Is Being Born-Again Irrelevant?

[glm1978]

Originally Posted by Sir

Then maybe you critics ought to stop the mocking.



Nobody is "mad". And what I said wasn't "sarcastic". You misunderstood my comment in the context that it was in. That doesn't mean my comment was sarcastic but rather you misunderstood it.



See? You didn't get very far from accusing LDS of mocking to actually being the mocker yourself.




You are in a forum devoted to attacking others' faith. So who is really the "smug" person who believes he has the truth and the others people are hell-bound?





Obviously in this one little post you made points and then destroyed them all by yourself. Nice ***!

There you go again with the attacks. No wonder nobody takes you seriously! Can you please give it a rest? Why is it so difficult to share your faith? None of the LDS have given me any reason why I should return to your church. NONE!

[Sir]

Originally Posted by glm1978

There you go again with the attacks.

No attacks. I was responding to the charges made by one of your own.

He charged LDS of mocking. That is an attack, right? All I did was show that he was the one doing the mocking in the very same post.

You willingly choose to only see an "attack" when it is an LDS post.

No wonder nobody takes you seriously!

Nobody? That's a broad sweeping accusation. Maybe you don't. And that is fine. You have already proven that you only see what you want to see, given the above-mentioned comments.

Can you please give it a rest?

I was responding to someone else. Defending my comments against his. If you don't like that you are free to remove yourself from that line of conversation.

Why is it so difficult to share your faith?

It's not. I share it often.

None of the LDS have given me any reason why I should return to your church. NONE!

No need to. You see things your way. You claim to already have been a member and have left. What could LDS possible "show" you to convince you to return? This charge you make is a common taunt from ex-mormons. The whole "make me see why I should return to my LDS faith" when the problem is ex-mormons that post on websites devoted to attacking Mormonism obviously have no true and real intent or desire to "see" the truth and good of the faith they have renounced.

[glm1978]

Originally Posted by Sir

No attacks. I was responding to the charges made by one of your own.

He charged LDS of mocking. That is an attack, right? All I did was show that he was the one doing the mocking in the very same post.

You willingly choose to only see an "attack" when it is an LDS post.



Nobody? That's a broad sweeping accusation. Maybe you don't. And that is fine. You have already proven that you only see what you want to see, given the above-mentioned comments.





I was responding to someone else. Defending my comments against his. If you don't like that you are free to remove yourself from that line of conversation.



It's not. I share it often.



No need to. You see things your way. You claim to already have been a member and have left. What could LDS possible "show" you to convince you to return? This charge you make is a common taunt from ex-mormons. The whole "make me see why I should return to my LDS faith" when the problem is ex-mormons that post on websites devoted to attacking Mormonism obviously have no true and real intent or desire to "see" the truth and good of the faith they have renounced.

He's right, you guys mock and attack all the time as a means not to discuss Mormonism..

You're starting to sound like Alan..

By the way, I asked you to please explain how Mormons define Born again. Can you please answer.

[Sir]

Originally Posted by glm1978

He's right, you guys mock and attack all the time as a means not to discuss Mormonism..

You're starting to sound like Alan..

See what you did there? You avoided my post that proved that your own guy was actually doing the mocking, not the LDS, in the same post that he was charging the LDS of mocking.

And you, in this post, in claiming that the LDS do the mocking and attacking, just "attacked" one of your own, "Alan", who had nothing to do with this conversation but you felt the need to attack him and throw him under the bus.

That's why we LDS simply have to "LOL". Two of you LDS-critics just showed us that while you charge the LDS for attacking people, you actually do that very thing in the very same posts that you make your accusations against others!!!!

Now, since YOU were once LDS, why don't you explain what being born-again means to a Mormon.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by TheSword99

It's hard to have any real discussions on here because of all the mocking. Then they get mad because we took them seriously when they were actually being sarcastic.

I guess if I were lds and believed I could be a god someday on my very own planet, I would feel above others. If I was always taught that I am a member of the One True Church, I would be smug too.That is why I started the "Fear Of God" thread. I do not see the lds as having this reverence.

