Page 1 of 8 12345 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 198

Thread: Is Being Born-Again Irrelevant?

  1. #1
    TheSword99
    Guest

    Default Is Being Born-Again Irrelevant?

    An lds poster said that the topic of whether or not one is born-again is irrelevant. Jesus Christ said we must be born again or we cannot see the kingdom of God.

    How do the lds define being born-again? Do they believe the unregenerate can understand the Holy Scriptures?

  2. #2
    glm1978
    Guest

    Default

    Here's an excellent link:

    www.bornagainmormon.com

  3. #3
    alanmolstad
    Guest

    Default

    we "must" be born again.......

    The term 'must" leaves us with no way around what Jesus wanted from us....

    Jesus was telling us that being "born again" is a REQUIREMENT !

  4. #4
    glm1978
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    we "must" be born again.......

    The term 'must" leaves us with no way around what Jesus wanted from us....

    Jesus was telling us that being "born again" is a REQUIREMENT !
    Are you born again, alan?

  5. #5
    alanmolstad
    Guest

    Default

    I am what I am.....the proof of the pudding is in the tasting, not in what the pudding says about itself....LOL

    Many people define themselves by terms like "Born-again faith"
    However you cant see faith.
    No person can see into my heart and see if there is faith there or not.

    This is the reason we have "works" that speak of the hidden faith.

    Thus there is no need to ask, if you can see my works.

    And if you cant see my works, then there is no point in asking.....






    In a forum like this, you tell me

    .......for in the nature of my actions here, in the wordings I use when I see the bickering, in the at***ude I bring to the conversation, and in the way I attempt to sway from personal attacks to more civilized sharing, do you have your answer or not?
    Last edited by alanmolstad; 11-17-2012 at 07:42 AM.

  6. #6
    glm1978
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    I am what I am.....the proof of the pudding is in the tasting, not in what the pudding says about itself....LOL

    Many people define themselves by terms like "Born-again faith"
    However you cant see faith.
    No person can see into my heart and see if there is faith there or not.

    This is the reason we have "works" that speak of the hidden faith.

    Thus there is no need to ask, if you can see my works.

    And if you cant see my works, then there is no point in asking.....








    In a forum like this, you tell me

    .......for in the nature of my actions here, in the wordings I use when I see the bickering, in the at***ude I bring to the conversation, and in the way I attempt to sway from personal attacks to more civilized sharing, do you have your answer or not?

    all I see is a refusal to give us a direct answer.

  7. #7
    alanmolstad
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by glm1978 View Post
    all I see is a refusal to give us a direct answer.
    .....I see you did not answer my question.....
    oh well.....my point remains.....

    I have written a great many things on this forum.
    In all this time, after all such history, have I ever said even one word that caused you to question my Christian faith?

    The proof of the pudding......the proof is found not in the pudding's self descriptions of itself, but in it's tasting by others...


    So, go check out my history, look at any and all of my posts over the years I have been a member here.
    Then come back and tell me you find even the slightest word I have posted that tell you that Im not a Christian.

    yes, I post different than you do, just look at how I pick out words to post that reflect my own private views on a great many matters.

    I may post with a different style than you do, but Im ok with that.
    I answer questions in my own way,
    I ask questions in my own way,
    I dont much try to copy the style of others here,
    I try to be calm in the middle of some very stormy seas at times around here....

    But if you think that you know of something I have posted that you believe "No Christian would say that ever" then bring that to me....or else if you dont have anything, then lets move on and not make this topic about me personally....
    Last edited by alanmolstad; 11-17-2012 at 08:03 AM.

  8. #8
    ActRaiser
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by glm1978 View Post
    all I see is a refusal to give us a direct answer.

  9. #9
    ActRaiser
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ActRaiser View Post
    This image of an angry looking Owl was posted because I think it's clear that AlanMostad WAS giving you an answer. You just seem to be refusing his answer as an answer. :|

  10. #10
    James Banta
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    .....I see you did not answer my question.....
    oh well.....my point remains.....

    I have written a great many things on this forum.
    In all this time, after all such history, have I ever said even one word that caused you to question my Christian faith?

    The proof of the pudding......the proof is found not in the pudding's self descriptions of itself, but in it's tasting by others...


    So, go check out my history, look at any and all of my posts over the years I have been a member here.
    Then come back and tell me you find even the slightest word I have posted that tell you that Im not a Christian.

    yes, I post different than you do, just look at how I pick out words to post that reflect my own private views on a great many matters.

