judged of their works...I think it might be Revelation 20: 7 or 22. Your comments about reward s smacks of LDS overtones. btw from Rev 5...what would a gold crown matter in heaven...can't spend it maybe that we will be made kings to rule over others...this is what said...never taught.

It never said we rules over others and the crows are cast at His feet because only He is worthy.. Did you only see what you wanted from the p***age instead of what it says.. I used it to show you a glimpse of what heaven is. you are twisting it into what I don't know.. But to be sure it isn't what is being taught.. there are no LDS overtones in Rev 20.. There in that p***age it clearly states that only the DEAD STAND before the Great White Throne to be judged by their works.. The living are NOT THERE.. Read it don't just try to remember. You memory is faulty.. The dead don't stand do they? Unless these dead are only the spiritually dead.. I agree all these the spiritually dead will be judged by their works. All these will be cast into the Lake of Fire, because all these are guilty of sin and that sin makes them guilty of the whole of God's law.. They are DEAD in their Sin! Anymore all you see kn the scripture is the LDS garbage that is taught by people that have no idea what the scripture teaches.. That is proven by the misinterpretation of the white stone.. IHS jim

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Pa Pa

We just know to much about your "faith".

All you know is a sin that is confessed to God, the Church and the world.. You don't seem to know how God deals with sin at all..

1John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

The only one that would jump on this as still being my sin is Satan or those of Satan. Is that what you have become an agent of Satan.. Seems as though that is what you have become.. IHS jim

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Libby

My question about your "health" had absolutely nothing to do with your faith. I don't begrudge you your faith, such as it is...why would I?

Whether is does or not, you did attack my mental capacity because of my heart condition. A condition you have no expertise, license, or even ability to diagnose. So until you have gained a license as an MD and given me a proper examination i would say you have no right to second guess my Doctor in his opinions.. So stop your guesses and stay with your defense of mormonism and you fairy tales told by mormons to defend mormonism.. Fairy stories that contradict the teachings of the Bible.. the Bible teaches us that is it appoint ONCE for everyone to die and after that the judgment.. IT never says we can come back and then die again later.. Keep your anti bible nonsense to yourself.. And when you talk about reincarnation at least be honest that you have.. IHS jim

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Pa Pa

We just know to much about your "faith".

If that were the truth you would join me in that faith.. IHS jim

[alanmolstad]

Once again i ask..."Whats the topic here?......Oh yes, things dealing with "Heaven"


(so personal things dealing with each other should be avoided.)

Now, as for the TV news story about the guy who had seen something when he became very sick?......

My view of all such things is that "Its a great campfire story".....but not anything to take serious.

Its like stories about Bigfoot, or UFOs, or of seeing "visions" when on drugs, etc...

The human mind, and it's ability to confuse itself, to invent things it believe, to twist what it knows to help it understand things it does not know, is something you just have to keep at the top of the list or reasons why when looking into such claims.


So in other words....I dont believe such stories for a moment....

[Libby]

Jim, enough with the personal stuff. You are the one who keeps bringing it up and rehashing it. Just drop it.

Alan, if you had watched the video, you would know that this man had absolutely no brain activity, while he was experiencing all of this. He is a neurosurgeon and that fact was a big part of what convinced him that it was not just his "brain" tripping out. There was nothing going on in his brain and he has a copy of the Electroencephalograph that shows this.

Not only that, but his guide was a sister that he had never met (because he was adopted and she died, before he met any of his adopted family). Amazingly, he described her perfectly and drew a picture of her, before he even knew she existed. When he saw her picture, he recognized her, as the person who was his guide during his death experience and he had described her, perfectly, to other family members.

There were a lot of things about his death experience that just cannot be explained away by saying it was just a dream or his imaginings.

Not to say anyone has to believe, but I wouldn't so easily dismiss it. I think, if it's true, it's quite a wonderful thing. His description of "heaven" was glorious...including his encounter with the Divine.

[alanmolstad]

I would never bet the farm on that type of stuff...remember they can connect up to a pan of jello and get a reading of brain activity....so it's at best a unsustainable way to tell if a person is thinking or not....

[Russianwolfe]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

I would never bet the farm on that type of stuff...remember they can connect up to a pan of jello and get a reading of brain activity....so it's at best a unsustainable way to tell if a person is thinking or not....

Do you have a reference where we can read about this attempt to get a reading of brain activity?

Marvin

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Russianwolfe

Do you have a reference where we can read about this attempt to get a reading of brain activity?

Marvin

Ummm,,,,from the guy we are talking about or the jello?

[Libby]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

I would never bet the farm on that type of stuff...remember they can connect up to a pan of jello and get a reading of brain activity....so it's at best a unsustainable way to tell if a person is thinking or not....

I've never heard that. References?

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Russianwolfe

Do you have a reference where we can read about this attempt to get a reading of brain activity?

Marvin

http://www.***-facts.com/view/Facts/...=20417&c_val=2

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Libby

I've never heard that. References?

I first heard of this back when i was in school and the case of a girl named Karen Ann Quinlan that was said to be a hopeless case, yet still alive because it was hard to tell if she was "brain dead" by testing with EEG.

However it was pointed out that the use of EEG to tell if a person is alive or dead is way flawed in that many times you can get a flat-line reading only to see later the person was alive...and you can get a good reading when the subject being tested is jello.

http://www.***-facts.com/view/Facts/...=20417&c_val=2

[alanmolstad]

So what im saying is this:
Im saying that all the stories of people that say they have had a Near-Death Experience (NDE) are just confused.

They may well believe that they truly have seen something on the other side.

And I cant say 100% what they have truly seen or not seen.

But I can say that all the so-called "proof" that a NDE is real is just flawed science.

There is no trust-able proof of any NDE, and in that way it's a lot like the so-called proof of Bigfoot or for UFOs.


All this stuff makes a great story to tell around the camp fire...

[Pa Pa]

Originally Posted by TheSword99

Started with Joseph Smith who believed in the occult and seer stones.

Seer stones, new name started with John the Revealtor.

[Pa Pa]

Originally Posted by James Banta

If that were the truth you would join me in that faith.. IHS jim

Jim, I hate to say it, but I asked you your view of heaven, your one word answer in large type "Jesus" and no mention of your family...you have just found a new lover; the abuse continues. I cannot tell you the number of times Valerie has been in my prayers. My brother...please turn your heart toward home. Join me in the faith.

[alanmolstad]

the topic is not a personal one.....If you guys have this un-ending need to talk about each other's personal life, then do so on PMs.....and stop going off-track to this topic about "heaven"

Im simply not interested in personal bickering that is only aimed at causing harm and embarr***ment...

[alanmolstad]

Now stories on NDE are found a lot within the church.
The christian book store in your city likely has many books where people will tell a story of going to heaven or hell,,,seeing people long dead, and getting to talk with all kinds of beings.

Thats fine.
I got no problem with a person telling a great story.
And I got no problem if in the reading of such a story a reader takes from the story a healthy life lesson.

The problem I worry about is that a lot of people read these stroies and consider them more important than the bible itself.

There is a very real danger that such people place so much trust in a story of a NDE that they dont notice if the story goes off the rails and starts to teach things against the bible.


Thus, I dont trust any NDE story very much.
I consider them at most "entertaining"

[Pa Pa]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

the topic is not a personal one.....If you guys have this un-ending need to talk about each other's personal life, then do so on PMs.....and stop going off-track to this topic about "heaven"

Im simply not interested in personal bickering that is only aimed at causing harm and embarr***ment...

It is about the OP, when the OP was attacked I asked what do you see heaven as...got a one word answer "Jesus". So to the OP; how do you all see heaven looking like?