To them reverence is being quiet in church.. It has nothing to so with seeing the Greatness of God and our helpless weak place before Him.. That is the reverence they ignore. After all they are gods in embryo.. IHS jim

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Sir

Then maybe you critics ought to stop the mocking.



Nobody is "mad". And what I said wasn't "sarcastic". You misunderstood my comment in the context that it was in. That doesn't mean my comment was sarcastic but rather you misunderstood it.



See? You didn't get very far from accusing LDS of mocking to actually being the mocker yourself.




You are in a forum devoted to attacking others' faith. So who is really the "smug" person who believes he has the truth and the others people are hell-bound?



Obviously in this one little post you made points and then destroyed them all by yourself. Nice ***!

I am SMUG!!! Not because I am so great.. Not because I am a god in embryo. I am smug that My Lord, MY GOD can do all things. He takes the evil hearts of men and recreates them to be a heart like unto His.. Jesus as revealed in the Bible is someone to be SMUG about.. And when I compare Him with me I am totally awe struck.. And that is just with a description, when I stand before Him I will be ****n away by Him greatness. No Self Righteous smugness in that.. That is reserved for those that only look for a Jesus to help them in their own personal climb toward exaltation, and a place as a fellow god in their own creation.. Biblically I don't see any way to be smug about personal righteousness since God see such as filthy rags.. IHS jim

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Sir

See what you did there? You avoided my post that proved that your own guy was actually doing the mocking, not the LDS, in the same post that he was charging the LDS of mocking.

And you, in this post, in claiming that the LDS do the mocking and attacking, just "attacked" one of your own, "Alan", who had nothing to do with this conversation but you felt the need to attack him and throw him under the bus.

That's why we LDS simply have to "LOL". Two of you LDS-critics just showed us that while you charge the LDS for attacking people, you actually do that very thing in the very same posts that you make your accusations against others!!!!

Now, since YOU were once LDS, why don't you explain what being born-again means to a Mormon.

The LDS SMUG attacks started in the revised first vision story found today in JSH in the PofPG.. The addition especially in verse 19 are a clear attack on our Pastors and our churches.. I can find hundreds of attacks by your later 19th and early 20th century "prophets".. And you tell us that we guilty of attacking the LDS people? No, we attack unbiblical teaching and Mormonism is filled with it.. I attack the unbiblical teaching put out there by anyone.. You don't have to be mormon to be in error but it sure helps.. IHS jim

[Sir]

Originally Posted by James Banta

To them reverence is being quiet in church.. It has nothing to so with seeing the Greatness of God and our helpless weak place before Him.. That is the reverence they ignore. After all they are gods in embryo.. IHS jim

See how the critics do the mocking?

Kind of funny that in the same thread, no less than 3 critics of Mormonism mock the LDS while simultaneously complaining that the LDS here are the attackers and mockers.

Originally Posted by James Banta

I am SMUG!!! Not because I am so great.. Not because I am a god in embryo. I am smug that My Lord, MY GOD can do all things. He takes the evil hearts of men and recreates them to be a heart like unto His.. Jesus as revealed in the Bible is someone to be SMUG about.. And when I compare Him with me I am totally awe struck.. And that is just with a description, when I stand before Him I will be ****n away by Him greatness. No Self Righteous smugness in that.. That is reserved for those that only look for a Jesus to help them in their own personal climb toward exaltation, and a place as a fellow god in their own creation.. Biblically I don't see any way to be smug about personal righteousness since God see such as filthy rags.. IHS jim

One critic in this thread called the LDS "smug". You admit to being the smug one.

Thank you for redirecting the attack on Mormons to being a description of yourself.

Originally Posted by James Banta

The LDS SMUG attacks started in the revised first vision story found today in JSH in the PofPG.. The addition especially in verse 19 are a clear attack on our Pastors and our churches.. I can find hundreds of attacks by your later 19th and early 20th century "prophets".. And you tell us that we guilty of attacking the LDS people? No, we attack unbiblical teaching and Mormonism is filled with it.. I attack the unbiblical teaching put out there by anyone.. You don't have to be mormon to be in error but it sure helps.. IHS jim

What do comments from LDS from 180+ years ago have to do with you guys mocking and attacking LDS people today and in this thread?

