Did Jesus Sin?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Libby

I believe Jesus was always perfect, yes. Perfectly God.

So you seem to disagree with theway then, right?

[theway]

Originally Posted by TheSword99

glm1978 already gave you the quote. Scroll up...lol

No he didn't, please show where the actual quote is, not an Anti-Mormon opinion

Originally Posted by TheSword99

You said Christ needed baptism to be perfect. Then you say he was always perfect. Which is it?

So???

If you refused to fulfill all righeousness would He still be perfect?

Originally Posted by TheSword99

Lorenzo Snow says as man is, God once was, If that's true than God must have sinned if he was just like us. So go ahead and tell me he didn't mean what he said.

Really???? Think Jesus Christ.

[theway]

Originally Posted by Libby

It's not really that confusing.

All "the way" is trying to say is that, if Jesus really did come here to "fulfill the law", there was a process to that. He may have been perfect, but his mission was not complete (perfection was not displayed) until he fulfilled that mission perfectly.

There you go...
Now why do you suppose Anti-mormons have such a hard time with that?
Maybe because it's simple logic.

[Libby]

Originally Posted by Billyray

So you seem to disagree with theway then, right?

I don't think so. I think you guys are misunderstanding what "the way" is saying.

I don't think he is saying Jesus ever sinned. He is simply saying that his "perfecting" was a process. A process which he completed "perfectly".

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Libby

I don't think he is saying Jesus ever sinned. He is simply saying that his "perfecting" was a process. A process which he completed "perfectly".

So then both of you would agree that Jesus was perfect before Jesus was baptized. Is that what you are saying?

[theway]

Originally Posted by Billyray

So then both of you would agree that Jesus was perfect before Jesus was baptized. Is that what you are saying?

And around and around she goes...

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by theway

And around and around she goes...

So are you finally going to admit that Jesus was perfect before he was baptized??.

[theway]

Originally Posted by Billyray

So are you finally going to admit that Jesus was perfect before he was baptized??.

Oh no you don't... I'm not getting on that merry-go-round ride with you.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by theway

Oh no you don't... I'm not getting on that merry-go-round ride with you.

It is OK to admit that you were wrong.

[Libby]

Except that he wasn't the one who was wrong. You were misunderstanding what he was saying.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Libby

Except that he wasn't the one who was wrong. You were misunderstanding what he was saying.

So you are saying that he meant to say that Jesus was perfect before he was baptized?

Originally Posted by theway

Jesus was baptized because He said He needed "to fulfill all righteousness"

Had He not of fulfilled all righteousness would He of still been perfect?
And if He was not perfect, was He still saved?

Libby perhaps you could explain what he meant by this post.

[glm1978]

Originally Posted by Libby

I don't think so. I think you guys are misunderstanding what "the way" is saying.

I don't think he is saying Jesus ever sinned. He is simply saying that his "perfecting" was a process. A process which he completed "perfectly".

why not let theway speak for himself. When I and others on here mentioned that "being perfect" meant "complete" you posted that we were wresting the scripture to make it mean what we wanted.

The lds cannot have it both ways. To say that Jesus (As well as God) was once a man like us would mean that he was imperfect. If he was imperfect then he sinned. There are no perfect humans. So either Christ was always God the Son, or he was once a mortal who had to learn and grow which includes having been a sinner. Which is it?

Did you even look at the link sword9 submitted? There are lds apologists and others who said it was possible that God had sinned. That my dear is the confusing world of Mormonism.

[glm1978]

Originally Posted by Billyray

So you are saying that he meant to say that Jesus was perfect before he was baptized?


Libby perhaps you could explain what he meant by this post.

Theway has said more than once that Jesus needed to be baptized in order to be perfect. He has placed himself in this quagmire that he cannot get out of. The lds know full well the Lorenzo Snow couplet. If God was once like us, then once upon a time he was not perfect.

[TheSword99]

Originally Posted by theway

No he didn't, please show where the actual quote is, not an Anti-Mormon opinion


So???

If you refused to fulfill all righeousness would He still be perfect?

Really???? Think Jesus Christ.

Was Bruce McConkie anti mormon? I will quote what glm1978 posted earlier:

"The man who became the Father was not eternal God. Since he died, he needed to be "resurrected". And once being a sinner, he needed "salvation". (Bruce McConkie)

BTW, why are you afraid to check out the link I submitted? Lots of quotes from the lds about how God could have sinned.

[glm1978]

Originally Posted by TheSword99

BTW, why are you afraid to check out the link I submitted? Lots of quotes from the lds about how God could have sinned.

I checked out the link you gave. It's very interesting. I must have spend a good 30 minutes. It was refreshing to hear from individual LDS speak so freely without the influence of the church. I was also amazed how casually they talked about how its possible that God could have sinned as if it were no big deal.