    I may post with a different style than you do, but Im ok with that.
    I answer questions in my own way,
    I ask questions in my own way,
    I dont much try to copy the style of others here,
    I try to be calm in the middle of some very stormy seas at times around here....

    But if you think that you know of something I have posted that you believe "No Christian would say that ever" then bring that to me....or else if you dont have anything, then lets move on and not make this topic about me personally....
    All who have posted on this thread are Christian. We accept that by nature of the faith we have acknowledged. God see that in out hearts and has made us His children. Alan is right we don't see each others hearts and rely in seeing His works within us. The works we see here is our testimony of Jesus we proclaim.. Each of us have done so and will continue to lift our Lord before the non believing LDS.. So let us now have love for ine another because this is how we are known by the world..

    John 13:35
    By this shall all men know that you are my disciples, if you have love one to another.
    IHS jim

  11. #11
    TheSword99
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    .....I see you did not answer my question.....
    oh well.....my point remains.....

    I have written a great many things on this forum.
    In all this time, after all such history, have I ever said even one word that caused you to question my Christian faith?

    The proof of the pudding......the proof is found not in the pudding's self descriptions of itself, but in it's tasting by others...


    So, go check out my history, look at any and all of my posts over the years I have been a member here.
    Then come back and tell me you find even the slightest word I have posted that tell you that Im not a Christian.

    yes, I post different than you do, just look at how I pick out words to post that reflect my own private views on a great many matters.

    I may post with a different style than you do, but Im ok with that.
    I answer questions in my own way,
    I ask questions in my own way,
    I dont much try to copy the style of others here,
    I try to be calm in the middle of some very stormy seas at times around here....

    But if you think that you know of something I have posted that you believe "No Christian would say that ever" then bring that to me....or else if you dont have anything, then lets move on and not make this topic about me personally....
    A yes would have sufficed and then others will move on.

  12. #12
    alanmolstad
    Guest

    Default

    and, Sword cant resist adding his 2cents too...LOL

    Everyone get that out of their system?
    can we go back to a non-personal topic now?.......thanks,

  13. #13
    alanmolstad
    Guest

    Default

    was the best example of a person turning to the Lord, (The Thief on the cross), yet a story of a person expressing their born again-ness?

    The topic I see raised again and again is "works vs faith"
    Christians talk about "Saved by Grace though faith"
    Mormons drop back to their church's teachings that you are saved via 'works" and this is expressed as "all you can do"

    The "do-ing" is the main consideration with all CULTs as it means you are dependent on not faith but your own cult-driven actions to become saved.

    Yet in the story of the Thief on the cross we see a very good example of the born again experience being expressed in a confession of faith....
    The Thief did not have to say "Im Born Again"
    rather what the Thief does is confess the Lord.

    This is a confession driven by the born again inner nature of a person..

    No where in the Bible does it say "yes the Thief was Born Again"
    But we can know this by his actions, by his only recorded works...

    This is how we know if a person is truly born again.....by their works.
    For while works do not save anyone, they do reveal the true faith hidden in the heart.
    Last edited by alanmolstad; 11-17-2012 at 09:45 AM.

  14. #14
    TheSword99
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    was the best example of a person turning to the Lord, (The Thief on the cross), yet a story of a person expressing their born again-ness?

    The topic I see raised again and again is "works vs faith"
    Christians talk about "Saved by Grace though faith"
    Mormons drop back to their church's teachings that you are saved via 'works" and this is expressed as "all you can do"

    The "do-ing" is the main consideration with all CULTs as it means you are dependent on not faith but your own cult-driven actions to become saved.

    Yet in the story of the Thief on the cross we see a very good example of the born again experience being expressed in a confession of faith....
    The Thief did not have to say "Im Born Again"
    rather what the Thief does is confess the Lord.

    This is a confession driven by the born again inner nature of a person..

    No where in the Bible does it say "yes the Thief was Born Again"
    But we can know this by his actions, by his only recorded works...

    This is how we know if a person is truly born again.....by their works.
    For while works do not save anyone, they do reveal the true faith hidden in the heart.
    I agree that we shall know them by their fruits. However, a born again Christian never hesitates to let the world know that Jesus is His Savior.

    The thief on the cross was under the old covenant.

  15. #15
    glm1978
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    was the best example of a person turning to the Lord, (The Thief on the cross), yet a story of a person expressing their born again-ness?

    The topic I see raised again and again is "works vs faith"
    Christians talk about "Saved by Grace though faith"
    Mormons drop back to their church's teachings that you are saved via 'works" and this is expressed as "all you can do"

    The "do-ing" is the main consideration with all CULTs as it means you are dependent on not faith but your own cult-driven actions to become saved.