[James Banta]

[Sir;139691]See how the critics do the mocking?

Kind of funny that in the same thread, no less than 3 critics of Mormonism mock the LDS while simultaneously complaining that the LDS here are the attackers and mockers.

Was this some sort of a correction of what I said? I didn't see one so what I said is correct.. Good to have some ground on which we agree..

One critic in this thread called the LDS "smug". You admit to being the smug one.

You BET I am very smug about the Lordship of Jesus, of HIS righteousness, and Him love and forbearance..

What do comments from LDS from 180+ years ago have to do with you guys mocking and attacking LDS people today and in this thread?

I have no issues with Christian leaders from 200 years ago being stated here as long as the speaker is claiming the ONLY TRUE AUTHORITY from God to make these statements.. When LDS leaders in LDS church history taught in conference that it is required for people to be baptized by Priests of the LDS church in order to gain entrance to the Kingdom of Heaven where the Father rains Haven't I the right to point that teaching out? Of they taught truth the aren't their words as good today as they were then? But what if they taught lies and false doctrine? Then by the authority of Deut 18:20-22 can I not say that those teachers are not to be respected? But that isn't what mormonism has done.. The modern leadership of the LDS church has confirmed that Smith did take women of living men as His wives.. According to Jesus telling us that thinking of adultery is as bad as living in it? And Smith did think about STEALING women from their "worthy" husbands and making them his even if that was in eternity and not in mortality. I think He had relations with all His wives so I said it the way I did for your gullible mind. And Young taught that Adam was our God and not the Father.. Your authority come to you through an adulterer and an idolater.. And yet you come closer to the worship of these men than you do Jesus.. And you put more stock in the word they have taught that agree with modern doctrine than you put in your standard work.. It is shameful that you reject the Word of God some of you saying that it isn't LITERAL.. It is literal and you must be Born Again and that is a birth not a baptism.. Blood is required to purchase salvation, water just doesn't hack it.. IHS jim

[glm1978]

Originally Posted by Sir

See what you did there? You avoided my post that proved that your own guy was actually doing the mocking, not the LDS, in the same post that he was charging the LDS of mocking.

And you, in this post, in claiming that the LDS do the mocking and attacking, just "attacked" one of your own, "Alan", who had nothing to do with this conversation but you felt the need to attack him and throw him under the bus.

That's why we LDS simply have to "LOL". Two of you LDS-critics just showed us that while you charge the LDS for attacking people, you actually do that very thing in the very same posts that you make your accusations against others!!!!

Now, since YOU were once LDS, why don't you explain what being born-again means to a Mormon.

Sir, Time to GROW UP! I am not playing this game. I asked YOU to define what Mormonism says being born again means. You, like all the other LDS on here tried to wiggle your way out and turned around and asked ME to define it.

You guys just cannot defend your faith. Thanks for convincing me that I made the right choice by leaving that church forever.

[glm1978]

Originally Posted by James Banta

To them reverence is being quiet in church.. It has nothing to so with seeing the Greatness of God and our helpless weak place before Him.. That is the reverence they ignore. After all they are gods in embryo.. IHS jim

I can't understand the hate and anger that the mormons have shown on here. When I was LDS we were always taught to show respect to those of other faiths. The LDS church is very quiet because it's filled with folks who are spiritually dead. They claim they are born again and yet can't even tell us what that means because they know they will not get any support from the Scriptures.

[TheSword99]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Was this some sort of a correction of what I said? I didn't see one so what I said is correct.. Good to have some ground on which we agree..



You BET I am very smug about the Lordship of Jesus, of HIS righteousness, and Him love and forbearance..



