Did Jesus Sin?

[theway]

Originally Posted by Billyray

I would love to hear your argument theway. Let's hear it.

Like I said... your answers to my two questions will be my argument. (That is, if it's an actual yes or no answer, and not your usual wishy-washy, maybe yes, maybe no, answer)

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by theway

Like I said... your answers to my two questions will be my argument. (That is, if it's an actual yes or no answer, and not your usual wishy-washy, maybe yes, maybe no, answer)

As far as your questions they are hypothetical "what if" questions and I am not going to answer "what if" because we know exactly what Christ did. If you gave an argument I would love to hear it. Thus far I have no idea what you are trying to say.

[theway]

Originally Posted by Billyray

As far as your questions they are hypothetical "what if" questions and I am not going to answer "what if" because we know exactly what Christ did. If you gave an argument I would love to hear it. Thus far I have no idea what you are trying to say.

Then I'm not going give you an answer, to do so would be for me to jump onto yet another one of your neverending circular arguments of never ending questions.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by theway

Then I'm not going give you an answer, to do so would be for me to jump onto yet another one of your neverending circular arguments of never ending questions.

This is supposedly your argument and you don't even want to present it? OK

BTW nobody seems to know what on earth you were trying to say and you have an opportunity to try and tell us but it looks like you don't want to.

Bottom line Jesus is God and is perfect. He was perfect before his baptism and he was perfect after his baptism.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by theway

There you go...
Now why do you suppose Anti-mormons have such a hard time with that?
Maybe because it's simple logic.

It's the logic of men not of God.. Jesus was God the whole time he walked among us during His mortal ministry. He was perfect the whole time because it is His nature to be perfect, as it is our nature to be sinners.. The problem here is that both mormons and Libby believe that Jesus is a creation of God and NOT really God.. That He is the creation Himself and not the creator.. If you could believe the Bible just a bit you would see that Jesus created ALL things, all things include Satan, it includes the human spirit.. Anything else is just antibiblical myth.. IHS jim

[theway]

Originally Posted by Billyray

BTW nobody seems to know what on earth you were trying to say and you have an opportunity to try and tell us but it looks like you don't want to.

That's strange???
First you tell me what it is I'm really saying, and then you tell me nobody understands what I am saying?

Libby had no problem with it, same with any LDS.
You are just trying to hard to find something wrong with the LDS, that your whole worldview doesn't make any sense when you can't find anything wrong with what an LDS is saying.

But then I'm not that naive, I know you understand what I am saying, that's why I won't play your game. You just want me to go around and around with you until I make a mistake somewhere; this also keeps you from answering any questions.

[theway]

Originally Posted by James Banta

It's the logic of men not of God.. Jesus was God the whole time he walked among us during His mortal ministry. He was perfect the whole time because it is His nature to be perfect, as it is our nature to be sinners.. The problem here is that both mormons and Libby believe that Jesus is a creation of God and NOT really God.. That He is the creation Himself and not the creator.. If you could believe the Bible just a bit you would see that Jesus created ALL things, all things include Satan, it includes the human spirit.. Anything else is just antibiblical myth.. IHS jim

Oh I see... so the logic of God is that God is perfect because He says so? That means it is impossible for Jesus to have sinned. That would make Christ's claim to perfection and righteousness meaningless, because there would be nothing to gauge His perfection or righteousness against.

If it is impossible for Jesus to have sinned, then at the same time it would be impossible for Him to have claimed His righteousness.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by theway

That's strange???
First you tell me what it is I'm really saying, and then you tell me nobody understands what I am saying?

Libby had no problem with it, same with any LDS.
You are just trying to hard to find something wrong with the LDS, that your whole worldview doesn't make any sense when you can't find anything wrong with what an LDS is saying.

But then I'm not that naive, I know you understand what I am saying, that's why I won't play your game. You just want me to go around and around with you until I make a mistake somewhere; this also keeps you from answering any questions.

Do you want to know what is wrong with mormonism? I mean Biblically? O have stated the fundamental problem many times.. It is that you have created a different God from the God found in the Bible.. You have three beings and three God (Joseph Smith, History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 473). According to Joseph Smith your God became a God and at one time in the past was nothing more than a mortal man (JS, History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 302-317). It was taught to the LDS people over the pulpit in conference where even the prophet seer and revelator of the LDS church said AMEN that "If we should take a million of worlds like this and number their particles, we should find that there are more Gods than there are particles of matter in those worlds." (Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p. 345). But God tell us through the Prophet that He does know of any other God.

Isaiah 44:8
Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

Mormonism is therefore teaching a different God(s) than we find in the Bible.. If we have a different foundation other than what we were first given we are in terrible error.. And mormonism has done just that.. It built it's self on a false foundation a god other than the God revealed in the Bible.. That one fact alone proves mormonism to be nothing but an invention of men, A LIE FROM IT'S INCEPTION.. IHS jim

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by theway

That's strange???
First you tell me what it is I'm really saying, and then you tell me nobody understands what I am saying?

Because what you have said doesn't make sense. Why don't you just explain what you were trying to say and give us your argument if you have one. Did Jesus need to be baptized to be perfect or was he perfect prior to his baptism?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by theway

Libby had no problem with it, same with any LDS.