    Yet in the story of the Thief on the cross we see a very good example of the born again experience being expressed in a confession of faith....
    The Thief did not have to say "Im Born Again"
    rather what the Thief does is confess the Lord.

    This is a confession driven by the born again inner nature of a person..

    No where in the Bible does it say "yes the Thief was Born Again"
    But we can know this by his actions, by his only recorded works...

    This is how we know if a person is truly born again.....by their works.
    For while works do not save anyone, they do reveal the true faith hidden in the heart.
    Alan, I am not your enemy, but Christians should hold each other accountable. Paul did this. Maybe you can help us understand why you have an aversion to saying whether or not you are born again. Christians remember when and where they got saved. For me it was 8 years ago at a bible study.

    I agree with sword90 that the thief was under the Old Covenant and the teaching of being born again did not begin until Pentecost where the Holy Spirit came upon the apostles and their ministry began.

  16. #16
    alanmolstad
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by glm1978 View Post
    ....Maybe you can help us understand why you have an aversion .
    Tell you want I can do for you...I can give you a very clear warning...

    ATTENTION glm1978 - If you can not stick to a topic without getting personal I will add your name to my permanent IGNORE list....

    (Now heed my warning and move on)

  17. #17
    Sir
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TheSword99 View Post
    An lds poster said that the topic of whether or not one is born-again is irrelevant.
    That was me. I see you missed the context of that statement. I said it in response to alan who stated:

    "I dont not get into personal stuff.....for such topics are none of anyone's business and only serve to side-track a topic."

    Alan was asked if he was born-again. He said that topic was none of anyone's business. So I stated:

    "The topic of whether or not he is born-again is irrelevant. That's Hilarious."

    In other words, OF COURSE it is important and relevant to know if someone is born-again. And OF COURSE we must all be born-again as Jesus commanded.

    Obviously even in this thread alan has a problem openly stating that he is born-again. SO the games continue. He gets mad and threatens to ignore all the LDS and the LDS get bored and stop posting. Merry-go-round.

    Clear now?

  18. #18
    TheSword99
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir View Post
    That was me. I see you missed the context of that statement. I said it in response to alan who stated:

    "I dont not get into personal stuff.....for such topics are none of anyone's business and only serve to side-track a topic."

    Alan was asked if he was born-again. He said that topic was none of anyone's business. So I stated:

    "The topic of whether or not he is born-again is irrelevant. That's Hilarious."

    In other words, OF COURSE it is important and relevant to know if someone is born-again. And OF COURSE we must all be born-again as Jesus commanded.

    Obviously even in this thread alan has a problem openly stating that he is born-again. SO the games continue. He gets mad and threatens to ignore all the LDS and the LDS get bored and stop posting. Merry-go-round.

    Clear now?
    I started this thread in the hopes that the lds could tell us how they define being "born again."

  19. #19
    TheSword99
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    Tell you want I can do for you...I can give you a very clear warning...

    ATTENTION glm1978 - If you can not stick to a topic without getting personal I will add your name to my permanent IGNORE list....

    (Now heed my warning and move on)
    This thread IS about being born again. You seem to feel that a Christian does not have to tell others if he is saved or not. That your words on the forum should suffice to convince others. If I had a pastor who refused to tell me if he was saved, I would FLEE. There are "christian" leaders who believe Genesis is allegory, deny the virgin birth and hell, etc. Yet they preach very good sermons.

    Anyway, I am trying to find out what the lds church teaches about being born again.

  20. #20
    TheSword99
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    Tell you want I can do for you...I can give you a very clear warning...

    ATTENTION glm1978 - If you can not stick to a topic without getting personal I will add your name to my permanent IGNORE list....

    (Now heed my warning and move on)
    I guess according to you, admitting one is born again is too personal a thing to do......

  21. #21
    alanmolstad
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TheSword99 View Post
    This thread IS about being born again. You seem to feel that a Christian does not have to tell others if he is saved or not. .....
    This is very true!

    No person (Christian or non-Christian) on this internet forum should feel under any pressure at all to reveal things about their personal feelings or views.

    This should be the very foundation of a message forum such as this.

    The idea should be that people can feel free to come and discuss ideas, they can talk about religions, and the differences about other religions, and talk about the nature of holy books and the text of the Bible, WITHOUT being attacked in a personal way!

    I tell people to "Debate Mormonism, but don't attack the Mormon forum members personally"
    mormons that come to this forum should not be attacked personally, and should be respected and they should never feel personally disrespected by Christians.