I have no issues worth Christian leaders from 200 years ago being stated here as long as the speaker is claiming the ONLY TRUE AUTHORITY from God to make these statements.. When LDS leaders in LDS church history taught in conference that it is required for people to be baptized by Priests of the LDS church in order to gain entrance to the Kingdom of Heaven where the Father rains Haven't I the right to point that teaching out? Of they taught truth the aren't their words as good today as they were then? But what if they taught lies and false doctrine? Then by the authority of Deut 18:20-22 can I not say that those teachers are not to be respected? But that isn't what mormonism has done.. The modern leadership of the LDS church has confirmed that Smith did take women of living men as His wives.. According to Jesus telling us that thinking of adultery is as bad as living in it? And Smith did think about STEALING women from their "worthy" husbands and making them his even if that was in eternity and not in mortality. I think He had relations with all His wives so I said it the way I did for your gullible mind. And Young taught that Adam was our God and not the Father.. Your authority come to you through an adulterer and an idolater.. And yet you come closer to the worship of these men than you do Jesus.. And you put more stock in the word they have taught that agree with modern doctrine than you put in your standard work.. It is shameful that you reject the Word of God some of you saying that it isn't LITERAL.. It is literal and you must be Born Again and that is a birth not a baptism.. Blood is required to purchase salvation, water just doesn't hack it.. IHS jim

I can't help but wonder if Joseph Smith had lived to a ripe old age and his successor had remained faithful to all of Smith's teachings, if the lds today would more resemble the flds.

The mormons hate it when we force them to look at their own sordid history. Yet we are not being "critical," but truthful.

[TheSword99]

Originally Posted by Sir

One critic in this thread called the LDS "smug". You admit to being the smug one.

It is smugness to believe you will be a god someday and rule your very own planet, when God said your knee will bow and your tongue will confess Christ as LORD. That is what you and everyone else will be doing, whether above the earth or below. It's God who will get all the glory, not you or I.

You and the other lds are critics of Christianity and lovers of doctrines of men. Your church has exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man.. (Romans 1:23)

You can't even tell us what being born again means. You have absolutely nothing to add to this thread.

[Sir]

Originally Posted by glm1978

Sir, Time to GROW UP! I am not playing this game. I asked YOU to define what Mormonism says being born again means. You, like all the other LDS on here tried to wiggle your way out and turned around and asked ME to define it.

You guys just cannot defend your faith. Thanks for convincing me that I made the right choice by leaving that church forever.

But you were once Mormon. So it seems silly to ask me what Mormonism teaches about something since you were once in the group. It's kind of like a guy who divorces his wife and then asks his ex-wife's husband things about her that he would already have known when he was married to her.

I didn't convince you that leaving the church was the right choice, you are simply looking for reasons to justify doing that. True understandning of gospel doctrine and the Holy Spirit should be enough for someone to know they made the right decisions about their faith, but if it makes you feel better to create reasons to justify your decision that's what you gotta do.

I can't understand the hate and anger that the mormons have shown on here. When I was LDS we were always taught to show respect to those of other faiths.

Ironically, it is the critics like yourself that appear to be angry - looking for reasons to tear down our faith and to justify your own feelings about it. And ironically it is you, the critic, who is hereposting on a forum devoted to tearing down a faith. And yet you want to accuse the LDS of not being respectful of other faiths. Maybe that's why you left the LDS church, because they teach to be respectful of others' faiths and you couldn't live by that.

[Sir]

Originally Posted by TheSword99

It is smugness to believe you will be a god someday and rule your very own planet, when God said your knee will bow and your tongue will confess Christ as LORD. That is what you and everyone else will be doing, whether above the earth or below. It's God who will get all the glory, not you or I.

You and the other lds are critics of Christianity and lovers of doctrines of men. Your church has exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man.. (Romans 1:23)

You can't even tell us what being born again means. You have absolutely nothing to add to this thread.

Sure I can.

But in your post you show us that you don't really care what LDS believe, you simply want to attack them and mock them and to 'tell' us what you think we believe.Your eyes, ears, and mind are closed to anything that will go against your preconceived ideas.

[TheSword99]

Originally Posted by Sir

Sure I can.

But in your post you show us that you don't really care what LDS believe, you simply want to attack them and mock them and to 'tell' us what you think we believe.Your eyes, ears, and mind are closed to anything that will go against your preconceived ideas.