[theway]

Originally Posted by TheSword99

Was Bruce McConkie anti mormon? I will quote what glm1978 posted earlier:

"The man who became the Father was not eternal God. Since he died, he needed to be "resurrected". And once being a sinner, he needed "salvation". (Bruce McConkie)

Ths is not a quote of BRM.

This makes 11 times now; NEVER go to an Anti-Mormon source for your information, you will end up embarr***ing yourself.

Originally Posted by TheSword99

BTW, why are you afraid to check out the link I submitted? Lots of quotes from the lds about how God could have sinned.

If I wanted to read about someone who believes that God sinned, I would go to a Christian site, where 50% of Christians are open to the idea.
Ironically, in studies actually done on this subject, Mormons are the "least likely" of all major religions to hold the belief that God sinned. You guys are always looking for a mote while ignoring the beam in your own eye.

Sorry, but you have embarr***ed yourself again. I suggest you quit while you are behind.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by theway

Ths is not a quote of BRM.

We don't need BRM's quote because we have your quote

Originally Posted by theway

Jesus was baptized because He said He needed "to fulfill all righteousness"

Had He not of fulfilled all righteousness would He of still been perfect?
And if He was not perfect, was He still saved?

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by theway

There you go again James changing words. I said He had to become perfected by remaining perfect.

Just how does anything become perfect of it was perfect to start with.. Another mystery of mormonism? Like becoming children of God even though mormonism teaches that we are all children of God by right of birth to him in some invented preexistence? I say that Jesus has always been perfect. That unlike us He entered this world PURE where we entered this world with the stain of sin on us. He remained perfect because His nature was good. We entered this world with the nature to do evil because that is our nature.. So Jesus never became righteous, He never gain perfection. These are just part of His nature as God.. But in mormonism there is no eternal God.. There is always a older more powerful god one generation back.. To Christians God is the only God.. There was never any other God formed in the eons of the past and no other God will ever be formed in the eons of time yet in the future.. God alone is God there is no other.. If mormonism reflected the Bible that fact would replace it's false teaching of exaltation.. IHS jim

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by TheSword99

No Jim, glm1978 was quoting theway who said Jesus needed baptism to be perfect.

Good he sacred me..

This fact of a difference between John's baptism and Christian baptism is something mormonism just can't understand. Even the story of their Aaronic priesthood's "restoration" see John the Baptist conferring that "authority" on them and not the priesthood of the believer.. It a mix mash of OT and NT and has no truth in it at all.. IHS jim

[theway]

Originally Posted by Billyray

We don't need BRM's quote because we have your quote

Ah yes... don't let the fact that you guys were wrong get in the way.

If you look at my post you'll notice all I did was ask two questions.
If you notice further you never answered them; instead you just decided to misrepresent a question and turn it into a statement, because to answer the question would show how bankrupt your argument was, so you'll just pretend it never existed.
We've been down this road a hundred times now Billyray, I'm tired of play the game.
You answer my question directly, then I will answer your's; otherwise have a nice day.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by theway

We've been down this road a hundred times now Billyray, I'm tired of play the game.

Not a game and this is something that you started not me. Jesus was perfect before he was baptized, and Jesus didn't need to be saved.

[theway]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Not a game and this is something that you started not me. Jesus was perfect before he was baptized, and Jesus didn't need to be saved.

Answer my questions Billyray; that will be my argument.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by theway

Answer my questions Billyray; that will be my argument.

I would love to hear your argument theway. Let's hear it.

[TheSword99]

Originally Posted by theway

Ths is not a quote of BRM.

This makes 11 times now; NEVER go to an Anti-Mormon source for your information, you will end up embarr***ing yourself.

.

I don't know where glm was quoting from, but I did some research on what exactly McConkie said. He wrote, “The Father is a glorified, perfected resurrected, exalted man who worked out his own salvation by obedience” (A New Witness for the Articles of Faith, p. 64).

So yes, he does mean that God needed to be "saved."

I'm not worried about embarr***ing myself. Again I ask: was McConkie anti mormon?

[TheSword99]

Originally Posted by theway

Sorry, but you have embarr***ed yourself again. I suggest you quit while you are behind.

Quit? Why would I ever quit proclaiming the Gospel of Jesus Christ? That would be being disobedient wouldn't it, since Christ commanded we carry out the Great Commission.

Look, theway, you can't have your cake and eat it too. Either God (and Jesus) was always God, or he was a man. Either Jesus was always perfect or he became perfect. No brother of the devil is the eternal God. Your own prophets have continuously taught that God was once a mortal man who p***ed through a school of earth life similar to that which we are now p***ing. That he became God, an exalted being, through obedience. Therefore, the lds church does not believe in the same God and Jesus Christ of the Holy Scriptures.