    Argue about the Bible, but dont argue over each other....
    Dont make this a forum known to "get personal" and where you see only name-calling and bickering that have nothing to do with the given topic, but seem to be noting more than childish fighting.

    Now as for this poster named "glm1978"?
    I have seen how this person will use things said or not said on other topics to try to hurt people later.
    Thats why I have had enough of their attacks....

    They have made an enemy of me and Im not going to put up with this any more.

    This also shows why I believe you have to be careful what you say here, and none of you can not be trusted with personal information.

    (I dont know if I have gotten a chance to Private Message everyone here yet about glm1978, but I have tried to send messages to new people I see logging-on about the danger of sharing too personal information with glm1978.)

    I have glm1978 all teed-up to place on my permanent ignore list if he/she shoots their mouth off again after my clear warning ....
    I dont care one way or the other.

    Over the years I have found that placing names on my IGNORE list is the very best way to avoid pointless personal attacks, and it also helps clean up my computer screen from this type of known tripe-writers that play their games.

    I ban people from having the opportunity to talk to me because of actions just like what glm1978 is known for, ie: asking the same question over and over (ask Billy, ask Eric-Eric, ask Sir) and I never take the names off my ignore list....

    This is the only way to keep topics from becoming always the same personal attacks, where you see things learned about people years ago , are always being twisted into being used as ways to hurt them later.

    This is the advice I send out to people when i see them get stuck in a loop of attack/defend over totally personal issues.

    "Just put their name on your IGNORE LIST and move on!"


    It saves time, and shows that you have a standard of behavior and good manners that you require of people if they wish their words to appear on your computer screen...

    Remember being on my computer screen is not a right....it's a privilege, and each person that appears on my screen should consider themselves a 'guest"...and conform their posts to the good manners of a guest.



    Now let me tell you the story of why this has to be the way I run things for the posters that wish to have their words read on my computer...


    Years ago I got to know a new poster that seemed to always have nice things to say and who seemed to try to work to get people to not fight on the forum.
    Lets call her name "Sally"

    Sally sent me a PM on the side and talked about all the trouble she had had in her life.
    I offered some advice and sent her a joke to cheer her up.
    I even sent her a recipe for a dish I had been working on.
    So she was a good forum friend of mine.

    Then one day she was in an angry argument with another forum member on some verse dealing with speaking in tongues, when all of the sudden the guy she was fighting with posted about her lack of understanding, and the fact that this was likely the cause of her needing to get an abortion in High school.

    That was the last day Sally posted on the open forum.
    She was gone....
    She never posted again....

    But I did receive a private message from her about a month later where Sally told me she had been sending PMs to another lady on the forum and had talked about her own private problems in High school....
    It clearly was the type of private conversation that only girls share with each other, and that us guys would just never understand.


    What must have happened is that this private information got spread around the forum, and when word of her past reached this one guy she was debating with he used this personal information against her to hurt her.

    Thats the End of the story:

    After this happened I have made it my own personal rule to watch-out for people that seem a-little-too-interested in asking personal questions.

    I make an effort to turn back topics that seem to have gotten off-track and have slid down into being just personal attacks.
    and i warn new posters about what they should watch out for, and who.......,
    Last edited by alanmolstad; 11-18-2012 at 08:14 AM.

  22. #22
    glm1978
    Guest

    Default

    All I did was ask a simple legitimate question.

  23. #23
    alanmolstad
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by glm1978 View Post
    All I did was ask a simple legitimate question.
    could not let it go could you?


    IGNORED!

    (i warned you)

  24. #24
    TheSword99
    Guest

    Default

    Alan, I guess you forgot that ErikErik p***ed away last year. He was my brother. James Banta was the only one who offered his condolences.You had Erik on ignore for so long that you missed his last message to you. You sent IMs warning others about him. It hurt him deeply. It's very sad that you are now doing it to glm.

    You can block me, BillyRay, glm1978 and other Christians all you want, but you are really only hurting yourself. Life is way too short to carry on such petty bickering. No one was personally attacking you. If you don't like this thread you can always unsubscribe to it. But please don't run smear campaigns.

  25. #25
    alanmolstad
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TheSword99 View Post
    Alan, I guess you forgot that ErikErik p***ed away last year. You had Erik on ignore for so long that you missed his last message to you.
    Did he think I was kidding when I warned him that once you get put on ignore you are never getting off that list?

    Is there any doubt now?....(I dont think so)
    Last edited by alanmolstad; 11-18-2012 at 09:18 AM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •