The Problem of Hell

[alanmolstad]

So it goes like this...

The human: "Lord, how can you say you love us, yet send billions of Mormons to burn forever in the fires of Hell?"

God : "Were you listening to the stars sing at the moment of creation as I was?"

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Libby

If all you can tell me is that I just need to believe the Bible exactly as interpreted by mainstream Christianity, then you really have nothing new to say to me.

But this is not what we are arguing about Libby--we are arguing the fact that you don't like the God that is taught in the Bible--this God does not meet your standards so you reject him and his word by saying that the Bible is false.

[cheachea]

Revelation 14:9-11

9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be Tormented with Fire and Brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their Torment ascends Forever and Ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”



Revelation 20:10

10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the Lake of Fire and Brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be Tormented Day and Night Forever and Ever.



Revelation 20:14-15

14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the Lake of Fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the Lake of Fire.

[Libby]

Originally Posted by Billyray

But this is not what we are arguing about Libby--we are arguing the fact that you don't like the God that is taught in the Bible--this God does not meet your standards so you reject him and his word by saying that the Bible is false.

Okay, have it your way, Billy.

I reject the Bible (even though I still read it, almost everyday).

[TheSword99]

Originally Posted by Libby

I can sure see why James was banned. He was being as condescending as ever. Those mods over there don't put up with much of that.

The creators of Wikipedia are the first to admit that not every entry is accurate and that it might not be the best source of material for research papers.

[TheSword99]

Originally Posted by Libby

We are all aware of the verses in the Bible that talk about hell, James.

This article from Wiki is a philosophical approach, which is more or less what I have used to come to some of my own conclusions about hell. You know logic...using your brain to engage some of these questions? You guys love to throw that around, when you're talking about Mormonism. Not so much, when it's your favorite beliefs and theories being thrown under the bus.

But that's the danger right there, Libby. You draw your own conclusions largely based on feelings instead of letting the Scriptures speak for themselves. Why would Christ warn about hell if there's nothing to worry about?

[TheSword99]

Originally Posted by James Banta

She doesn't need to quote the Bible she has Wikipedia.. IHS jim

It's amazing isn't it Jim, that the lds will go to great lengths to try and find support for their beliefs. Even running to church fathers as a last resort even though these men never taught anything like Mormonism. Why are they so against the Bible?

[TheSword99]

Originally Posted by Libby

I found this Wiki- article on the Philosophy of Religion that brings up many points, about hell, that I have pondered...and a big reason why I reject the concept of hell, as presented by most conservative Christians.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_Hell

Libby, let me ask you, do you believe in the lds version of outer darkness where the devil, the son of perdition and ex mormons (apostates like you and my wife) go?

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Libby

We are all aware of the verses in the Bible that talk about hell, James.

This article from Wiki is a philosophical approach, which is more or less what I have used to come to some of my own conclusions about hell. You know logic...using your brain to engage some of these questions? You guys love to throw that around, when you're talking about Mormonism. Not so much, when it's your favorite beliefs and theories being thrown under the bus.

Yes use your own heart and mind instead of trusting God, that us a great plan.. I am sorry for you Libby, really sorry.. You have deserted God for the idol of your own conclusions. If you wish to throw the Bible under your personal bus, please go ahead.. If you want to trash the Word of God, or God Himself for that matter you have that right.. I think you are wrong and will counter all your heartfelt thoughts with what God has said on the matters you bring up.. This is a forum that speaks to spiritual matters and this channel is to discuss the mormonism religion whether it is of man or God.. You unbiblical attacks on people that believe the Bible is unwelcome here since this is NOT the place for those attacks.. Go to the atheism channel and fill it is your hate for God..

You have gone down a long way since you left mormonism. You should consider going back and get some spiritual support. You have lost all your moorings and are totally adrift. As the Bible says you are being ****n about by ever wind of doctrine because you will not submit yourself to the teachings of God.. And someone as double mined as you have proven yourself to be has nothing to share here because I doubt that you know what you yourself believe.. May God bring you to Himself.. You are a constant subject of my prayers.. IHS jim

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Libby

Yes, and taking things literally that were not intended as literal would be one of those things that may "seem right unto man".

Everything you disagree with seems to be that which shouldn't be taken literally. That is your only way you can look at the scripture.. Nothing about God's righteousness, His insistence for perfection can be taken literally.. Only His live and acceptance is literal to you.. In your way of thinking Jesus was totally unnecessary.. After all God's justice isn't literal now is it? IHS jim

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Libby

I can sure see why James was banned. He was being as condescending as ever. Those mods over there don't put up with much of that.

But Libby NEVER makes personal attack does she... IHS jim

[Libby]

Not an attack. Just an observation. You know, like the "observations" you make about me, all the time.

[Libby]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Everything you disagree with seems to be that which shouldn't be taken literally. That is your only way you can look at the scripture.. Nothing about God's righteousness, His insistence for perfection can be taken literally.. Only His live and acceptance is literal to you.. In your way of thinking Jesus was totally unnecessary.. After all God's justice isn't literal now is it? IHS jim

I honestly don't understand what in the world you're trying to say, here.

At any rate, I don't believe that "Jesus is totally unnecessary". Far from it.

[Libby]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Yes use your own heart and mind instead of trusting God, that us a great plan.. I am sorry for you Libby, really sorry.. You have deserted God for the idol of your own conclusions. If you wish to throw the Bible under your personal bus, please go ahead.. If you want to trash the Word of God, or God Himself for that matter you have that right.. I think you are wrong and will counter all your heartfelt thoughts with what God has said on the matters you bring up.. This is a forum that speaks to spiritual matters and this channel is to discuss the mormonism religion whether it is of man or God.. You unbiblical attacks on people that believe the Bible is unwelcome here since this is NOT the place for those attacks.. Go to the atheism channel and fill it is your hate for God..

You have gone down a long way since you left mormonism. You should consider going back and get some spiritual support. You have lost all your moorings and are totally adrift. As the Bible says you are being ****n about by ever wind of doctrine because you will not submit yourself to the teachings of God.. And someone as double mined as you have proven yourself to be has nothing to share here because I doubt that you know what you yourself believe.. May God bring you to Himself.. You are a constant subject of my prayers.. IHS jim

Well, thank you for your prayers, James. You are in mine, as well...sincerely. Healing prayers.

You really do need to try to stop being so judgmental. It's truly not good for your health. Leave me and all others in God's hands. He is holding me tight, as he always has. There is nothing to worry about.

[Libby]

Originally Posted by TheSword99

Libby, let me ask you, do you believe in the lds version of outer darkness where the devil, the son of perdition and ex mormons (apostates like you and my wife) go?

No, I don't personally, believe there is any kind of hell, other than the hell of our own making. That is hell enough, don't you think?

[Libby]

I, sincerely, wish that someone would, at least, try to make their best case for why a loving and benevolent God would send "most" of his creation (his children, IMHO) to a fiery, burning, ETERNAL hell. Can anyone make sense of that? Are most of us really such horrible sinners that we deserve that kind of treatment....really??

Think about it.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Libby

I, sincerely, wish that someone would, at least, try to make their best case for why a loving and benevolent God would send "most" of his creation (his children, IMHO) to a fiery, burning, ETERNAL hell. Can anyone make sense of that? Are most of us really such horrible sinners that we deserve that kind of treatment....really??

We have already Libby. Didn't you read any of the posts?

[ActRaiser]

Originally Posted by Libby

I, sincerely, wish that someone would, at least, try to make their best case for why a loving and benevolent God would send "most" of his creation (his children, IMHO) to a fiery, burning, ETERNAL hell. Can anyone make sense of that? Are most of us really such horrible sinners that we deserve that kind of treatment....really??

Think about it.

Why should we think about something that's already been answered?

Those who break ONE of the commandments of God are guilty of breaking ALL Of them.

The answer to this dilemna came in the form of Jesus on the Cross, who rose from the dead three days later, because he needed to take the punishment on himself for the sins of the world in order to SAVE everyone who would believe in Him.

[Libby]

Okay, think about that, AR. Jesus on the cross for a limited amount of time, justifying ALL the sins of the world!

Juxtapose that against an ETERNAL punishment that is, at least, equivalent in pain...for the sins of ONE person.

How do you justify that?

Simply, "it's written in the book"?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Libby

Okay, think about that, AR. Jesus on the cross for a limited amount of time, justifying ALL the sins of the world!

Juxtapose that against an ETERNAL punishment that is, at least, equivalent in pain...for the sins of ONE person.

How do you justify that?

Simply, "it's written in the book"?

They broke God's law and derserve punishment. Look at criminals who break the law--they break it over a short time and yet they often pay for their crime until they die.

[ActRaiser]

Originally Posted by Libby

Okay, think about that, AR. Jesus on the cross for a limited amount of time, justifying ALL the sins of the world!

Juxtapose that against an ETERNAL punishment that is, at least, equivalent in pain...for the sins of ONE person.

How do you justify that?

Simply, "it's written in the book"?

Jesus didn't sin at ALL. That's the point. Jesus is God, was and will be God. He suffered a spiritual and utter seperation from Father God on the Cross and it wasn't his fault. He became our sacrifice, our Lamb that God provided, so he could Save us from being eternally punished in Hell for what we did, and also for the sins of not doing what we should have done.

So no, that's not punishment for the sins of One person. Jesus had no sins.

[Libby]

You are misunderstanding what I said.

Jesus died on the cross for the sins of the WORLD...and, yet, even that suffering, as great as it was, was not as horrible as what ONE PERSON is, supposedly, suppose to pay for whatever meager sins he has committed during his very short stay on this earth. There is an imbalance in that kind of justice, is what I am saying.

[ActRaiser]

Originally Posted by Libby

You are misunderstanding what I said.

Jesus died on the cross for the sins of the WORLD...and, yet, even that was not as horrible as what ONE PERSON is, supposedly, suppose to pay for whatever meager sins he has committed. There is an imbalance in that kind of justice, is what I am saying.

The only reason why it isn't as horrible as what one person is supposed to pay for whatever "meager" sins he has committed, is because Jesus is God. (He proved this by the Father ressurecting himself from the dead) Jesus suffered the whole punishments for all sins on his person, both body and spirit, in a very long, painful moment, where God, his Father, turned from him and made him suffer for EVERYONE else, in order to show the world that he loves us enough to make his own Son suffer to prevent our own just punishment.

[Libby]

You are still not answering my question.

How is the huge discrepancy, between the two punishments, even close to "just"?

[ActRaiser]

Originally Posted by Libby

You are still not answering my question.

How is the huge discrepancy, between the two punishments, even close to "just"?

I don't understand how it's unjust.