The fact is you have an impossible gospel. You are unable to obey all the laws, ordinances and commandments of the lds church. You don't even have ***urance of where you will end up when you die. Your church teaches it will be one of three places. Yet two of those kingdoms of glory do not even include the presence of (or access to) God the Father.The Scriptures tells us that spending eternity separated from the presence God is not salvation; it is ****ation.

I do care what Mormons believe. Why else do you think I pray for you guys every single night. Which is probably something you would never do.

[TheSword99]

Originally Posted by Sir

Sure I can.

.

Ok, then tell us how you define being born again.

[Sir]

Originally Posted by TheSword99

I do care what Mormons believe. Why else do you think I pray for you guys every single night. Which is probably something you would never do.

While I understand the need to make a dig at us LDS (and yet we are being accused of being hateful and angry...lol), I will have you know that I DO pray for us guys every night!

[Sir]

Originally Posted by TheSword99

Ok, then tell us how you define being born again.

Change of heart.
Recognition of Jesus as our Savior and our need for Him and His atonement.
A desire to follow Him.
A willingness to mourn with those who mourn.
Comfort those that stand in need of comfort.
To follow the example of Jesus and be baptized for the remission of sins.
To receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
To place our faith in Jesus, obey his commandments, and to endure to the end.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Sir

Change of heart.
Recognition of Jesus as our Savior and our need for Him and His atonement.
A desire to follow Him.
A willingness to mourn with those who mourn.
Comfort those that stand in need of comfort.
To follow the example of Jesus and be baptized for the remission of sins.
To receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
To place our faith in Jesus, obey his commandments, and to endure to the end.

Look at each of these "requirements" lets see who is responsible to complete them.
Change of heart. This one I am not sure of.. Are you teaching we must change our hearts or is God doing it?

Recognition of Jesus as our Savior and our need for Him and His atonement. Yes this is something we must do.. A work of our own will..

A desire to follow Him. Again clearly something we must do

A willingness to mourn with those who mourn. Yes this is man's work to accomplish

Comfort those that stand in need of comfort. Something we must do..

To follow the example of Jesus and be baptized for the remission of sins. This is clearly a work of a man invented law

To receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. The Holy Spirit isn't given as it was at Pentecost? We have to receive it? Let me guess from the hands of men, not from God directly..

To place our faith in Jesus, obey his commandments, and to endure to the end. We need to have faith, We need to obey, we must endure.. Doesn't God do anything?


That is what I have been saying all along sir.. Mormons, at least you, don't believe that a person can be born again in the world.. The requirement to keep the Lord's commandments and endure to the end in all the requirements you have listed makes being Born Again in this life impossible.. How else could you endure to the end if you were at the end?

John 3:3-7
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

The p***age teaches that we are to be BORN of the water and the Spirit.. Not baptized of water and Spirit.. This is a second birth. The first one of water, a natural birth, the second of Spirit a Spiritual birth.. There is no keeping commandments in these requirements, no enduring to the end. These are made invented requirements for the free gift of rebirth offered through faith in Jesus alone. This p***age goes on to confirm that in verses 15, and 16.. No where is there one word of anything we can do to be born of the Spirit.. It is all done by God for those that believe.. That can and is done daily By God for those that are being saved..

Do you also believe that it is the believer that changed his heart? Again the scripture teaches that that also is God's work..

Psalms 51:10
Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.

Even the change of our hearts is a work of God and has nothing to do with our efforts.. You can stop exalting men and turn and see who is already exalted.. JESUS.. IHS jim

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by glm1978

I can't understand the hate and anger that the mormons have shown on here. When I was LDS we were always taught to show respect to those of other faiths. The LDS church is very quiet because it's filled with folks who are spiritually dead. They claim they are born again and yet can't even tell us what that means because they know they will not get any support from the Scriptures.

YES! as I have shown here the mormon idea of being Born Again is everything they must DO.. But what does a birth either natural of Spiritual have to do with the new born's efforts? Even if a baby is born dead it is still born.. And what effort could a dead child make to accomplish it's birth.. A child born into this world has nothing to say about it's birth, it had no power to accomplish it's birth or prevent it.. The spiritual birth is the same way.. We who have been chosen of God had nothing to do with our spiritual birth.. It was 100% the work and effort of God. We can't obey enough commandments. We can be baptized enough, and we can't endure to the end in our own purity and call it sufficient.