I asked her to try and explain what you meant and I didn't see that she ever did. What is so hard just trying to tell us what you meant because it looked like you said Jesus had to be baptized in order to be perfect and to be saved which to me seem nutty since Jesus God and he is perfect before and after he was baptized.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by theway

If it is impossible for Jesus to have sinned, then at the same time it would be impossible for Him to have claimed His righteousness.

Jesus is God and has always been righteous. Are you now saying that he wasn't righteous before his baptism?

[TheSword99]

Originally Posted by Billyray

This is supposedly your argument and you don't even want to present it? OK

BTW nobody seems to know what on earth you were trying to say and you have an opportunity to try and tell us but it looks like you don't want to.

Bottom line Jesus is God and is perfect. He was perfect before his baptism and he was perfect after his baptism.

Amen Billy. We know what he is trying to say. It's what he won't say. The lds say that Jesus had to continue to be perfect in order to complete his role as Savior. What they won't say is that they have had leaders who believe God had to work out His own salvation. That God and man are of the same species and God is now an exalted man. This isn't what God said about Himself in the Scriptures. God never changes. He's the same yesterday, today and forever. Even the BoM says He's the unchangeable God. Same for Jesus who is the Alpha and Omega.

So the lds has a dilemma they cannot fix. If God and Jesus were once men like us, then yes they had to have sinned.

When Jesus was on earth, was he capable of sinning. Could he have chosen to disobey? No, of course Not. God cannot sin. There is nothing evil in His nature.

[TheSword99]

Originally Posted by theway

That's strange???
First you tell me what it is I'm really saying, and then you tell me nobody understands what I am saying?

Libby had no problem with it, same with any LDS.
You are just trying to hard to find something wrong with the LDS, that your whole worldview doesn't make any sense when you can't find anything wrong with what an LDS is saying.

But then I'm not that naive, I know you understand what I am saying, that's why I won't play your game. You just want me to go around and around with you until I make a mistake somewhere; this also keeps you from answering any questions.

There is plenty wrong with Mormonism and if you were honest you would admit it. Brigham Young knew nothing about Christianity. He was extremely carnal. His teachings were blasphemous. Look at the Adam-God teaching and his version of blood atonement which was an eye for an eye. Killing a murderer makes one a murderer. Didn't God say vengeance belongs to Him alone. That we are to love our enemies and bless those who hate us? Yet the lds believe they have restored original Christianity with men like Brigham Young and all these other leaders who claimed God is of the same species we are and is now an exalted man. Where does God say that in the Holy Scriptures?

Libby has admitted she doesn't believe in many of your church's doctrines. She has said that she believes in Hinduism and Buddhism and that there are many paths to God.

[Libby]

There is plenty wrong with Mormonism and if you were honest you would admit it.

There is plenty wrong with your religion and "if you were honest you would admit it".

[Libby]

I think I'm beginning to see why you may have been banned from MDD, TS.

Talking to LDS like that, about the religion they hold sacred...plus, demeaning, degrading their leaders, does exactly what? Do you really think any practicing LDS is going to take that kind of talk seriously? I know that they believe that kind of talk is directly from Satan.

Why not just present your own views of religion and lay off the bashing?

[Libby]

Libby has admitted she doesn't believe in many of your church's doctrines.

There is actually a LOT I do agree with, in their basic doctrine. I try to find areas of agreement, instead of always searching out things with which I disagree.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Libby

There is plenty wrong with your religion and "if you were honest you would admit it".

Can you give me an example what is wrong with Christianity?

[Libby]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Can you give me an example what is wrong with Christianity?

I'm not going to retread that water. You should have a pretty good idea of what I believe, by now.

I believe in a loving God...and all of my beliefs stem from that one basic belief.

I am getting ready to take a sabbatical from here. (I'm sure James, at least, will do a happy dance, when he reads this )

Need to focus on more positive things. I don't think most of these conversations do anyone much good.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Libby

I believe in a loving God...and all of my beliefs stem from that one basic belief.

So you have made up in your own mind what you want to believe and ignore what the Bible teaches.

[Libby]

Originally Posted by Billyray

So you have made up in your own mind what you want to believe and ignore what the Bible teaches.

I have made up my own mind with God's guidance. And, no, I do not ignore what is taught in the Bible.

[TheSword99]

Originally Posted by Libby

I think I'm beginning to see why you may have been banned from MDD, TS.

Talking to LDS like that, about the religion they hold sacred...plus, demeaning, degrading their leaders, does exactly what? Do you really think any practicing LDS is going to take that kind of talk seriously? I know that they believe that kind of talk is directly from Satan.

Why not just present your own views of religion and lay off the bashing?

Christ commanded we preach the Gospel, not give personal views.

[TheSword99]

Originally Posted by Libby

There is actually a LOT I do agree with, in their basic doctrine. I try to find areas of agreement, instead of always searching out things with which I disagree.

Ok, so you believe in Mormonism, Hinduism and Buddhism.

[TheSword99]

Originally Posted by Libby

I am getting ready to take a sabbatical from here.

A sabbatical sounds like a good idea. All this back and forth bantering really doesn't do much good. I have noticed how much different some of the other forum sites are and I much more enjoy the dialogues and civility there.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Libby

And, no, I do not ignore what is taught in the Bible.

You have admitted on multiple occasions that you don't believe sections of the Bible.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Libby

Need to focus on more positive things. I don't think most of these conversations do anyone much good.

They haven't done you much good because you still hold to your heretical viewpoint but I think that they are illustrative to others who may be reading the board that you postion does not have merit.