Did Jesus Sin?

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by theway

Oh I see... so the logic of God is that God is perfect because He says so? That means it is impossible for Jesus to have sinned. That would make Christ's claim to perfection and righteousness meaningless, because there would be nothing to gauge His perfection or righteousness against.

If it is impossible for Jesus to have sinned, then at the same time it would be impossible for Him to have claimed His righteousness.

Yes it was impossible for Jesus to have sinned.. God is the measure by which perfection is measured. And since He also can't lie, when He says so that is the way it is.. Are you ready to judge Him? You do that and tell Him that He isn't as perfect as you..

Just how is the claim that Jesus is God and therefore perfect make His perfection meaningless? It makes His the pure lamb of God that could be the spotless sacrifice for sin. He had no sin of His own to pay for so He could become the sacrifice for the sins of all sinners.. It was the only way we could become the righteousness of God through Him..

Why under heaven is it impossible for a totally righteous person to claim to be righteous? You have said that it is impossible for that to be the case and yet you have not explained why that can be.. The LDS claim that new born babies are clean before God, so they not? What is cleanliness before God is not sinlessness? disagree that people sin to become sinners.. If sin is their base nature that is why they are sinners and they sin because they are sinners.. God is not a sinner by His nature but rather is perfect is His nature.. Your baseless claim that God can't be righteous if He had never sinned is not logical. Righteousness is righteousness, sin is sin.. A person is either one or the other. It doesn't take a genesis to understand the difference.. IHS jim

[Libby]

Originally Posted by TheSword99

Christ commanded we preach the Gospel, not give personal views.

Then, preach the gospel, as you perceive it and stop the bashing.

[Libby]

Originally Posted by TheSword99

A sabbatical sounds like a good idea. All this back and forth bantering really doesn't do much good. I have noticed how much different some of the other forum sites are and I much more enjoy the dialogues and civility there.

Yes, that's what I said and I agree. I think all that can be said, has been said. Just a lot of words, really, with little meaning, unless we are applying it in our lives..and moving closer to God.

[TheSword99]

Originally Posted by Libby

Then, preach the gospel, as you perceive it and stop the bashing.

I wish you well Libby. But I have had enough.

[Libby]

Originally Posted by TheSword99

I wish you well Libby. But I have had enough.

No offense intended, TW. I wish you well, also.

[glm1978]

Originally Posted by TheSword99

But I have had enough.

There will always be those who will try to silence Christians. Many are closed to the truth which is why they have a low view of the authority and inspiration of the bible, We can show love until we turn blue, but a lot of people will never give up those beliefs that feel right to them. I was on another discussion board where mention of the bible was met with resistance, even hostility. They balk at anyone who expressed absolute statements of faith. These were disenfranchised Mormons who no longer know what to believe nor want to hear what the scriptures teaches. They will turn on you like a pack of vultures.

The apostle Paul never minced words nor compromised his faith. This led to beatings and imprisonments. Many tried to silence Jesus who called the pharisees and other Jews, hypocrites, brood of vipers and white-washed tombs and it led to his death. All we can do is reason from the scriptures. We cannot control how others will respond.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by TheSword99

I wish you well Libby. But I have had enough.

The problem with this site and sites like it is that we can't hold each other and so personal support we could person to person.. The love we hold for the body in general and each other in particular can get lost in the defense for Gospel that must be made here daily.. If you have to leave I for one understand this constant degradation of the Word, the Gospel, and of our Lord Himself can be draining.. But fear friend don't go away feeling alone or that there is no love here is is here between those that love Him, and extended even to those that deny Him.. They can't see it but it is an act of love point to the cross and and act of love revealing the lies of a man.. It is my love toward you that I say if I can't meet you here and have fellowship I will see you and share our experience of standing before our Lord and worshiping Him together.. I am your friend and stand with you IHS, jim

[alanmolstad]

Jesus never sinned.

The Mormon idea of Jesus is a lie....so this is why the Mormons can have all kinds of crazy ideas about both Jesus and the father.

But the Jesus of the bible and the christian church was without sin.

[nrajeffreturns]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Jesus never sinned..

It's always good when people recognize the doctrines that LDS and other Christians agree on.

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns

It's always good when people recognize the doctrines that LDS and other Christians agree on.

Is there a (doctrine) statement from LDS HQ saying your mormon jesus never sinned?

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

Is there a (doctrine) statement from LDS HQ saying your Mormon Jesus never sinned?

This question came up a few years ago...

As I remember it, there was a Mormon writer or something, who came out with a book or website where he was pointing out to other Mormons that their Mormon god could sin in the past.

