Is Being Born-Again Irrelevant?

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by jdjhere

I don't mock God and I KNOW I am saved, Sir, but I am eternally grateful to Jesus Christ for saving me and what He suffered FOR ME on the cross. He offered it and I accepted it. I don't mock God, I am only grateful for Eternal Life and that Jesus Christ loved me enough to do it. It only humbles me and makes me love Him.

Regardless of what people claim--here is the doctrine that Christ taught:


John 5:28-29----King James Version (KJV)


28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of ****ation.



Christ taught that all men--following death--will be judged according to works--and that for life or ****ation.

And that enduring to the end is a requirement in order to be saved:


Matthew 10:22----King James Version (KJV)


22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

[TheSword99]

Originally Posted by Sir

No, people who falsly claim to be securely saved right now are the mockers of God. Many "Christians" fall away who once said they were "saved", but the only excuse that you can give is that "they just weren't really saved in the first place". You give yourself a false sense of security and then mock God by thinking that once you've uttered the words "I believe in Jesus" that nothing you do after that will have any impact on your salvation.

That's the real mockery.

Where does the Holy Bible say one can lose his salvation? Once were his, Jesus said nothing can snatch us from his hand. As for false sense of security, I guess you don't understand the scripture p***age I gave you.

[TheSword99]

Originally Posted by Sir

That is your opinion. As a Mormon, I can safely say that my beliefs and views are not what you said above.

Then why don't you share what your beliefs and views are. Do mormons believe they could go to hell? Is it possible? Or do they not believe in the Holy Bible's teaching on hell? Do you believe you will automatically go to some level of heaven? Is that the lds salvation that all will be resurrected?

Two of these kingdoms of glory do not even include the presence of (or access to) God the Father. For Christians, spending eternity separated from God's presence is not salvation; it is ****ation. Which is what the Scriptures teaches. You guys don't even have ***urance of exactly where you will end up. Being born again means nothing less than the fullness of salvation. We Christians have ***urance that we are acceptable to the Lord. Whoever has the Son, has life. (1 John 5:11-13)

[glm1978]

Originally Posted by Sir

That is your opinion. As a Mormon, I can safely say that my beliefs and views are not what you said above.



Seems like a non-sequitur. But here is a response: the LDS church doesn't clam to be the fastest growing church, but it is usually listed in the top 10 of the lists of fastest growing churches.

Secondly, if there are roughly 14 million members of the LDS church, that would be MUCH fewer than the hundreds of millions of other Christians. So you are actually making the argument FOR Mormonism in your attempted attack above.

Since Mormonism teaches that non LDS will have a chance to hear the Mormon gospel after death, wouldn't that mean many would get "saved" and end up in one of the three heavens? Seems like hell will be nearly empty. But the LDS does not believe in the biblical hell. So, how is it that many are headed there?

The bible is true, hell is real and many will end up there.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Sir

Yours is a case of heads I win, tails you lose scenerio. That's why it is pointless to debate it with you. You make the claim that only God can allow someone to accept Him by giving him His Holy Spirit. But then you say that if God DOESN'T choose that person to be saved then it is the fault of the person for not choosing God.

This isn't judging God, as you are quick to accuse. It is pointing out the flaw in the theology you are peddling. One must choose God to be saved, but one cannot choose God unless God chooses him. So your own theology means that God created the majority of his human creations simply to cast them into Hell and burn in torment forever.

I didn't say that God doesn't chose us.. He does based on knowing that we will accept His grace and receive the life Jesus offers all men based on His work completed on the cross.. Maybe you should respond to me any more you don't seem able to understand the truth I tell you about who and what God is.. If you can't understand that God is not a being locked into time and He actually knows the beginning and the end because He is present is all time then you aren't able to understand the truth about what I AM that I AM is all about.. If you can't understand that you can't know God and you deny yourself eternal life:

John 17:3
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

So until you are able to at least understand the timeless nature of God you should even speak about Him.. Even our Jr Church children can understand this simple attribute of God.. IHS jim

[Sir]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Maybe you should respond to me any more you don't seem able to understand the truth I tell you about who and what God is..

Maybe I "should"?

So until you are able to at least understand the timeless nature of God you should even speak about Him

I "should"?

If your position is that people "should[n't]" speak about things that they do not understand, you would be left mute and we shouldn't see another post from you ever again.

[Sir]

Originally Posted by TheSword99

Did I not apologize and you ignored the apology? Some of us are not above admitting when we make a mistake. However, you do ask for it by your frequent mocking, sarcasm, LOLing and failure to address the OP and discuss Mormonism...

What are you talking about? You already replied to this post and apologized for your mistake. That was on 11/19. Not sure why you are responding to it again.

Also, I'm not sure what it is you claim I am "asking for". I'm asking for you to misrepresent me? That seems to be where the flow of this is going, and that doesn't make much sense either.

You made a mistake and apologized.

Nothing more really needed to be said.

[glm1978]

Originally Posted by Sir

What are you talking about? You already replied to this post and apologized for your mistake. That was on 11/19. Not sure why you are responding to it again.

Also, I'm not sure what it is you claim I am "asking for". I'm asking for you to misrepresent me? That seems to be where the flow of this is going, and that doesn't make much sense either.

You made a mistake and apologized.

Nothing more really needed to be said.

Are you born again?

[Sir]

Originally Posted by glm1978

Are you born again?

Of course.

[glm1978]

Originally Posted by Sir

Of course.

Then please explain how the LDS defines being "born again."

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Sir

Of course.

You Are???? Have you already "endured to the end in righteousness".. When I saw this included in a list of what LDS believes makes a person Born Again it almost made me cry.. Now here you are claiming to be righteous in your own efforts.. Soon again because you are so righteous in your life by your own actions I suspect because I claim no righteousness through my own actions, you will call me self righteous as many LDS already have.. Are you sure you have been Born Again? That you have already endured to the end in righteousness?

Is this not what you said about being Born Again?

Change of heart.
Recognition of Jesus as our Savior and our need for Him and His atonement.
A desire to follow Him.
A willingness to mourn with those who mourn.
Comfort those that stand in need of comfort.
To follow the example of Jesus and be baptized for the remission of sins.
To receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Change of heart.
Recognition of Jesus as our Savior and our need for Him and His atonement.
A desire to follow Him.
A willingness to mourn with those who mourn.
Comfort those that stand in need of comfort.
To follow the example of Jesus and be baptized for the remission of sins.
To receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
To place our faith in Jesus, obey his commandments, and to endure to the end.

Did you say that it is required to place our faith in Jesus, obey his commandments, and to endure to the end. When did you do this in it's completion? If that is a requirement, as you stated then you are not yet born again..

IHS jim