One of mormonism greatest weaknesses is that it teaches that very thing.. It is a soul destroying teaching invented by evil men to control their minds and hearts. Leading then ever away from Jesus and the liberty He has given us to Love Him and toward the glorification of men.. IHS jim

[Sir]

Originally Posted by James Banta

We who have been chosen of God had nothing to do with our spiritual birth.. It was 100% the work and effort of God.IHS jim

Well, okie dokie....you take issue with everything I wrote.

You claim that being spiritually born-again is only something that we have to wait for God to do 100% for us.

So instead of attacking and demeaning the LDS, why not go ask God why he hasn't chosen us and what he is waiting for to make us spiritually reborn. Looks like you are claiming it is all God's fault, not ours.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Sir

Well, okie dokie....you take issue with everything I wrote.

You claim that being spiritually born-again is only something that we have to wait for God to do 100% for us.

So instead of attacking and demeaning the LDS, why not go ask God why he hasn't chosen us and what he is waiting for to make us spiritually reborn. Looks like you are claiming it is all God's fault, not ours.

I have He told me this:

Matthew 22:1-14
And Jesus answered and spake unto them again by parables, and said,
The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,
And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.
Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.
But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:
And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.
But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.
Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.
Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.
So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.
And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
For many are called, but few are chosen.

God wants us all but still knows that all too many in His omniscient knowledge will not ever submit to Him but demand that they gain salvation their own way and will not submit to His Way.. That is exactly what you said your meaning of being Born Again is your way and not His way.. IHS jim


BTW I wouldn't correct you ALL the time if you weren't wrong ALL the time..

[Sir]

Originally Posted by James Banta

God wants us all but still knows that all too many in His omniscient knowledge will not ever submit to Him but demand that they gain salvation their own way and will not submit to His Way..

If being spiritually reborn is 100% of God's doing, as you claimed above, then if people do not submit to God then it is God's fault.

You can't have it both ways.

That is exactly what you said your meaning of being Born Again is your way and not His way.. IHS jim

Actually, people can read for themselves what "exactly" I said (the beauty of written language), and it isn't what you wanted to interpret it to be.

BTW I wouldn't correct you ALL the time if you weren't wrong ALL the time..

Oh....OH.....HA!....ZING!!!!......so clever, you think you are.

Here's a BTW of my own:

BTW, it is funny that you had to add an "attack" on me, considering this is the thread where the LDS are called the attackers and yet it is the LDS-critics that seem to be the ones who cannot post without adding a little jab. Interesting.

[TheSword99]

Originally Posted by Sir

Change of heart.
Recognition of Jesus as our Savior and our need for Him and His atonement.
A desire to follow Him.
A willingness to mourn with those who mourn.
Comfort those that stand in need of comfort.
To follow the example of Jesus and be baptized for the remission of sins.
To receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
To place our faith in Jesus, obey his commandments, and to endure to the end.

Thank you for answering my question. Maybe now we can all engage in serious discussions.

According to the lds 3rd Article of Faith, salvation is conditional, based upon “obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel." Doesn't this make salvation not about being "born again" in the sense that someone has a change of heart and a personal encounter with Jesus Christ, but rather that a person follows certain behavior steps?

When Christians ask if one is born-again, we mean nothing less than the fullness of salvation. The Holy Bible tells us that we can know right now if we are acceptable to the Lord:

“And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.” (1 John 5:11-13)

How do you explain that the Ethiopian eunuch became born again, yet there's nothing about his obedience to all these laws and ordinances of some church. When the Ethiopian asked what would hinder him from being baptized, Philip the evangelist gave only one requirement: "If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest."

How do you explain that according to Mormonism, two of the kingdoms of glory do not even include the presence of (or access to) God the Father. For Christians, spending eternity separated from the presence God is not salvation; it is ****ation.