I think the Mormon was just trying to help other Mormons see how their own sins are not a big deal and that even their god was a sinner in the past.

It must be the natural implications of the Mormon teaching that as man is, god was, as god is man may become....
This Mormon knew that all men are sinners, and if this is how their god was too, then their Mormon god was a sinner, case closed.

What i do remember is that a lot of other Mormons took issue with his thinking, yet actually found it hard to say that the guy was wrong.
It's like the other Mormons knew that the guy had a good point, but just did not want this teaching known widely.

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

This question came up a few years ago...

As I remember it, there was a Mormon writer or something, who came out with a book or website where he was pointing out to other Mormons that their Mormon god could sin in the past.

I think the Mormon was just trying to help other Mormons see how their own sins are not a big deal and that even their god was a sinner in the past.

It must be the natural implications of the Mormon teaching that as man is, god was, as god is man may become....
This Mormon knew that all men are sinners, and if this is how their god was too, then their Mormon god was a sinner, case closed.

What i do remember is that a lot of other Mormons took issue with his thinking, yet actually found it hard to say that the guy was wrong.
It's like the other Mormons knew that the guy had a good point, but just did not want this teaching known widely.

You are correct, mormons can't believe in their heart of hearts that the mormon jesus didn't sin.
If for a moment it entered their head that the mormon jesus didn't sin then it would leave them hopeless. In NO way could a temple recommend male in good standing with LDSinc. HQ ever have a chance at LDS godhood if the thought of a sinless mormon jesus ever existed.
So the correct answer in the halls of LDSinc HQ is both the mormon jesus and mormon god the father did if fact sin.

[Snow Patrol]

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

You are correct, mormons can't believe in their heart of hearts that the mormon jesus didn't sin.

How do you guys get away with such blatant lies?

So the correct answer in the halls of LDSinc HQ is both the mormon jesus and mormon god the father did if fact sin.

No, in fact Jesus didn't sin. Another blatant lie.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

You are correct, mormons can't believe in their heart of hearts that the mormon jesus didn't sin.
If for a moment it entered their head that the mormon jesus didn't sin then it would leave them hopeless. In NO way could a temple recommend male in good standing with LDSinc. HQ ever have a chance at LDS godhood if the thought of a sinless mormon jesus ever existed.
So the correct answer in the halls of LDSinc HQ is both the mormon jesus and mormon god the father did if fact sin.

Thanks ...
They sure do have a messed idea about God!

[nrajeffreturns]

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

Is there a (doctrine) statement from LDS HQ saying your mormon jesus never sinned?

"He lived a perfect, sinless life"
http://www.lds.org/ensign/2012/08/st...&query=sinless

"He was sinless"
http://www.lds.org/new-era/2009/03/w...&query=sinless

[nrajeffreturns]

Here are the search hits: http://www.lds.org/search?lang=eng&query=Sinless

[Sir]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Thanks ...
They sure do have a messed idea about God!

No, you guys just obviously make up what you want LDS to believe and then attack that as messed up.

That, ironically, is pretty messed up. But more to the point it is dishonest and reflective of the "christianity" that you guys would have us follow.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Sir

No, you guys just obviously make up what you want LDS to believe and then attack that as messed up.

You believe that Jesus has not always been God. Right?

[nrajeffreturns]

Originally Posted by Billyray

You believe that Jesus has not always been God. Right?

We believe what the Bible says about it to the extent that it gives details. Unfortunately, it doesn't have many details about Jesus' pre-OT history. If such details got written down, they are no longer in the Bible.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns

We believe what the Bible says about it to the extent that it gives details. Unfortunately, it doesn't have many details about Jesus' pre-OT history. If such details got written down, they are no longer in the Bible.

But Mormons don't believe that Jesus has always been God. Do you disagree and believe that Jesus has always been God?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns

If such details got written down, they are no longer in the Bible.

But you have modern day revelation by your modern day prophets who have given you further information on these topics. Right?

[nrajeffreturns]

Originally Posted by Billyray

But you have modern day revelation by your modern day prophets who have given you further information on these topics. Right?

Right.You are correct.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns

Right.You are correct.

And statements by you own prophet has said that God has not always been God. Right?

[nrajeffreturns]

Originally Posted by Billyray

And statements by you own prophet has said that God has not always been God. Right?

Which prophet, and which statements? Are you referring to the King Follet funeral remarks that Joseph Smith made?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by nrajeffreturns

Which prophet, and which statements? Are you referring to the King Follet funeral remarks that Joseph Smith made?

I think the king follett sermon is a perfect example.